2008 Jetta TDI sighted!!! (pics)

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skypilot_one

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I have been looking at purchasing a new TDI because my mother had a Rabbit that lasted 480,000 miles and my uncle has a 97 Passat and a newer Jetta.

I need to tow a 600 lb V-nose trailer at times thru Vermont.

The 2006 Jetta manual states you can tow 1500 lbs with the gas engine and only 1000 lbs with the 1.9 diesel.

I hooked my trailer to a friends '99 5 speed TDI to see how it pulled. It pulled it like my old '89 Toyota Corolla with it's worn out engine. It could not maintain 60mph going up a grade on the highway and I had to downshift to 3rd to go 55 MPH.

Is this normal? Maybe I should wait until 2008.
 
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bhtooefr

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Give me a 2.0L CR170 TDI in that A8, and then it'll be very fuel efficient.

I do think that we need to do two things.

First, make driving an automatic something that is completely and totally undesirable. I'm thinking, give a discount on licensing for a manual transmission car?

Second, make engines smaller, now that you're not having to fight a torque converter.

Third, teach people the art of conserving momentum, and also the fact that their go pedal goes to WOT, and their tach goes past half travel for a reason. :D
 

Txst

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AutoDiesel said:
It's no good TM.

He's not worth arguing with.

There is no rational thought there.

Hopefully he'll just move on soon to his
next cause célèbre.

We will just continue driving our diesels as we have been
doing for a long time and watch as more choices arrive on
the market providing a great new number of diesel vehicles
to choose from in the next few years.
Is that you again audi5000? Thought you disappeared!:rolleyes:
 

Txst

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nicklockard said:
Did HE|| just freeze over? I *thought* I felt a chilly wind, oh my:eek:

I haven't got He||'s phone number at hand. Could someone call them and ask their temperature? I am agreeing with TM 100% here:eek::eek::eek: because a carbon tax is essentially EXACTLY what nhmike has been advocating in practice.

Yup, he|| MUST HAVE frozen over.
I've been saying to tax the heck out of them. I agree with that...but that is proactive and not forgetting about them. It also is just one way to face the problem head on. There are other ways...but hoping the problem will just diasppear or fall in line is just wishful thinking. Wishful thinking has kept us where we are for way too long. Tax the heck out of them...but don't forget about them.
 

PDJetta

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fase2000TDI said:
beacause the other is a flex fuel monster that probably gets 12mpg gasoline, and 10 if you're actually able to fuel up on ethanol.

Flex fuel is bull****.

The other hydrogen fuel cell, runs on hydrogen fuel cells, right?. How do you produce hydrogen? A chemical reaction. It takes electricity or some sort of energy to produce hydrogen. 75% of our electricity comes from burning of petro fuels, one form or another. If cars ran on fuel cells, the need for electricity would go up and as such more fossile fuel would be burnt.

fuel cells running on hydrogen created from electricity produced by fossile fuel burning are bull****!
I saw a special on TV recently about H2 cars and it said presently, most hydrogen is made from petroleum, synthetically.:rolleyes:

--Nate
 

Tin Man

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nicklockard said:
Did HE|| just freeze over? I *thought* I felt a chilly wind, oh my:eek:

I haven't got He||'s phone number at hand. Could someone call them and ask their temperature? I am agreeing with TM 100% here:eek::eek::eek: because a carbon tax is essentially EXACTLY what nhmike has been advocating in practice.

Yup, he|| MUST HAVE frozen over.
Actually nhmike advocates a "petrol tax" along with a graduated rebate on income taxes, both of which I oppose.

I feel that a mild across the board carbon tax would be much more politically acceptable, much less punitive, less complex, and economically feasible. A general rate decrease in other taxes would make it revenue neutral and not hurt the economy. I'm not convinced a "value added tax" should be a centerpiece of government funding either, but so far, a carbon tax has been the best proposal from level-headed researchers at MIT.

But thanks for the support! We need to do something!

TM
 

Tin Man

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AutoDiesel said:
It's no good TM.

He's not worth arguing with.

There is no rational thought there.

Hopefully he'll just move on soon to his
next cause célèbre.

