2005 BEW PD lift pump operation and internals

trailhead

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Location
Don Valley Toronto
TDI
05sPD-BEWagon "Diesel Girl"
looking for confirmation

My daily driver 05 pd is running fine but, today I noticed the lift pump is dead silent. It reads 12.5v for ~1 second each time I turn on the key.



I tested the output at the filter by cycling the key on/off 15 times and the pump produced close to nothing in the catch.



Seems obvious the pump motor is gone. My question ( finally) is; Is it best to head to the dealer parts counter? or ???

Thanks much:)
 

mctdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Location
se WI
TDI
2010 Jetta
When the key is first turned on, the fuel pump in the tank is only powered for a short while. Until the engine starts, then there is constant power to the pump. One can usually hear the pump running when the car is idling, and cover is off under the rear seat.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
The pump is easily replaced. Directions are up in the first ten posts somewhere.

I would buy one from TheTDIWagonGuy (search for his threads on this site) or BoraParts.com, or IDParts.com.

Replacing only the pump/motor and keeping the original fuel pickup assembly is the best option, but theTDIWagonGuy has not had them available for quite a while now.

I would lose no sleep over going to the new style pump, though. They have proven to be very reliable. Much more so than the OEM ones.
 

PDJetta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 6, 2003
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
'04 Jetta GLS TDI Pumpe Duce Platinum Grey w/ Leather
Correct, Dan. I do not recall reading about a single failure of the VDO replacement lift pumps for the 1.9 PD. The VW dealer installed one of those at 46,000 miles on my '04 under warranty. If this failure happened 4000 miles later, my car would have been out of warranty! Same pump as the grey-top aftermarket VDO, but with VW logo and part number on it. I have 160,000 on the car now, so the VDO has 114,000 miles on it.

About six months after the new pump was installed I bought a spare from one of the vendors and I still have it in my trunk. That is how nervous I was/am about the pump quitting. The original failure was sudden and I did not know the engine was not running, since I just crested a hill. When I depressed the clutch to shift, the cluster lights illuminated because the RPM dropped to zero. That was my only clue. I attempted two restarts on the fly and then coasted off of the road and tried three times and knew it wold not start. I thought the ECU failed since there was no fuel starving sputters first. Called VW roadside assistance. Free tow to VW too.

One or two days before the failure I noticed a slightly louder "normal" pump sound as the key was turned on and I made a mental not to notice of it got louder. Other than that I was not concerned.

--Nate
 
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trailhead

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Location
Don Valley Toronto
TDI
05sPD-BEWagon "Diesel Girl"
Thanks for the replies gents.

I'm searching around for a motor for my oem pump. I've been driving mine for quite a while now with a dead pump, I really dislike the idea of replacing it with a pump that will leave me stranded if it fails. It seems like the replacement motors no longer exist:confused:. If that doesn't pan out I'll get the VDO.
 

nexus665

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Location
Austria
TDI
Golf 4 1.9 ALH MY2002
Hi,
a replacement pump can be had for not a lot of money - bought mine for 56 Eurobucks plus shipping, same unit as in all your pictures, seemingly the only pump you can get these days.

Vendor was tshopabs on e*ay, however it's listed they ship only to Europe. They do stock just the pumps without the whole plastic can/fuel level sender, as well, too, for around 30 Euros. IMO, ordering a whole new assembly makes more sense, you can mix and match too...if your preferred USA vendor doesn't have stock, maybe worth a try to shoot them an email?

BTW, I prefer a different layout than what's shown here on page 5 - if you use just a little more hose and let it bend at a slight angle (most hoses come rolled-up, anyway), it will easily clear the outlet pipe as that moves downwards on installation. Main benefit this way is that the hose doesn't have to twist (the loop from the tee to the outlet) and there is no mechanical stress on the short hose connecting the tee and the pump as there would be if the tee and the pump touched (would stretch one side and kink the other since there is hardly any free length).







This also allows the hose not to have to twist at all - you'll know what I mean if you used the stiff PU tubing...a good thing, as any twisting will make it kink way more easily. The last pic is fully compressed, on the mechanical stop. IMO it doesn't compress that far on installation.

No need to cut anything much, I'm using a metal Tee instead of the plastic ones. Reason being, it's way shorter - and seals perfectly.

You can rotate the pump motor in the plastic can, as well - making it easier to align the hoses to your liking. Having the outlet at the right place makes things simpler.

Thanks for all the info, people! Made it dead simple to perform the mod...down to the exact tubing length :D Now if I knew what relay to get, exactly...

Regards
 
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HPsenicka

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Location
Orangeville, Ontario
TDI
2 x 2004 Jetta Sport BEW (Malone Stage 1.5), 2014 GSW TDI - Wolfsburg Edition, 2015 Passat TDI -Sport Trim
I would buy one from TheTDIWagonGuy (search for his threads on this site) or BoraParts.com, or IDParts.com.

