2009 Battery Drainage Problem

nsmiller

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Location
Story City, IA
TDI
2009 CR
Hi all,

My 2009 TDI has a parasitic drain coming from somewhere. I have read the VW tech bulletin about how to test for parasitic drains. I'm a MS student so my time to perform such a test while waiting 2-3 hours is limited.

Here's what I've done so far:

1. Experienced first dead battery condition.
2. Took 1 year old battery back to Advanced Auto, they charged and it tested good. They then performed a parasitic drain test on my TDI (not per the bulletin). We just closed all doors and latches while hooked up to their machine and waited for the display to go out (30 seconds) and it was pulling about 0.5 Amps.
3. The next time I started my TDI was 1 week later (I ride my motorcycle most days), and it started without any problem. I drove it about 20 miles and shut it off. I came back out to my TDI about 2 hours later and it would barely crank, not enough to start.

I suspect I have some component not going to sleep mode intermittently which is why my battery was able to last 1 week no problem but then could not last 2 hours.

I have scanned my computer with VCDS and cleared all fault codes. The only fault code that immediately returns is related to the fact that Satellite radio does not have a current subscription so it can't communicate with the tuner. My suspicion based on reading other threads is the problem may be radio related, but I don't think the satellite subscription issue should be causing this (Can anyone confirm?). Can anyone point me to some most likely culprits to help save me some time? If the radio is the culprit, what is the solution? New radio?

Thanks in advance for your help.
 

Vince Waldon

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
TDI
2001 ALH Jetta, 2003 ALH Wagon, 2005 BEW Wagon
Not an answer to your exact question, but since you've read the TSB you know how simple this is: 5 minutes with a multimeter reading the voltage drop across the fuses on the fuse panel and you will have likely tracked down exactly where the drain is coming from.

Just my opinion, but tracking down internet guesses of likely suspects, and swapping out those suspects to see if it fixes your problem could take more time in the end? And could also be more expensive. :)

Also note that, per the TSB, it can take a couple hours for the various modules to go to sleep. This means the parasitic drain test your shop did after 30 seconds is probably not of much help unfortunately. Work on your thesis while the car is going to sleep?

There's really no shortcut here, unless you like wild goose chases. :) :)
 
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jetlagmech

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2009
Location
Toledo, WA
TDI
2010 jetta
what other fault codes did you clear??

The radio not going to sleep is one of the most common problems, but so is some auto parts stores installing the wrong battery. the diesel engine battery is a different rating than the gas engine battery for the same car.

try disconnecting the radio for a while and see if the drain stops, don't just pull the fuse, there are 2 fuses for the radio I believe. one hot and one switched. check youtube for how to pull the radio out to disconnect the plugs in back.

have a jump pack with you so not to get stranded. And stop and verify the correct battery is installed. check a few times for correct charging voltage if it seems intermittent. might have a alternator getting ready to go kaput. if none of this works then might have to take some time and follow the VW troubleshooting guide.

hope your not one of those people that cant live without your car tunes. I have that problem with cartoons.
 

JSWTDI09

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2009 JSW TDI (gone but not forgotten)
have a jump pack with you so not to get stranded. And stop and verify the correct battery is installed.
My battery died this week. In my experience one of those jump pack batteries is not powerful enough to start a TDI if your battery is really dead. I had to call AAA yesterday, they tried to use a jump pack to start my car - no luck. Then he hooked up real jumper cables to his truck and it would still not start my car. He had to put his truck and the jump pack in parallel and the engine finally fired up. These CR engines take a lot of current to run the starter and the glow plugs at the same time. Some batteries and many jumper cables can't handle that current draw. I now have a new battery in my car (paid for with my dealership goodwill card).

hope your not one of those people that cant live without your car tunes. I have that problem with cartoons.
:D:D

Have Fun!

Don
 

nsmiller

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Location
Story City, IA
TDI
2009 CR
Also note that, per the TSB, it can take a couple hours for the various modules to go to sleep. This means the parasitic drain test your shop did after 30 seconds is probably not of much help unfortunately. Work on your thesis while the car is going to sleep?
Yes, the test was done by the guys at Advanced Auto trying to help figure out the problem (Partially because I was accusing them of selling me a junk battery which is less than 1 year old). Of course the guys working at parts stores are idiots who think they know it all, and at this point the problem had just started so I had not yet read the TSB.