We will just continue driving our diesels as we have been
doing for a long time and watch as more choices arrive on
the market providing a great new number of diesel vehicles
to choose from in the next few years.
I agree. He is irrational, simplistic, and arrogant. His patronizing posts and trolling will continue if we respond to it, so I'll try not to.

Regards,

TM
 
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TDIMeister

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bhtooefr said:
Give me a 2.0L CR170 TDI in that A8, and then it'll be very fuel efficient.
Engine downsizing can only be but a part of the overall strategy to reduce fuel consumption. Overall vehicle mass, drag coefficient and frontal area must also be reduced. The last of the three cannot be significantly reduced without impact to passenger space and space utility. Drag coefficients, although as an overall trend has been coming down, has not done so very quickly. Today's "state-of-the-art" is considered around 0.25, and this value existed in production cars dating to the 1970s and 80s.

That leaves vehicle mass as the single thing that OEMs can and must work toward not only "optimizing" but rather reversing the trend of increasingly heavier cars, making cars significantly lighter rather than just maintaining the status quo. It is unbelievable that a compact car of the size of a VW Polo is pushing 2500 lbs, and mid-sized car is considered a lightweight if it tips the scales under 3500 lbs. Of course, safety regulations and market demands for more gadgets have been the cause behind most of the weight increases, but in this automotive landscape, some automakers like Lotus have been able to buck the trend of porkier cars while meeting crash standards through intelligent engineering. Of course, lightweight engineering currently costs more, so until automakers can look beyond strictly Dollars and cents, and actually consider other metrics like resource consumption, waste generation, lifecycle energy consumption, etc. in their bean counting, the status quo will only continue.


First, make driving an automatic something that is completely and totally undesirable. I'm thinking, give a discount on licensing for a manual transmission car?

Second, make engines smaller, now that you're not having to fight a torque converter.

Third, teach people the art of conserving momentum, and also the fact that their go pedal goes to WOT, and their tach goes past half travel for a reason. :D
Engine downsizing goes without saying. Teaching a generation of consumers and drivers that you don't need a 300 HP car to go from A to B is the bigger challenge. As we can appreciate, even a 90 HP car can be moderately fun and give perfectly adequate pace for the overwhelming number of drivers.

Torque converters when in lock-up mode (in transmissions so equipped, and most modern automatic transmissions do) experience little losses. The problem is not due to having a TC in-and-of-itself. Increasing the ratio spread, increasing the number of gears, and optimizing all of the energy losses in the drivetrain, can result in ATXs with little efficiency penalty over manuals. The percentage of non-manual-shifting transmissions will only increase over time. If you can't beat em, join 'em, making them as efficient as possible.

I agree with #3 totally. In North America at least, driver education to obtain a drivers licence is a total joke. Looking back, I am embarassed that I was able to obtain a full drivers licence 4 weeks after my 16th birthday. I had some "unofficial" training on non-public roads well before I turned 16, but still... Extensive safety training; evasive and emergency driving manoeuvres; thorough winter-driving training (if one lives in such climes); high-performance driving; basic vehicle mechanics; maintenance; changing a flat tire on side of the road; anti-drunk driving lessons; road etiquette; and driver psychology should all be absolute minimum examined requirements before letting new drivers loose on the streets.

Edit: One thing I should add regarding the suggestion to separate manual- and automatic car drivers: In Europe, automatic-only drivers have a specific restricted class in their drivers licence. And in some countries, drivers of such cars must have a prominent sticker on the car with a big letter 'A' ... I leave it up to you to find some creative ideas as to what this could be made to mean to other drivers: "Watch out! 'A...' driver". :D
 
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Tin Man

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TDIMeister said:
Engine downsizing can only be but a part of the overall strategy to reduce fuel consumption. Overall vehicle mass, drag coefficient and frontal area must also be reduced. The last of the three cannot be significantly reduced without impact to passenger space and space utility. Drag coefficients, although as an overall trend has been coming down, has not done so very quickly. Today's "state-of-the-art" is considered around 0.25, and this value existed in production cars dating to the 1970s and 80s.. :D
Interestingly, what is the general view in Germany about a car that is "state of the art" on par with the US version of the E320 CDI? Not just an economy car, but one that "does it all" for the owner.