Replacing only the pump/motor and keeping the original fuel pickup assembly is the best option, but theTDIWagonGuy has not had them available for quite a while now.
I checked his site a few days ago, and it appears that the pump/motor is available once again.
 

azerite

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2006
Location
NYC
TDI
2010 Jetta Wagon, 2005 jetta
i had a quick question. My lift pump is making quite a bit of "suction" noise on anything below a 1/4 tank. I'm planning on replacing it, i set the fuel level yesterday because my gauge was off. When i took off the metal plate in the back seat i noticed that the wires on the harness were split. i assume the gauge was reading poorly because it uses resistance across the wire and it was split? Can i replace with an "alh" adapter and just cut the wires?

Also, when i put the unit back i bent one of the fuel return lines. Are these plastic? If so, i think i may have snapped it. The part numbers for mcallister are these the fuel lines that attach to the pump? Can I put something together to cut the line when i bent it and add with a new line?
 

cr4zy3lgato

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Location
Quebec city
TDI
Jetta 2000
You don't need a new "alh adapter" just slide the pink lock and remove the pins. You can replace them with new pins or repair wires. My fuel hose has been repaired with a short rubber hose and hose clamps, it works well but it made the install of the new pump a bit of a PITA...
 

Dimitri16V

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Location
DE
TDI
01 Golf, 04 Golf
Hi,
a replacement pump can be had for not a lot of money - bought mine for 56 Eurobucks plus shipping, same unit as in all your pictures, seemingly the only pump you can get these days.

Vendor was tshopabs on e*ay, however it's listed they ship only to Europe. They do stock just the pumps without the whole plastic can/fuel level sender, as well, too, for around 30 Euros. IMO, ordering a whole new assembly makes more sense, you can mix and match too...if your preferred USA vendor doesn't have stock, maybe worth a try to shoot them an email?

BTW, I prefer a different layout than what's shown here on page 5 - if you use just a little more hose and let it bend at a slight angle (most hoses come rolled-up, anyway), it will easily clear the outlet pipe as that moves downwards on installation. Main benefit this way is that the hose doesn't have to twist (the loop from the tee to the outlet) and there is no mechanical stress on the short hose connecting the tee and the pump as there would be if the tee and the pump touched (would stretch one side and kink the other since there is hardly any free length).







This also allows the hose not to have to twist at all - you'll know what I mean if you used the stiff PU tubing...a good thing, as any twisting will make it kink way more easily. The last pic is fully compressed, on the mechanical stop. IMO it doesn't compress that far on installation.

No need to cut anything much, I'm using a metal Tee instead of the plastic ones. Reason being, it's way shorter - and seals perfectly.

You can rotate the pump motor in the plastic can, as well - making it easier to align the hoses to your liking. Having the outlet at the right place makes things simpler.

Thanks for all the info, people! Made it dead simple to perform the mod...down to the exact tubing length :D Now if I knew what relay to get, exactly...

Regards
are those hoses high temp rated ?
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
I quit recommending the Left Coast Resident mod, because I think we created more actual problems than we fixed.

The hoses need to be diesel rated, high temperature rated, biodiesel rated (it is actually difficult to get hoses rated for both bio and diesel), and mechanically tough so that the clamps don't cut them.

Very difficult to find, then do in a high quality fashion.
 

azerite

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2006
Location
NYC
TDI
2010 Jetta Wagon, 2005 jetta
anybody know what the OD is of the plastic hoses that go on the fuel and return which connect to the pump? 5/16 maybe?
 

sc00byd00311

Veteran Member
Joined
May 31, 2012
Location
KC MO
TDI
04 Jetta (Zubie)
Another successful pump change thanks to you guys for the advice and help and TDIWagonGuy for the cheapest pumps available ($300 from local parts stores!). Mine died after I changed the fuel filter, I saw one other post with a similar story, so I thought i'd add my experience. Buttoned everything up after the filter swap, cycled the key 3 times and heard the pump working but stopped activating when I cycled the key 4th and 5th time. Lesson is, stop cycling the key after 2 times and aim for a fire on the 3rd. Ha ha, seriously though, the lesson is have one of these pumps on hand when you do a filter change! I even dumped the fuel from the old filter into the new one. Ingrate.
 

GDBC

Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2014
Location
Vancouver BC
TDI
2004 Golf
Hi

Thanks for all the great info! This is a super thread, but I'm finding myself a bit overwhelmed with all information.