I'll investigate what seems to be drawing the current at the fuses using my multimeter, but I'm concerned this may be more difficult since the problem seems to be intermittent.
 

nsmiller

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Location
Story City, IA
TDI
2009 CR
what other fault codes did you clear??

The radio not going to sleep is one of the most common problems, but so is some auto parts stores installing the wrong battery. the diesel engine battery is a different rating than the gas engine battery for the same car.

The codes I cleared were as follows:

1. Exhaust Pressure Control Valve Stuck Open-Intermittent
-An issue I've been aware of coming and going for a while. I've been spraying the exhaust valve with GM Heat Valve Lubricant to try to loosen it up.

2. Auto HVAC Supply Voltage B+ Lower Limit Exceeded Intermittent

3. Instruments Function Limitation due to Under-Voltage, Lower Limit Exceeded Intermittent

4. Electric Window Motor; Driver Side; No or Incorrect Basic Setting/ Adaptation -Intermittent

5. Radio Supply Voltage Terminal 30 Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

6. Digital Radio Tuner Not Enabled/Activated

All other systems had no fault codes found during auto-scan.
 

JSWTDI09

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2009 JSW TDI (gone but not forgotten)
Yes, the test was done by the guys at Advanced Auto trying to help figure out the problem (Partially because I was accusing them of selling me a junk battery which is less than 1 year old). Of course the guys working at parts stores are idiots who think they know it all, and at this point the problem had just started so I had not yet read the TSB.
I have learned (the hard way) to only buy batteries for a TDI from a VW dealer. Most aftermarket batteries (even the recommended ones) are not up to the task of properly working in our cars. When my first battery died, I bought the recommended replacement from Sam's Club. It only started my car reliably for a few months. It had a high enough CCA rating but it did not have the reserve capacity to maintain all of the always on electronics and still start the car after a week of sitting unused. The proper battery from VW worked perfectly.

Have Fun!

Don
 

narongc73

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
VA/OH
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
They do work. You just have a really weak one or one that's not fully charged. My batt wouldn't even crank a bit, hooked my little batt pack and started right up. YMMV
My battery died this week. In my experience one of those jump pack batteries is not powerful enough to start a TDI if your battery is really dead. I had to call AAA yesterday, they tried to use a jump pack to start my car - no luck. Then he hooked up real jumper cables to his truck and it would still not start my car. He had to put his truck and the jump pack in parallel and the engine finally fired up. These CR engines take a lot of current to run the starter and the glow plugs at the same time. Some batteries and many jumper cables can't handle that current draw. I now have a new battery in my car (paid for with my dealership goodwill card).



:D:D

Have Fun!

Don
 

Vince Waldon

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
TDI
2001 ALH Jetta, 2003 ALH Wagon, 2005 BEW Wagon
I'll investigate what seems to be drawing the current at the fuses using my multimeter, but I'm concerned this may be more difficult since the problem seems to be intermittent.
Intermittent problems are a pain to track down, no doubt. Keep with it...you'll figure it out!
 

tactdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2005.5 Jetta
Do the 2009 cars have the drivers wiring harness issue with broken wires?

On my 2005.5, I thought my electrical drainage issue was the radio, replaced the radio, with no effect. Found the drivers harness wires in the
rubber boot from the door jam to the door had broken wires, replaced
the drivers door harness, which seems to have fixed the problem.
 

nsmiller

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Location
Story City, IA
TDI
2009 CR
I have learned (the hard way) to only buy batteries for a TDI from a VW dealer. Most aftermarket batteries (even the recommended ones) are not up to the task of properly working in our cars. When my first battery died, I bought the recommended replacement from Sam's Club. It only started my car reliably for a few months. It had a high enough CCA rating but it did not have the reserve capacity to maintain all of the always on electronics and still start the car after a week of sitting unused. The proper battery from VW worked perfectly.

Have Fun!

Don

I am afraid of this. I could spend hours trying to track down a problem when in reality I just need a new battery. Of course, I don't want to spend a bunch of money on a new battery if I have a problem with some system going to sleep. And of course Advanced Auto won't give me a refund or replacement so long as the battery they sold me accepts a charge and tests good on their machine.
 

nsmiller

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Location
Story City, IA
TDI
2009 CR
I just tried to register for my TDI goodwill package so I could get a battery on the house and I'm now told its too late? What the $&%^?

