scotclayshooter
Member
I thought it might be that, So thats more volume as well?bf1967 said:
2005 BEW PD lift pump operation and internals
- Thread starter DanG144
- Start date
verbalnoncents
Veteran Member
My Tank is full of diesel... how many gallons or litres should I siphon off before I take out this pump?
Whats the easiest / cheapest way to siphon out the diesel?
Hose into the tank and suck a little then let gravity do it's part?
I think canadian tire sells a siphoning gadget...
I will probably buy some big utility bucket from HD as they are huge and cheaper than buying a bunch of diesels jerry cans that I'll never use again.
Ps where is the cheapest place in Canada to buy these pumps??
I am in the Toronto area. VW dealerships/ autoparts want $439 here!
I imagine shipping and duty would make this expensive from the st ates but the $208 boraparts one sounds like a great deal!
Whats the easiest / cheapest way to siphon out the diesel?
Hose into the tank and suck a little then let gravity do it's part?
I think canadian tire sells a siphoning gadget...
I will probably buy some big utility bucket from HD as they are huge and cheaper than buying a bunch of diesels jerry cans that I'll never use again.
Ps where is the cheapest place in Canada to buy these pumps??
I am in the Toronto area. VW dealerships/ autoparts want $439 here!
I imagine shipping and duty would make this expensive from the st ates but the $208 boraparts one sounds like a great deal!
yosso
Well-known member
Get the tank as empty as possible - minimize the chance of spillage.verbalnoncents said:
verbalnoncents
Veteran Member
Here is the sound my in tank fuel pump makes.... does this sound normal?
I thought it was supposed to be more a hum than a shudder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsTUyJvEawo
thanks for listening...
I thought it was supposed to be more a hum than a shudder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsTUyJvEawo
thanks for listening...
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bf1967
Veteran Member
That doesn't sound good. Mine makes a hum and a slight gurgling.
It sounds like something is bound up in your pump. If you pull the hose off at the fuel filter are you getting any fuel out?
If you end up replacing it, you'll want to get as much of the fuel out of the tank as possible or your going to have a mess. You should be able to use an extractor of some type to suck the fuel out thru one of the lines going into the tank. Luckily, I've never had to do it, so that's the best advice I can give at this time. My tank has been at half or less when I've pulled the pump.
Bob
It sounds like something is bound up in your pump. If you pull the hose off at the fuel filter are you getting any fuel out?
If you end up replacing it, you'll want to get as much of the fuel out of the tank as possible or your going to have a mess. You should be able to use an extractor of some type to suck the fuel out thru one of the lines going into the tank. Luckily, I've never had to do it, so that's the best advice I can give at this time. My tank has been at half or less when I've pulled the pump.
Bob
verbalnoncents
Veteran Member
Car is working fine today... it doesn't sound good to me either...
Tank is full right now... I am going to go away on the weekend to cottage country so will use up all my gas then... hopefully car doesn't stall on the highway or in the middle of nowhere.
Thanks Bob and everyone else
Jeff
Tank is full right now... I am going to go away on the weekend to cottage country so will use up all my gas then... hopefully car doesn't stall on the highway or in the middle of nowhere.
Thanks Bob and everyone else
Jeff
DanG144
Top Post Dawg
I have pulled a lift pump with 3/4 tank indicated.
I think 10 gallons from completely empty or 6.5 gallons from completly filled (vented and at neck) would work.
As everyone else says, the emptier the better.
I have used a fluid evacuator (similar to a Pella or large mityvac) to pull the fuel from the tank. This only works with an OEM pump assembly, or one that has been modified (Left Coast Resident, or LCR pump suction modification.)
If it wants to leave you, apply strong vibrations to the bottom of the tank or the top of the fuel pump assembly. This may seat the brushes enough to get you home.
I think 10 gallons from completely empty or 6.5 gallons from completly filled (vented and at neck) would work.
As everyone else says, the emptier the better.
I have used a fluid evacuator (similar to a Pella or large mityvac) to pull the fuel from the tank. This only works with an OEM pump assembly, or one that has been modified (Left Coast Resident, or LCR pump suction modification.)
If it wants to leave you, apply strong vibrations to the bottom of the tank or the top of the fuel pump assembly. This may seat the brushes enough to get you home.
Just to add some info about the ele. fuel pump. Here is a picture of the brushes and commutator from the dead fuel pump out of my Golf. The pump was dead and replaced back at 271,214 miles.
I finally took the time to open the motor and look.