My storey is that I recently discovered that the lift pump in my 2004 pd golf is dead. I discovered this while doing a filter change.
I was doing the filter change because I only recently got this car ,and after running through two tanks of fuel I thought the milage wasn't as good as it should be (32mpg around the ciy)

Luckily I got the car started by using a friend's vacuum pump to prime the engine, as recomended somewhere in this thread (thanks!)

At the time I investiagted the lift pump - the portion of the lift pump I can see from the passenger seat is tan coloured, and when the engine is running there is 12V at its power connector.

I took a shot at loosening the big plastic nut that holds the pump in the tank, but got nowhere using a hammer and screw driver (I didn't want to chew up the teeth...i was proabbly too gentle...)


Anyway....Now I'm wondering what the recomended course of action for me is?

It seems that buying a new 'no suffix' pump and modding it has gone out of style.

That leaves the choice of a replacement motor for the pump I have, or installing a whole new pump.

I don't like the idea of the new pump leaving me stranded when it fails, but doing a pump motor swap isn't exactly risk free either.
what if I break something or find another problem? Then Im stuck with no car while I track down parts....
And, are the new pumps as unreliable as the old ones?

More background info - Im in Vancouver BC, i'm pretty handy (swapped starters, done brakes myself etc), but I"m currently living in an apartment and having to work on the car on the street.

I'm keen to hear why you guys have to say.

thanks

George
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
George,
I would buy a replacement assembly, do no mods to it, and simply install it.
They are much more reliable than the old ones, and seem much more reliable than replacing the motor/pump in your old unit.

Work the sending unit up and down in your new pump a dozen times, pushing in on the contact area (place where it rubs) in order to wipe off a glaze and allow it to read properly before installing it.

Try getting a piece of hardwood or brass to use instead of a screwdriver. Beat on one tooth for a bit, then go across to the other side and do that one, work around the wheel tapping on all the teeth. It WILL come off.
 

LNXGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Location
Barrie, Ont, Canada
TDI
'05 Jetta TDI Wagon
That ring can be a pita if it's never been removed before. A few light taps on it like Dan said and she'll start to move. Don't go crazy on it.
 

GDBC

Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2014
Location
Vancouver BC
TDI
2004 Golf
Thanks Dan,

It looks like I can buy off ebay for 160$ or off IDparts for 230$

Do you think these are going to be the same pump? The IDparts one is by Seimans, the ebay one doesn't specify who made it.

George
 

shuswap

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2010
Location
British Columbia
TDI
05 Golf TDI BEW auto
George, it's pretty straightforward to swap pump canisters out, just a few gotchas come to mind:

The 2 spigots that attach the hoses to the top of the tank break off easily if a tool slips. Learn how to disconnect the hose fittings BEFORE attempting their removal

The ring comes off ok if you tap one side, move and tap again, move to a new spot for each tap.

Don't do this with a full tank or diesel will spill everywhere.

Don't buy a junk pump(not sure how you can tell the difference)

If you get stuck let me know I'm in Port Moody and have done this several times, so free help is nearby.

It's my opinion that using the original canister is best but changing out the pump motor is a bit tougher, lots of fiddly stuff and stiff hose and clamps to deal with. If you go the canister route you might find someone who would like to have that yellow one, eh?
 
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GDBC

Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2014
Location
Vancouver BC
TDI
2004 Golf
Hi,

I got a german pump from Bora Parts and got it in. The car seems happier for it!
I"m going to keep the old one around for a while. One rainy day I"ll look into how I would swap the motor and keep it as a spare.

thanks for all the advice!
 

jettasetta

Banned con artist and self-proclaimed victim
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Location
San Diego
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS MK4 PD-BEW 5SP-EUH TDI
Great Post! I'll be doing this very soon.

Now that some time has elapsed does conventional wisdom come back to going with an OEM replacement? Bora is selling them for $200 as of this writing. I thought of buying the OEM LP and then trying to recondition my old one to be up and ready for when the new one fails. Does anyone know if the one sold by ID parts - made by Seimans and the OEM from VW are one and the same?

Would the TDIWagonGuy 's replacement motor (as shown in link below) work in a tan OEM lift pump?


http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=336104
 
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DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Yes, I would not do a suction mod. Just use a new OEM type pump.

The tdiwagonguy's replacement motor will work, but I would ensure that the discharge nozzle was shortened a bit. Otherwise you can only use a dime size section of suction screen. You need to ensure you have about 2mm of clearance (at least) between the screen and the end of the nozzle.

Not sure of any pump differences now. But several years ago, the one from Bora and the one available from VW was exactly the same.
 

jettasetta

Banned con artist and self-proclaimed victim
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Location
San Diego
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS MK4 PD-BEW 5SP-EUH TDI
Seems like good advice, but from a devil’s advocate perspective…. Why replace a lift pump at all?