When I read the VWdieselinfo website back in December there was no mention of an expiration date or making it clear that accepting the program did not give up my legal rights. Plus I had to deal with deaths in my family and my graduate degree. I simply didn't have time to deal with it. Now I'm screwed. Sorry, I had to vent.
 

HBarlow

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2012
Location
Crosby County, TX
TDI
2009 Jetta Sportwagen, 2016 Audi Q5 TDI
Advance Auto and the other auto parts stores would be the last place I would buy a battery. Imo their batteries would rank right alongside a used battery from a low rent tire repair shop. If AA used a cheap handheld battery tester they really didn't test the battery. For an accurate determination a battery has to be load tested with an expensive battery tester on a wheeled cart and some time to load the battery.

Keep it simple. If the battery can be charged but won't start the TDI soon after I would replace the battery rather than perform detailed circuit testing.
 

St.Hubbins

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Location
Nashville
TDI
'10 Golf, DSG / '11 A3, DSG (both went buyback) - '15 GSW SE
i'm in the same boat - bought a Schumacher 50Amp charger jump pack yesterday, and charged the battery until it read "fully charged."
car just barely turned over this morning, so charge doesn't seem to hold.

really don't want to spend 180 clams on a new one for a few months use - would finding a used, lesser-rated battery be foolish? felt good about buying the charger (good to have) for 60 bucks versus a battery at 3x's that!
 

carkey351

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Location
MN -land of the ice and snow
TDI
2006 Jetta 5 speed 157K(to replace 09 when it goes away)2009 Jetta 6 speed-414K (and climbing), 2002 chevy duramax (303k and climbing).
I have learned (the hard way) to only buy batteries for a TDI from a VW dealer. Most aftermarket batteries (even the recommended ones) are not up to the task of properly working in our cars. When my first battery died, I bought the recommended replacement from Sam's Club. It only started my car reliably for a few months. It had a high enough CCA rating but it did not have the reserve capacity to maintain all of the always on electronics and still start the car after a week of sitting unused. The proper battery from VW worked perfectly.

Have Fun!

Don
this is BS from JSWTDI09. any battery that matches OEM specs is up to the job. Mine currently has a NAPA in it that has rolled lots of miles on it. Battery life depends on how you use the car. Mine has 413K so i like to think i kinda know what works and doesn't. I bought the car with this battery, but i also charge it on a battery charger every 3 months or so. To address your drain issue you need to do the drain test with a multimeter. Usually its a module or switch that has failed, cheap part but will cost some time. Fuse by fuse you will find it. EDIT: not calling out JSWTDI09, just clarifying what he said isn't accurate.
 
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JSWTDI09

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2009 JSW TDI (gone but not forgotten)
this is BS from JSWTDI09. any battery that matches OEM specs is up to the job. Mine currently has a NAPA in it that has rolled lots of miles on it.....snip...
EDIT: not calling out JSWTDI09, just clarifying what he said isn't accurate.
I am no expert on batteries, but what I said was an accurate description of my experience, it is not BS. It is very possible that many other batteries are as good as the OEM ones. All I can tell you, for sure, (from first hand experience) is that the battery that Sam's/Walmart said was the proper replacement for my car did not work for more than a few months (they actually said that it was "better than the OEM one" in CCA). When I took it back to Sam's they put it on load tester for quite a while and they said it tested as a good battery. I still have that stupid battery, they wouldn't give me my money back. What I said was accurate because it was my experience. Why it happened, I am not sure about but what happened is not debatable.

You are correct about using a meter and measuring fuses to find a battery drain, but I had no battery drain problem, just a poor (undersized?) battery. All I know, for sure, is that the battery I bought was not up to the job and that the proper OEM battery always is. There is no BS in that statement. However, YMMV. Many companies make good batteries but it is pretty apparent that not all of their cross-reference books properly size batteries for our cars. VW knows what our cars need. It's really that simple.

Have Fun!

Don
 

carkey351

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Location
MN -land of the ice and snow
TDI
2006 Jetta 5 speed 157K(to replace 09 when it goes away)2009 Jetta 6 speed-414K (and climbing), 2002 chevy duramax (303k and climbing).
I am no expert on batteries, but what I said was an accurate description of my experience, it is not BS. It is very possible that many other batteries are as good as the OEM ones. All I can tell you, for sure, (from first hand experience) is that the battery that Sam's/Walmart said was the proper replacement for my car did not work for more than a few months (they actually said that it was "better than the OEM one" in CCA). When I took it back to Sam's they put it on load tester for quite a while and they said it tested as a good battery. I still have that stupid battery, they wouldn't give me my money back. What I said was accurate because it was my experience. Why it happened, I am not sure about but what happened is not debatable.

