2005 MK4 TDI Wagon - Really Long Start - Confused By Dash Lights

[05TurboWagon]

So... I went back outside, freezing my stones off, key on, ESP issue again. Re-AutoScanned:

Same errors for:

Address 01 (B1S1 o2 Sensor who cares)
Address 03 (ESP Front MK60 0102 Fault 01314)
Address 17 (KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V06 Fault 01314)
Address 19 (radio, who cares)
Address 46 (8A Komfortgerát HLO 0004 Fault: 00930 [rear right lock])

Here is some other info I gathered at SoT:

Address 01: Engine (038 997 016 H)

19:25:51 Group 004: Pump-Jet Valves
903 /min Engine Speed (G28)
9.3 °BTDC Injection Start (specified)
6.6°KW Injection Duration (specified)
2.5°KW Torsion Value

Address 01: Engine (038 997 016 H)
19:29:42 Group 010: Charge Pressure Control
385.0 mg/str Mass Air Flow (actual)
856.8 mbar Atmospheric Pressure
856.8 mbar Boost Pressure (actual)
0.0 % Accel. Pedal Pos. Sensor 1 (G79)

5.2 mg/str Injection Quantity
6.6°KW Injection Duration (specified)
87.3°C Coolant Temperature (G62)
200.0 mg/str Exhaust Gas Recirculat. (spec.)
380.0 mg/str Exhaust Gas Recirculat. (actual)
100.6 % Exhaust Gas Recirc. Duty Cycle
5.0 °BTDC Injection Start (specified)
6.6°KW Injection Duration (specified)
2.5°KW Torsion Value


Address 01: Engine
Control Module Part Number: 038 997 016 H
Component and/or Version: R4 1,9L EDC G000SG 9970
Software Coding: 0150031
Work Shop Code: WSC 23329
VCID: 2313EF0617CE2ED34E0-5184

Advanced Identification
Serial number: VWZ7Z0D0917977
Identification: BPG-810
Revision: 12345678
Date: 01.12.04
Test stand number: 1889
Manufacturer number: 0847
Flash Status
Programming Attempts: 1
Successful Attempts: 1
Programming Status: 00000000
Required Conditions: 00000001
Flash Tool Code: 84223 444 23329
Flash Date: 00.00.00
Software
P0101
U+8A7

Misc.
Hardware number: 028 101 181 2
Car Info
Chassis Number: WVWSR61J65W063424

 

[pedroYUL]

There was a campaign to splice an additional ground wire to the ECU on BEW equipped cars experiencing long cranks. That was implemented to my car, even before I bought it, a long time ago.

I would have to search for it, but someone posted the PDF for it. I'll come back and edit this post when/if I find it.

 

[irvingj]

"...splice an additional ground wire..." Didn't that apply to 2004 models only?

 

[JB05]

Torsion Value is group 4 in measuring blocks,IIRC.

 

[05TurboWagon]

Torsion Value is group 4 in measuring blocks,IIRC.

5.2 mg/str Injection Quantity
6.6°KW Injection Duration (specified)
87.3°C Coolant Temperature (G62)
200.0 mg/str Exhaust Gas Recirculat. (spec.)
380.0 mg/str Exhaust Gas Recirculat. (actual)
100.6 % Exhaust Gas Recirc. Duty Cycle
5.0 °BTDC Injection Start (specified)
6.6°KW Injection Duration (specified)
2.5°KW Torsion Value

 

[05TurboWagon]

So, I have confirmed, when I key on and get the ESP light, I get no glow plug light and the lift pump does not kick on. Although I cannot completely rule out a sensor yet, this sounds all electrical! Could this be an issue w/ Relay 109, perhaps exacerbated by cold weather? I'm going to look at an electrical schematic real quick... should have been at work an hour ago. SMH

 

[05TurboWagon]

I have been reading about relay 109 and looking at the wiring schematics I can see. (I have a bentley but I'm still getting the hang of looking up info in that thing). It LOOKS like, if relay 109 is borked, I will get lights lights, starter, fan, radio, etc, but no glow plugs (ECU controlled), nor lift pump (ECU controlled).

Update: So... with my key on/off maneuver, I was able to get the jetta started this morning. It ran for 30 seconds, if that, then shut down. I'm thinking Relay 109 is my *****. I disconnected the battery, pulled the relay and will take the housing off shortly. I have NAPA bringing me a new relay. Wish me luck... will update.

 

[05TurboWagon]

**************I am 99.999999% sure the issue is fixed now!!!!!!!!!!**************

So... NAPA brought me the wrong relay. Took apart my suspect relay. I saw (what looks like, no magnification with me) cracking in the solder joints (3, two external 1 internal) as scorching. I high-temp silver soldered all connections. I now have good continuity. All solder joints are SOLID.

I still have to figure out the other issues, but those are small potatoes to me right now.

I did find a TSP for the 2004 MK4 Jetta Wagon TDI regarding grounding. Is that still an issue with the 2005 or was a fix established? If it is still an issue, I would like to be proactive about it, rather than waiting for something to go wrong.

 

[wonneber]

I'm wondering about relay 109 being intermittent when you have the problem.
Not that expensive.

Did you check the negative battery grounds including under the battery tray.
Check the ground cable behind the drivers left kick panel, and behind the dash.

 

[05TurboWagon]

I'm wondering about relay 109 being intermittent when you have the problem.
Not that expensive.

Did you check the negative battery grounds including under the battery tray.
Check the ground cable behind the drivers left kick panel, and behind the dash.

Yes, I have gone through every ground I can find listed, with the exception of the ECU ground on the passenger side. I will be taking a look at that tomorrow. That is one of things that was driving me bananas; were I do have a ground issue, I can understand where signal noise would interfere with ECU operation. Running VCDS helped me narrow things down. When running scans in cold weather, vcds would sometimes not communicate with the ECU. Then, I had something wonderful happen early this morning, another pattern. I, by some dieselgod touched miracle, through key on/off, rinse repeat, I got the car to start, then 20-30 seconds later it died. I tried scanning with VCDS again and got no comms. That hit me over the head with a relay bat. I pulled the relay, had NAPA deliver another, which was wrong, so I disassembled the existing relay to discover broken solder joints and scorching. It makes a lot of sense really. I only had issues during cold weather... so the contraction of dissimilar metals would break the connection; when it warmed up, no issues. Granted, things became progressively worse as time went on. I am having no issues now; she is starting up immediately now. I will of course test again a few hours after the sun goes down, when it is ballzazz cold.

I ordered another relay to keep in the car as a spare, just in case. I really don't think my solder joints will be coming undone at point within the near future. I am also going to pick up other relays that may stop me in my tracks, as well as a few sensors, just to make sure I don't get caught with my pants down.

I will update this thread as I fix the other DTC errors picked up by VCDS (except the stereo, don't care about that one), just in case others have similar issues and come across this chain; maybe it will provide enough consolidated information that someone will benefit from it.

 

[wonneber]

Good diagnosis.

I had a 109 relay that had a bit of plastic keeping the moving arm from full travel and the car wouldn't start.

I got one from a local parts store and it worked OK but one in a while I had no dash lights again.

Got a real Bosch unit as a long shot (reasonable priced anyway) and never had a problem for several years (10+) until I sold the car 2 years ago.