What an amazing car it has been all around. Would a typical German pick such a car as their "best choice" if you get my drift?

Coefficient of drag 0.27 cd
Curb weight 3,835 lb/1,740 kg
Cabin capacity 97.2 cu ft/2,752.0 liters
Cargo capacity 15.9 cu ft/450.0 liters
Acceleration: 0 - 60 mph in 6.6 seconds
Fuel economy
EPA estimate: 27 mpg
Highway estimate: 37 mpg
 

bhtooefr

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Of course, Ohio even has the infrastructure in place for a "E" restriction - automatic transmission only.

But, I'm against using that to restrict people to automatics, because in the US, the automatic critical mass is high enough that if a state were to require it, it would be manuals that would die out, not automatics. The barrier of entry to a manual would increase.

Anyway, my suggestion is... decrease the crash safety. That's one place where you can lose a LOT of weight. There's a point where the crash safety is "enough", and you don't need to go any further. If you can walk away from a car after getting hit at 55 MPH in the nose by ~4000 pounds of minivan, WITHOUT A SCRATCH, it's a pretty safe car. Guess what I did?

Note that my Jetta had (and my Golf does have) nearly the room of a Mk5 Jetta or Rabbit, yet weighs 900 pounds less. NINE HUNDRED FRIGGIN POUNDS! And, the Mk2 Jetta handles just as well as the Mk5 Jetta... note that the Mk2 doesn't have an independent rear suspension!
 
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jackbombay

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skypilot_one said:
I hooked my trailer to a friends '99 5 speed TDI to see how it pulled. It pulled it like my old '89 Toyota Corolla with it's worn out engine. It could not maintain 60mph going up a grade on the highway and I had to downshift to 3rd to go 55 MPH.

Is this normal? Maybe I should wait until 2008.
You buddies car likely has a clogged intake manifold or a bad MAF, you should hardly be able to notice 600 pounds behind a properly functioning stock TDI.
 

Tin Man

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Part of the appeal of a larger car with a longer wheelbase is ride. Not trivial for some people like me with severe neck arthritis.

As far as crash safety, I don't know when enough is enough and I certainly believe the IIHS, an insurance industry funded lobbying group, doesn't either!

TM
 

TDIMeister

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Tin Man said:
Interestingly, what is the general view in Germany about a car that is "state of the art" on par with the US version of the E320 CDI? Not just an economy car, but one that "does it all" for the owner.

What an amazing car it has been all around. Would a typical German pick such a car as their "best choice" if you get my drift?

Coefficient of drag 0.27 cd
Curb weight 3,835 lb/1,740 kg
Cabin capacity 97.2 cu ft/2,752.0 liters
Cargo capacity 15.9 cu ft/450.0 liters
Acceleration: 0 - 60 mph in 6.6 seconds
Fuel economy
EPA estimate: 27 mpg
Highway estimate: 37 mpg
TM, as I'm sure you can appreciate, most people's car-buying choices are dictacted from their wallets and not drag coefficient figures and 0-60 times. Cars like the E-class M-Bs are sought after the economic demographic that can afford them (plus of course some that can't). The rest have to make compromises. It's no different in Europe as in N.A., although in the latter disposable incomes are somewhat higher and there is greater cultural acceptance to take on debt to buy cars than in N.A., with very liberal financing and leasing options that generally don't exist in Europe.
 

jayp111

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bhtooefr said:
Of course, Ohio even has the infrastructure in place for a "E" restriction - automatic transmission only.

But, I'm against using that to restrict people to automatics, because in the US, the automatic critical mass is high enough that if a state were to require it, it would be manuals that would die out, not automatics. The barrier of entry to a manual would increase.

Anyway, my suggestion is... decrease the crash safety. That's one place where you can lose a LOT of weight. There's a point where the crash safety is "enough", and you don't need to go any further. If you can walk away from a car after getting hit at 55 MPH in the nose by ~4000 pounds of minivan, WITHOUT A SCRATCH, it's a pretty safe car. Guess what I did?