You are correct about using a meter and measuring fuses to find a battery drain, but I had no battery drain problem, just a poor (undersized?) battery. All I know, for sure, is that the battery I bought was not up to the job and that the proper OEM battery always is. There is no BS in that statement. However, YMMV. Many companies make good batteries but it is pretty apparent that not all of their cross-reference books properly size batteries for our cars. VW knows what our cars need. It's really that simple.

Have Fun!

Don
well sh$t i didn't mean to be mean, just wanted to point out that it may or may not be the battery! do proper troubleshooting and you will find the cause OP! your experience is valued and JSWTDI09 keep telling us what you know to be true! im not good with words...
 

nsmiller

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Location
Story City, IA
TDI
2009 CR
Well I thought I had this problem fixed. I got out my multi-meter and started testing fuses. Everything read 0's on the mV scale on my meter. Honestly its a cheap meter and I probably need a better one to accurately measure voltage changes that small. But what I did notice is a wire in my fuse box that didn't look factory. It almost to me looked hotwired in. So I disconnected it. Turns out it was my sun roof. But I left it disconnected just to see what would happen. For a while, the car started without a problem. I even drove it 3.5 hours away to Lincoln, Ne, stayed in a hotel over night and came home the next day without a problem. That was Sunday. Then I drove the car again on Wednesday without a problem. Well this morning (Friday) it won't start. Either I have an intermittent problem with something not going to sleep (which is impossible to test if it doesn't happen consistently) or I have got a junk battery like JSWTDI09 had. I might replace the battery at this point just to eliminate it as a source of the problem, even though I hate to spend the money.
 
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Andrewh

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Location
Allen, TX
I am not sure it is the battery or an item that doesn't go to sleep.
in your first post, you mention you drove about 20 miles then shut it down for 2 hours and it wouldn't crank.

I would start looking at connectors and cables, and maybe ground paths.
Also when that happens again, measure voltage of the battery.

It could be a couple of things, like a no charge condition in the car.
Bad ground to the battery
bad ground cable to the battery(I have had a few burn out, not in VW's but in general).

All of these things are tough to check with a multi meter as 1 strand will show continuity but won't carry the amps needed.

Driving for 30 min while won't give you a full charge, should give you enough that something not going to sleep for 2 hours shouldn't kill it off.

I haven't done the math, but am pretty confident of this.
 

Vince Waldon

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
TDI
2001 ALH Jetta, 2003 ALH Wagon, 2005 BEW Wagon
I might replace the battery at this point just to eliminate it as a source of the problem
Re-reading the thread.. and wondering if at any point you've run a couple quick tests on the charging system to eliminate it as a suspect?

Specifically, with your multimeter hooked up to both battery posts:

1) engine off: battery voltage should be in the range of 12.5V. If not, battery is discharged and an overnight charge is in order.

2) engine started and running: voltage should jump at least a volt into the 13.5V range. No jump means the charging system is not working and should be investigated in more detail.
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
Fail #1. buying a battery at Advance Auto Parts for your dub.
Fail #2. not performing the TSB to the intent it was written.

To do the TSB, you need to trip the drivers door latch, arm the alarm and then wait at least 30 minutes for all the controllers to go to sleep.

The reason you trip the door latch is so you can do your testing with all the controllers in sleep mode with the drivers door open and the alarm armed so you can get to the fuse panel.

With this kind of problem, most likely there will be zero fault codes set. It just kills me that folks expect VCDS to magically find problems that are beyond the capability of the tool.

VCDS is a really great tool, but not understanding how and when to use it makes it nothing more than a fancy toy.
 
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Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
Do the 2009 cars have the drivers wiring harness issue with broken wires?

On my 2005.5, I thought my electrical drainage issue was the radio, replaced the radio, with no effect. Found the drivers harness wires in the
rubber boot from the door jam to the door had broken wires, replaced
the drivers door harness, which seems to have fixed the problem.
Probably not. the problem was fixed in production in late 2006.
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
My battery died this week. In my experience one of those jump pack batteries is not powerful enough to start a TDI if your battery is really dead. I had to call AAA yesterday, they tried to use a jump pack to start my car - no luck. Then he hooked up real jumper cables to his truck and it would still not start my car. He had to put his truck and the jump pack in parallel and the engine finally fired up. These CR engines take a lot of current to run the starter and the glow plugs at the same time. Some batteries and many jumper cables can't handle that current draw. I now have a new battery in my car (paid for with my dealership goodwill card).



