2009 "clean diesel" TDI on biodiesel?

Kai

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Location
Kailua, Hawaii
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI wagon manual; 2006 Jetta TDI sedan manual
If you have a 2009 "clean diesel" TDI and have been running biodiesel, would you please recount your experiences? Or lead me to a thread where this has been discussed already?
How many miles on bio? What concentration? B5? B20? B100? What mpg? Any ill-effects?
 

Kai

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Location
Kailua, Hawaii
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI wagon manual; 2006 Jetta TDI sedan manual
Response from Pacific Biodiesel, Inc.

We do not recommend running the new "clean diesel" TDI on 100% biodiesel. It should be ok on B20, but the incompatibility of the '09 VW TDI with B100 was actually a subject of a presentation at the Sustainable Biodiesel Summit in February. Wish we could get these OEMs on board with biofuels!
Mahalo for your continued support of Hawaii's sustainable biodiesel,
Pacific Biodiesel, Inc.
 

velociT

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 10, 2006
Location
Not Austin, TX
TDI
06 Jetta TDI *sold*
Post injection for the purpose of regens will cause oil contamination.

If you choose to use bio in an 09, I would recommend 5K OCI's and UOA sampling at every change.
 

ikendu

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Location
Iowa
TDI
2003 Golf Indigo Blue
It is too bad.

I've really liked my '03 Golf TDI (which I bought new for the express purpose of running 100% biodiesel). It has allowed me to great mileage and use a renewable fuel all at the same time. I was really looking forward to enjoying one of the new bodies. Now... I will just keep on running my '03. Once an affordable electric drive vehicle (PHEV or EV) is on the market, I suppose I will end up parting ways with VWs and biodiesel.

Ah well, it has been a good 6 year "ride". All things change.
 

Kai

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Location
Kailua, Hawaii
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI wagon manual; 2006 Jetta TDI sedan manual
ikendu said:
It is too bad.
I've really liked my '03 Golf TDI (which I bought new for the express purpose of running 100% biodiesel). It has allowed me to great mileage and use a renewable fuel all at the same time. I was really looking forward to enjoying one of the new bodies. Now... I will just keep on running my '03. Once an affordable electric drive vehicle (PHEV or EV) is on the market, I suppose I will end up parting ways with VWs and biodiesel.
Ah well, it has been a good 6 year "ride". All things change.
I am with you ikendu 100%. I actually ordered an 2009 Jetta SportWagen TDI which I am not going to take because I learned belatedly that the new "clean diesel" cannot run B100 successfully. Even B20, as I understand it, runs a risk. We have a 2004 Jetta TDI wagon and I looked forward to the new wagon, the new body style and upgrages, and am disappointed that I can't have one because of this.
As an alternative, I may look for a 2006 TDI Jetta sedan, which is the new body style with the older PD motor which will run B100 like our 2004. Pretty hard to find, though.
While VW is gaining new customers with their "clean diesel" technology, it is also losing some old loyal ones like us.
aloha, Kai
 

nicklockard

Torque Dorque
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Location
Arizona
TDI
SOLD 2010 Touareg Tdi w/factory Tow PCKG
Kai said:
I am with you ikendu 100%. I actually ordered an 2009 Jetta SportWagen TDI which I am not going to take because I learned belatedly that the new "clean diesel" cannot run B100 successfully. Even B20, as I understand it, runs a risk. We have a 2004 Jetta TDI wagon and I looked forward to the new wagon, the new body style and upgrages, and am disappointed that I can't have one because of this.
As an alternative, I may look for a 2006 TDI Jetta sedan, which is the new body style with the older PD motor which will run B100 like our 2004. Pretty hard to find, though.
While VW is gaining new customers with their "clean diesel" technology, it is also losing some old loyal ones like us.
aloha, Kai
As an aside, I'd be wary of pursuing a PD. They have bad lifters, bad cams, get worse mileage, and have ultra-sensitive ceramic glow plugs known to break if you sneeze. I wouldn't touch a PD with a ten foot pole, personally. PD was a technological mistake and dead end sadly.
 

deezelpower

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Location
Martha Lake, WA
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI, 2015 Audi Q7 TDI
In re: to PD's, I really dislike posts like this, which unfairly compares us who take care of our cars to those who neglect them. Please stop this.
 

nicklockard

Torque Dorque
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Location
Arizona
TDI
SOLD 2010 Touareg Tdi w/factory Tow PCKG
deezelpower said:
In re: to PD's, I really dislike posts like this, which unfairly compares us who take care of our cars to those who neglect them. Please stop this.
It has nothing to do with owner maintenance. Many of the ceramic glow plugs have broken, and many a lifter has failed for members who meticulously follow the oil requirements and keep completely up to date on maintenance. I don't want to start an argument and I realize you love your Tdi. I just thought it important to point out to the silent lurkers who may not know much about the different engine variations of Tdi technology that the PD is an platform with several known design problems. Yours might last 10 years. Who knows? But the problems exist and they are not owner-specific. Read up on the repair/maintenance sections and you'll see they are wide-spread. If you want to continue the discussion I'll split this section off and leave a pointer to its new home in Tdi101.