Note that my Jetta had (and my Golf does have) nearly the room of a Mk5 Jetta or Rabbit, yet weighs 900 pounds less. NINE HUNDRED FRIGGIN POUNDS! And, the Mk2 Jetta handles just as well as the Mk5 Jetta... note that the Mk2 doesn't have an independent rear suspension!
Yup, my A5 is pretty much built like a bridge abutment.....just got 40.95 MPG on the last tank....it would be stellar if it were 1000lbs lighter if they could maintain the safety factor.....
 

Txst

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Tin Man said:
I agree. He is irrational, simplistic, and arrogant. His patronizing posts and trolling will continue if we respond to it, so I'll try not to.

Regards,

TM
Talk about arrogance!!! Wow, autodiesel (who is obsessed with my posts but tries to pretend he is ignoring them) must be your best chum...he taught you the art of name calling and instigating...very impressive:rolleyes:. Feel better now? I hope you got it all off your chest. Hopefully this puts an end to it once and for all so the rest of us can get back to talking the topic instead of bickering. Adios...
 
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Txst

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justpaddlek1 said:
Yup, my A5 is pretty much built like a bridge abutment.....just got 40.95 MPG on the last tank....it would be stellar if it were 1000lbs lighter if they could maintain the safety factor.....
LOL! A bridge abutment? That's a new one I haven't heard before but I guess it makes some sense. I'm really happy about the way they made this Jetta. Getting better MPG would be nice but it still gets way better than the Caravan I was driving. I also like the sturdy feel of the new Jetta...it doesn't feel tinny like alot of other cars. And for as heavy as it is...it moves pretty quickly for 100hp. The extra torque is nice. Never have a problem going through the foothills.:) I'll bet that new 08 model will be sweet through the hills!
 
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nicklockard

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Tin Man said:
Actually nhmike advocates a "petrol tax" along with a graduated rebate on income taxes, both of which I oppose.

I feel that a mild across the board carbon tax would be much more politically acceptable, much less punitive, less complex, and economically feasible. A general rate decrease in other taxes would make it revenue neutral and not hurt the economy. I'm not convinced a "value added tax" should be a centerpiece of government funding either, but so far, a carbon tax has been the best proposal from level-headed researchers at MIT.

But thanks for the support! We need to do something!

TM
TM, a carbon tax would work almost exactly as nhmike's proposal in actual practice wouldn't it?

Coal, petroleum products, natural gas....all release net carbon to atmosphere and would be taxed accordingly to their production of CO2.

Biofuels, having so fewer petroleum inputs, would pay much less, in some cases: nothing.

The only difference, in practice, is that a carbon tax would be punitive to the unprepared. It could be phased in over a longish time period, so that people have time to switch to alternatives.

I wouldn't know how to make it revenue-neutral though...somehow you'd have to offset it, but I can't see a way that would make you *and* I happy, and therein lie the rub.
 
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Tin Man

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nicklockard said:
TM, a carbon tax would work almost exactly as nhmike's proposal in actual practice wouldn't it?

Coal, petroleum products, natural gas....all release net carbon to atmosphere and would be taxed accordingly to their production of CO2.

Biofuels, having so fewer petroleum inputs, would pay much less, in some cases: nothing.

The only difference, in practice, is that a carbon tax would be punitive to the unprepared. It could be phased in over a longish time period, so that people have time to switch to alternatives.

I wouldn't know how to make it revenue-neutral though...somehow you'd have to offset it, but I can't see a way that would make you *and* I happy, and therein lie the rub.
Yeah. But the "rub" would be finding a political way to get it done.

The "petrol tax" is designed to "pay for the hidden cost of oil" while the carbon tax is designed to reign in global warming. Very different purposes that overlap in some ways, yes.

What would help is that even imported goods could be taxed for their carbon use. Countries like Brazil, developing or not, could have an advantage exporting to the US with "carbon neutral" goods while heavy users of oil like China might not have such a free ride.

And to make both of us happy, that would be a miracle!:D

TM
 

nicklockard

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Tin Man said:
Yeah. But the "rub" would be finding a political way to get it done.

The "petrol tax" is designed to "pay for the hidden cost of oil" while the carbon tax is designed to reign in global warming. Very different purposes that overlap in some ways, yes.