:D:D

Have Fun!

Don
Partially correct. What happens is when you turn to start the glow plugs cycle and will knock a marginal battery's charge down to were you get a no crank. What works well is to have the jump car charge your battery for about 10 minutes before you try to start.
 

relumalutan

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Location
Michigan
TDI
06 Jetta TDI Special Edition
My battery died on January. It was an after market, CCA rated higher than the OEM battery. It was on the car since 2011. This were my symptoms: one day the car didn't start out of nowhere. Jump started the car, it worked like new for another two weeks. After that it died out of nowhere again. I've performed the drain test per TSB, no drain found. The battery was the issue. I would say replace it as soon as possible and avoid jump starting the car, as in my case it caused an electrical mayhem (burned the windshield wiper motor, the aux heater element and the cables that heat the windshield nozzles + I had no air bags until I've replaced and fixed everything). It took me 6 months and countless hours to fix it. When you go to the dealership, make sure you ask for the battery for the diesel engines, as they have one for gassers too. I've paid for mine $160.
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
Of course a correctly rated battery in good condition is very important.

The problem is that after market batteries are not rated in ampere hour (AH) like the German batteries are. So you have no clue if the FLAPS (Friendly Local Auto Parts) battery you got meets the AH requirements for your TDI.

For German batteries CCA means nothing, as you found out.
 

South Coast Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Location
Mattapoisett, MA
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI wagon
this is BS from JSWTDI09. any battery that matches OEM specs is up to the job. Mine currently has a NAPA in it that has rolled lots of miles on it. Battery life depends on how you use the car. Mine has 413K so i like to think i kinda know what works and doesn't. I bought the car with this battery, but i also charge it on a battery charger every 3 months or so. To address your drain issue you need to do the drain test with a multimeter. Usually its a module or switch that has failed, cheap part but will cost some time. Fuse by fuse you will find it. EDIT: not calling out JSWTDI09, just clarifying what he said isn't accurate.
Sorry to disagree, but I have seen numerous battery problems posted on this site and for some reason they were fixed when the poster bought a battery from a VW dealer.
 

nsmiller

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Location
Story City, IA
TDI
2009 CR
So in my case, it appears to have been a crappy battery from Advanced Auto. I bought new battery at VW (complained about dieselgate stuff and got it for premium customer pricing aka $130 which is less than I paid for the Advanced Auto Battery). Its been about 2 weeks since the new battery. The car has been driven numerous times, including to Kansas City (3.5 hours) and back this past weekend without problems. Knock on wood they don't reappear.

Even though my Advanced Auto Battery takes a charge and tests good it only starts the car reliably about 50% of the time. The battery was only about 11 months old. I'll be hard pressed to get a warranty claim out of Advanced because they claim its a good battery. Not the case.
 

tdiatlast

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
Wow. 25 days, 27 posts.
Glad you've got it figured out!
I've ALWAYS stuck with Vw/Audi OEM batteries, since 1983, never a battery fail issue. Always replaced between 3-4 years of use.
 

redbarron55

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Location
Navarre, FL.
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI Executive
A weak battery causes some weird problems starting.
The engine will turn and try to start and then stop.
It happens with my 2009 and just did it with my 2103.
each time no codes, but a new battery fixed it.
The new battery I got from the VW dealer for $136 was made by Interstate.
I get pretty good life from the battery removed (there was no core charge from the VW dealer) in various tractors etc.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
My battery died this week. In my experience one of those jump pack batteries is not powerful enough to start a TDI if your battery is really dead. I had to call AAA yesterday, they tried to use a jump pack to start my car - no luck. Then he hooked up real jumper cables to his truck and it would still not start my car. He had to put his truck and the jump pack in parallel and the engine finally fired up. These CR engines take a lot of current to run the starter and the glow plugs at the same time. Some batteries and many jumper cables can't handle that current draw. I now have a new battery in my car (paid for with my dealership goodwill card).



:D:D

Have Fun!

Don

You guys should have just pushed it and popped the clutch, had to do that with my dead battery and late for a flight.

One of the very few times I've been glad the driveway is 10% grade.
 
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