-moderator.
 

highender

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
Location
Northern California
TDI
2012 Jetta TDI
Kai said:
I am with you ikendu 100%. I actually ordered an 2009 Jetta SportWagen TDI which I am not going to take because I learned belatedly that the new "clean diesel" cannot run B100 successfully. Even B20, as I understand it, runs a risk. We have a 2004 Jetta TDI wagon and I looked forward to the new wagon, the new body style and upgrages, and am disappointed that I can't have one because of this.
As an alternative, I may look for a 2006 TDI Jetta sedan, which is the new body style with the older PD motor which will run B100 like our 2004. Pretty hard to find, though.
While VW is gaining new customers with their "clean diesel" technology, it is also losing some old loyal ones like us.
aloha, Kai

Kai, you may want to consider a 2000 to 2003 TDI , which will run B100 with less problems.
 

Kai

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Location
Kailua, Hawaii
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI wagon manual; 2006 Jetta TDI sedan manual
We have owned a PD since 2004 and have run mostly B100 and some B20 and occasionally petrodiesel. Only two problems over five years: the fuel pump broke about about 12k miles and was replaced. And, yes, we did have one glow plug fail about one week before the warranty expired. VW replaced it.
I'm looking now at a 2005 Beetle TDI 5-speed manual with 18k miles, which should be the exact same engine as we have in our Jetta. If I could find an earlier TDI with such low miles and so well taken care of, I would consider it.
Thanks for all the helpful feedback. Still disappointed not to be able to buy a new Jetta SportWagen!
 

Windjammer

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2006
Location
Cinti, OH
TDI
MK4 & Mk5
Kai said:
I am with you ikendu 100%. I actually ordered an 2009 Jetta SportWagen TDI which I am not going to take because I learned belatedly that the new "clean diesel" cannot run B100 successfully. Even B20, as I understand it, runs a risk. We have a 2004 Jetta TDI wagon and I looked forward to the new wagon, the new body style and upgrages, and am disappointed that I can't have one because of this.
As an alternative, I may look for a 2006 TDI Jetta sedan, which is the new body style with the older PD motor which will run B100 like our 2004. Pretty hard to find, though.
While VW is gaining new customers with their "clean diesel" technology, it is also losing some old loyal ones like us.
aloha, Kai
Please stop the madness. First the panoroof then the color now it's biodiesel. Will it ever stop.
 

kcfoxie

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Location
Raleigh, NC
TDI
'12 6-spd JSW
There was a manufacturing defect that bothered what seems to be late BEWs and early BRMs.

The chances of this guy getting a bad one are slim. Even so it's documted, $3k will fix it for good.

Can we let this dead horse decompose? In 10 years people will STILL same the same thing that the cam is gonna blow up, when in that time frame the cars will be on cam #2 or on the original cam that NEVER had a problem because VW corrected the manufacturing error mid-production.

If you want to do some good, prove that 10% of production failed and get a class action lawsuit going. It's not easy, actually its damn near impossible on a small production run of less than 20,000 cars (HOW many BRMs exist? I'd venture to say less than 20,000)... check in with LOST about the two Jeep CRDs that caught fire due to the poorly designed fuel filter heater, and see what the saftety admins had to say about forcing a recall....

But, really, the A5 has so much more to offer (in room and comfort) over the BEW PD that it's senseless to say they are bad. That's like saying any Mac with an Intel is bad. If you want to stay stuck in the past be my guest but stop misinforming others.
 

kcfoxie

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Location
Raleigh, NC
TDI
'12 6-spd JSW
Kai said:
We have owned a PD since 2004 and have run mostly B100 and some B20 and occasionally petrodiesel. Only two problems over five years: the fuel pump broke about about 12k miles and was replaced. And, yes, we did have one glow plug fail about one week before the warranty expired. VW replaced it.
I'm looking now at a 2005 Beetle TDI 5-speed manual with 18k miles, which should be the exact same engine as we have in our Jetta. If I could find an earlier TDI with such low miles and so well taken care of, I would consider it.
Thanks for all the helpful feedback. Still disappointed not to be able to buy a new Jetta SportWagen!
Glowplugs are wear items. How did you get VW to replace a wear item? That's like getting free brake pads at the end of the warranty because they are worn. I'm just curious.....
 

Kai

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Location
Kailua, Hawaii
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI wagon manual; 2006 Jetta TDI sedan manual
kcfoxie said:
Glowplugs are wear items. How did you get VW to replace a wear item? That's like getting free brake pads at the end of the warranty because they are worn. I'm just curious.....
An engine light came on and we took the car in. Maybe it was the glow plug and more in that particular cylinder. Sorry I can't remember and I'm definitely not a mechanic. Anyway, they fixed the problem under warranty.
 

CsTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Location
Baltimore, Maryland
TDI
'10 TouaregTDI, '15 JettaTDI
nicklockard said:
It has nothing to do with owner maintenance. Many of the ceramic glow plugs have broken, and many a lifter has failed for members who meticulously follow the oil requirements and keep completely up to date on maintenance. I don't want to start an argument and I realize you love your Tdi. I just thought it important to point out to the silent lurkers who may not know much about the different engine variations of Tdi technology that the PD is an platform with several known design problems. Yours might last 10 years. Who knows? But the problems exist and they are not owner-specific. Read up on the repair/maintenance sections and you'll see they are wide-spread. If you want to continue the discussion I'll split this section off and leave a pointer to its new home in Tdi101.

-moderator.
I have a PD. My only complaint is that it takes special oil. In terms of the problems outline above, I have had none of those with over 105,000 miles on the clock. The ceramic breakage is overstated, however the fear of breakage is high. One of my ceramic glows burned out around 80k, so I changed all of them with... ceramic. the steel plugs are an upgrade and burn hotter, and quicker allowing smoother cold starts and lower emissions. they also require a higher voltage ECU flash. In terms of the fragility of ceramic GPs, if they are screwed in at the wrong angle or are defective, you do run the risk of fracturing it. However, I would use the term fragile loosely, I dropped one that i was removing on the driveway and it did not break. While I endorse VW providing an enhanced glow plug upgrade, many manufacturers since use ceramic glows and or course, the PDs that used NGK ceramic glowplugs were not updated

just my 2 cents.
 

Zlartibartfast

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Location
Deep in the Heart of Texas
TDI
SOLD 2009 Jetta Sportwagen
Kai said:
If you have a 2009 "clean diesel" TDI and have been running biodiesel, would you please recount your experiences? ...
How many miles on bio?
approx 5K, varying the percentage (car has 7.5K total on it now)
What concentration? B5? B20? B100?
5%, 10%, 25%, 50%
What mpg? Any ill-effects?
Average of about 40MPG (highest 52, lowest 36). Up to 20%, things seemed normal. 5% it started to run smoother than 0%, but for the short time I ran 50% it was not right - mileage went down to around 37 and I think the DPF/regen cycle went out of whack. I seemd that it would want to regen every time I drove for more than 15 minutes. After I ran that out I went through 2 fill-ups with no Bio and it sorted itself out. I'm stickin' to 5% from now on. The data suggests 5% works as a good lubricant, and the car runs fine, and VW accepts that much to be within operating limits.
 

vwrobert51

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
Maui Hawaii
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon
i have a 2004 tdi wagon from new, has 80k and have run correct oil and used ULSD , perf: every required service was done ,never had a single problem .
 

tdisky

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Location
Middletown, Rhode Island
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL (hers)
Don't believe everything you hear about the PDs. My former 2004 was fabulous. A widely respected TDI guru told me "your injectors are really good" when he had it on VAG-COM. That was running B20-B100, and driving like I stole it.

Like any advanced technology, there are failures, but nothing like some posters claim. Is this new? Because you'd think there'd be a lot more PD cam/glow plug/windshield washer fluid container lid failure threads.

Sorry, but I can't help but think it's the old "if it isn't like mine, it can't be good." The ALH was replaced by the PD for a reason, likewise the PD and CBEA. So, do your homework, and don't be afraid of the 2004-2006 TDIs. And have fun!
 

darkscout

Grammar Scout
Joined
May 28, 2006
Location
Michigan
TDI
2003 Golf
deezelpower said:
In re: to PD's, I really dislike posts like this, which unfairly compares us who take care of our cars to those who neglect them. Please stop this.
You mean neglect them by running a non suggested B100 in them?
 

Sprocket

Sprockette's hubby
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Location
MI
TDI
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Eco Diesel, 2005 Passat Silverstone Grey, 1996 Passat Storm Grey
CsTDI said:
I have a PD. My only complaint is that it takes special oil. In terms of the problems outline above, I have had none of those with over 105,000 miles on the clock. The ceramic breakage is overstated, however the fear of breakage is high. One of my ceramic glows burned out around 80k, so I changed all of them with... ceramic. the steel plugs are an upgrade and burn hotter, and quicker allowing smoother cold starts and lower emissions. they also require a higher voltage ECU flash. In terms of the fragility of ceramic GPs, if they are screwed in at the wrong angle or are defective, you do run the risk of fracturing it. However, I would use the term fragile loosely, I dropped one that i was removing on the driveway and it did not break. While I endorse VW providing an enhanced glow plug upgrade, many manufacturers since use ceramic glows and or course, the PDs that used NGK ceramic glowplugs were not updated

just my 2 cents.
The ceramic plugs are 7v the new steel design are 5v. I've recently had mine changed and had to have the ECU re-flashed to lessen the voltage on the 05 Passat. I'm assuming they are the same for the Jetta's. If not, please let me know.
 

boutmuet

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Location
Long Beach, CA
TDI
2015 BMW 328d
Its ironic the cleaning mechanisms required for stricter environmental emissions hinders the cars ability to use bio.
 
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