What would help is that even imported goods could be taxed for their carbon use. Countries like Brazil, developing or not, could have an advantage exporting to the US with "carbon neutral" goods while heavy users of oil like China might not have such a free ride.

And to make both of us happy, that would be a miracle!:D

TM
Seriously, if the WTO could agree on a carbon tax that would be status-neutral (i.e: China pays just as much as India as does US as does Canada per ton of CO2) with a credit trading program. IF the tax were sufficiently painful, it would have the same effect as nhmike's proposal: to wean us of oil as much as possible, as fast as possible.

If it were just green wash window dressing, it would be useless though.
But! No silly credits for forests or other such trickery nonsense!
 

Tin Man

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nicklockard said:
Seriously, if the WTO could agree on a carbon tax that would be status-neutral (i.e: China pays just as much as India as does US as does Canada per ton of CO2) with a credit trading program. IF the tax were sufficiently painful, it would have the same effect as nhmike's proposal: to wean us of oil as much as possible, as fast as possible.

If it were just green wash window dressing, it would be useless though.
But! No silly credits for forests or other such trickery nonsense!
Sounds good, except the "pain" (I would call it a contribution or "investment" to quote some Democratic demagogues) needs to be reasonable to preserve economic prosperity.

That and perhaps some formula allowing for basic services in a civilized society to help ease the pain of developing modern infrastructure so as not to penalize appropriate use of resources up to a point.

TM
 

sexwax

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oilhammer said:
Because I bet that Avalanche can burn through corn ethanol like a fat man through Krispy Kremes, and THAT seems very counterproductive to me. Self sufficiency starts with conservation, and that Avalanche and others like it are an oxymoron. :rolleyes:

Beasts like that make me ashamed to be American.:mad:
While I agree with you that beasts like that are counderproductive turds, remember that big, fast, and gas guzzling has always been very American.
 

Txst

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sexwax said:
While I agree with you that beasts like that are counderproductive turds, remember that big, fast, and gas guzzling has always been very American.
True...and it was a great ride for a while!! But more important things are facing the world today. So unfortunately, we have to do a "major over-haul". It really is the best thing for America in our day and age... even though it ain't easy.:eek:
 
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MrMopar

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skypilot_one said:
I hooked my trailer to a friends '99 5 speed TDI to see how it pulled. It pulled it like my old '89 Toyota Corolla with it's worn out engine. It could not maintain 60mph going up a grade on the highway and I had to downshift to 3rd to go 55 MPH.

Is this normal? Maybe I should wait until 2008.
600 pounds of trailer weight is equivilant to four 150 pound passengers in the car. No, the '99 TDI was not running right.
 

MrMopar

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TDIMeister said:
I agree with #3 totally. In North America at least, driver education to obtain a drivers licence is a total joke. Looking back, I am embarassed that I was able to obtain a full drivers licence 4 weeks after my 16th birthday. I had some "unofficial" training on non-public roads well before I turned 16, but still... Extensive safety training; evasive and emergency driving manoeuvres; thorough winter-driving training (if one lives in such climes); high-performance driving; basic vehicle mechanics; maintenance; changing a flat tire on side of the road; anti-drunk driving lessons; road etiquette; and driver psychology should all be absolute minimum examined requirements before letting new drivers loose on the streets.
We live in a 100% car centric culture. It's nee impossible to have a decent living standard without being able to drive. I tried it when my drivers license was suspended 7 years ago - couldn't do it, so I drove all throughout the suspension.

Look at Great Britain, where a huge percentage of people flunk the driving exam because the bar is set higher. Know what? As a result of that, Great Britain has a huge number of people who drive without ever bothering to get a license. You want the same thing here in the USA? The jails and prisons in our country are already overflowing with petty drug criminals. Start clogging those courts with thousands of drivers without licenses, and you'll have created a problem where none existed before.
 

AutoDiesel

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Txst said:
True...and it was a great ride for a while!! But more important things are facing the world today. So unfortunately, we have to do a "major over-haul". It really is the best thing for America in our day and age... even though it ain't easy.:eek:
Please answer this....

Who wrote this......

It will appear that there is no reasonable prospect of any relief from a future want of the main agent of industry...