Does it really do anything other than prime the fuel system after a filter change or other fuel system service? I really don’t know because my lift pump has been non-operational for the entire 19 months that I have owned my 05 BEW PD. I say this because I have never heard it hum or make any sound whatsoever and have certainly listened for it. Only recently, when I lost prime did I become aware of an actual need for it. Since I bought a MityVac pump (a $75 investment), in order to reestablish prime, after having sucked air into the system, by allowing my Diesel Purge can to run too low, what use is there for a (reoccurring $200+ investment) lift pump now? I can always reestablish prime with the MityVac. My car has always run fine, even when the tank is quite low (after the indicator light lights).

Is there actually any performance or MPG benefit from having a functional lift pump?
 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
Seems like good advice, but from a devil’s advocate perspective…. Why replace a lift pump at all?

Does it really do anything other than prime the fuel system after a filter change or other fuel system service? I really don’t know because my lift pump has been non-operational for the entire 19 months that I have owned my 05 BEW PD. I say this because I have never heard it hum or make any sound whatsoever and have certainly listened for it. Only recently, when I lost prime did I become aware of an actual need for it. Since I bought a MityVac pump (a $75 investment), in order to reestablish prime, after having sucked air into the system, by allowing my Diesel Purge can to run too low, what use is there for a (reoccurring $200+ investment) lift pump now? I can always reestablish prime with the MityVac. My car has always run fine, even when the tank is quite low (after the indicator light lights).

Is there actually any performance or MPG benefit from having a functional lift pump?
there may not be a mpg difference but it puts extra load on the tandem pump and will eventually cause it to fail ... tandem pump was designed to pressurize the head, not suck fuel from the tank and through the LP ... even though it can doesn't mean it should ... tandem pump is also more expensive than the LP and a bit more time consuming to replace
 

GDBC

Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2014
Location
Vancouver BC
TDI
2004 Golf
Seems like good advice, but from a devil’s advocate perspective…. Why replace a lift pump at all?
Hi,
I think my new lift pump did make the car start easier and idle smoother. it may even have added some power.
I did the job hoping for mpg gains, but given the nature of what the lift pump does, there's isn't really any reason to think that will happen. I haven't driven enough yet to say if its made a difference to mpg.
 

jettasetta

Banned con artist and self-proclaimed victim
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Location
San Diego
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS MK4 PD-BEW 5SP-EUH TDI
Why replace a lift pump at all?

Does it really do anything ... Is there actually any performance or MPG benefit from having a functional lift pump?
there may not be a mpg difference but it puts extra load on the tandem pump and will eventually cause it to fail ... tandem pump was designed to pressurize the head, not suck fuel from the tank and through the LP ... even though it can doesn't mean it should ... tandem pump is also more expensive than the LP and a bit more time consuming to replace
That's good enough for me.
I just hope that installing a new one won't reduce mileage as suggested by another poster in this thread.
 

jettasetta

Banned con artist and self-proclaimed victim
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Location
San Diego
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS MK4 PD-BEW 5SP-EUH TDI
Hi, I think my new lift pump did make the car start easier and idle smoother. it may even have added some power.
I did the job hoping for mpg gains, but given the nature of what the lift pump does, there's isn't really any reason to think that will happen. I haven't driven enough yet to say if its made a difference to mpg.
Good to hear. My non-op lift pump explains why, when starting, it cranks around 1 second longer than it should. I'll look forward to gaining back these valuable seconds and look to what ever other gains may come.
 

Lensdude_com

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2004
Location
Edmonton, AB
TDI
99.5 MK4 Jetta (ALH) "Betty" (sold), 2005 MK4 Jetta (BEW) "Stinky-Pete"
...yes, it's sooo like VW engineers/designers to add frivolous equipment :D
The extra cranking time means extra wear and extra work for the alternator means extra work for the engine which means more fuel.
...just add that to all the other benefits of the PD lift-pump previously mentioned in the last 17 pages of this thread.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
They actually sold PDs in someparts of the world without lift pumps. They later added lift pumps to the same models. I never figured they did it so that they could drop their profit margins a bit.

But.. I have found PDs here in the US that were 5 years old, running fine without a fuse in the lift pump circuit. Their owners never had any issues until they changed the fuel filters, or an air leak occurred.

Two of the owners told me that they had increased power above 3500 rpm with the fuel filter. Two said the only difference they noted was the one second shorter cranking time.

I did end up replacing the tandem pump in two of them (often long after replacing the lift pump) and often wondered if the lack of the lift pump caused faster wear in the tandem pump. They both started experiencing 30 second cranks to start, caused by worn tandem pumps allowing fuel the fuel lines to empty when parked overnight.

But there is not enough data for me to draw conclusions from, with authority.
 
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