We cannot long continue our present rate of progress. The first check for our growing prosperity, however, must render our population excessive.
And then answer why he was proven wrong.;)
 

jayp111

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MrMopar said:
We live in a 100% car centric culture. It's nee impossible to have a decent living standard without being able to drive. I tried it when my drivers license was suspended 7 years ago - couldn't do it, so I drove all throughout the suspension.

Look at Great Britain, where a huge percentage of people flunk the driving exam because the bar is set higher. Know what? As a result of that, Great Britain has a huge number of people who drive without ever bothering to get a license. You want the same thing here in the USA? The jails and prisons in our country are already overflowing with petty drug criminals. Start clogging those courts with thousands of drivers without licenses, and you'll have created a problem where none existed before.
Mopar, so according to you its ok to have a bunch of drivers on the road that don't have the skills or have been convicted of DWI or other offenses? Hogwash pal! Your rights end where everyone elses begin....if you can't prove that you are capable of handling an auto properly/reponsibly without hurting others then you don't deserve to be allowed behind the wheel......last I checked driving was a privilege not a right.
 

Tin Man

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justpaddlek1 said:
Mopar, so according to you its ok to have a bunch of drivers on the road that don't have the skills or have been convicted of DWI or other offenses? Hogwash pal! Your rights end where everyone elses begin....if you can't prove that you are capable of handling an auto properly/reponsibly without hurting others then you don't deserve to be allowed behind the wheel......last I checked driving was a privilege not a right.
Relax, he was talking about what would happen if the US tightened its driving rules, not loosened them! According to your analysis of Mr. Mopar's statement, the US already rewards poor drivers with "privileges."

TM
 

Txst

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AutoDiesel said:
Please answer this....

Who wrote this......



And then answer why he was proven wrong.;)
Oh Brother:rolleyes: Are you his defense attorney now? I thought you were ignoring my posts like you said and like you tell others to do! Please go your way...and let it alone. It's way past old now.
 

jayp111

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Tin Man said:
Relax, he was talking about what would happen if the US tightened its driving rules, not loosened them! According to your analysis of Mr. Mopar's statement, the US already rewards poor drivers with "privileges."

TM
TM, I actually don't believe thats what would happen if the US were to snug up its requirements.

Tighten it up with some really stiff fines and a 3 strikes and your out rule for major offense with any 12 month period and I would be OK with that. Maybe we should cane the crap out of the repeat offenders.....bet that would make 'em think twice next time.

Severe fines and penalties with real teeth would go a long way....right now its nothing more than a slap on the wrist as evidenced by Mopar and others I know that simply drive through a suspension.

Driving is a priviledge not a right and frankly I'm getting tired of paying high insurance rates to make up for all the crummy drivers out there sipping a double-skinny-half-caff-double whip-extra-foam-extra-hot latte while chatting it up on the phone. "Gee Officer I don't have any clue how I hit that pedestrian/car/house....it just jumped in front of me out of nowhere"
 

cptmox

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justpaddlek1 said:
TM, I actually don't believe thats what would happen if the US were to snug up its requirements.

Tighten it up with some really stiff fines and a 3 strikes and your out rule for major offense with any 12 month period and I would be OK with that.

Severe fines and penalties with real teeth would go a long way....right now its nothing more than a slap on the wrist as evidenced by Mopar and others I know that simply drive through a suspension.

Driving is a priviledge not a right and frankly I'm getting tired of paying high insurance rates to make up for all the crummy drivers out there sipping a double-skinny-half-caff-double whip-extra-foam-extra-hot latte while chatting it up on the phone. "Gee Officer I don't have any clue how I hit that pedestrian/car/house....it just jumped in front of me out of nowhere"
I agree with severe fines and penalties, except that they don't really deter people. The fines for a DUI are about as bad as you can get, and drinking and driving still happens. I think most municipalities employ stiff fines already, full knowing that the deterence factor isn't there. They just rake in the money, and wouldn't want it any other way. When you get a parking ticket in Chicago, you write your check out to "Department of Revenue" :mad:

People drive through suspensions because they have to. I can and do take mass transit on occasion, but many Americans simply can't. Why not? Start a thread that criticizes folks for not taking a train or bus, and you will hear every reason why not.

Driving is a priviledge and a necessity for most.
 
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