I finally took the time to open the motor and look.
rentstdi
Veteran Member
I know the lift pump runs on a PD during the first couple of seconds of having the ignition switch turned to the on position but does it turn on while the engine is running? Mine currently isn't operating to test it out but I do have one on order after todays problems
DanG144
Top Post Dawg
Yes, it runs as long as the engine runs.
When starting engine the pump only runs for a few seconds, stops as engine cranks, once engine is running the pump restarts and runs 100%.rentstdi said:
When the OEM ele. pump had gone out, I had the pump connector off to measure voltage at the connector and current load for 10-15 min. Checking and rechecking. Voltage was there, but no current load. Resistance of the motor was infinite, an open. The time from when I noticed the pump might be gone to replacement, was close to two weeks. The time from when I knew the pump was gone to replacement, was 3 days. And there was no hard starting either cold or hot, what brought me to the pump was high fuel temps. At the mileage I put on the car the two weeks was over 2,000 miles. I did not think the car should be able to run without the ele. pump, but it did with the org. OEM. I will have to try it with the new VW pump.
With bad pump -
Thanks DanG144 for the write-up. It was a great help with the pictures. As I replaced my 2004 Golf's fuel pump last night. The car has been running rough for a little over a month, mostly when cold. Fuel temps were over 80'C at 70 MPH. Checked things out this week - volt age at pump connector with car running, but no current load through pump, fuel pressure at filter inlet was 5 in.Hg [vacuum].
rentstdi
Veteran Member
Makes me wonder how long my pump hasn't worked. i have the voltage but no flow. Good thing I have the special pump.
DanG144
Top Post Dawg
I updated post #70 which tells how to modify the pump suction, with some additional details.
By the way, the suction modification will allow you to pull fuel on every new pump I tried it on.
There is a vacuum breaker on the pump, that will allow it to suck air in, but that is obviously set at a much higher vacuum than required to lift the fuel.
By the way, the suction modification will allow you to pull fuel on every new pump I tried it on.
There is a vacuum breaker on the pump, that will allow it to suck air in, but that is obviously set at a much higher vacuum than required to lift the fuel.
SoaceMunky
Veteran Member
if i may direct you to my photobucket post of the pump replacement
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=274268
it most likely burnt out the commutator, most likely a few coils at a time, when it becomes worn and dirty.
i'm not sure where the residue is from, or it its the culprit. direct measurement of the pads supports that theory.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=274268
it most likely burnt out the commutator, most likely a few coils at a time, when it becomes worn and dirty.
i'm not sure where the residue is from, or it its the culprit. direct measurement of the pads supports that theory.
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fuforums
Well-known member
I pulled mine today and it was all gunked up. I couldn't hear it running, though so I hooked it to a battery and it did run. It was so bad I was getting stalls less than half a tank. I cleaned it all out and am hoping it's good for a long time now. The ring was easy to get off but hard to get back on or at least, get started. I used two screwdrivers and pushed on the tabs with them on opposite sides of the ring. Once it was started it tapped it tightly back to alignment of the arrow with a hammer and screwdriver. My tank was full of biodiesel but it wasn't that bad. Just have to remove SLOWLY and turn it over to get all the fuel out. Keep rags all around to catch spills. Here are some pictures:
Oh the humanity!
Oh the humanity!
DanG144
Top Post Dawg
Joe,
I would perform frequent checks to see if your lift pump runs reliably.
Quite often they will become intermittent, and will get worse and worse. This is normally due to the brushes and commutator wearing out.
Moving the pump (slapping the bottom of the tank, for example) will often get it to run again for a short while. Until you can buy a new one.
I would perform frequent checks to see if your lift pump runs reliably.
Quite often they will become intermittent, and will get worse and worse. This is normally due to the brushes and commutator wearing out.
Moving the pump (slapping the bottom of the tank, for example) will often get it to run again for a short while. Until you can buy a new one.
GregNew2TDI
Well-known member
I purchased the new pump and was wondering if any of y'all tried to salvage one of the connections of the larger ribbed tube. I was thinking of leaving the one on the bottom attached while putting the other end into the T (one less opportunity for me to eff up). Also, any ideas to get tube off of the barbed male end without destroying it? I was thinking of heat, but I don't want it to expand so much I can't get a good seal for the reinstall. Also, I noticed on the white portion of the pump there appears to be a clip holder for a hose near the return tube from the engine. Any idears what that's for?
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DanG144
Top Post Dawg
I have never had any luck getting the hose off, even with heat. I have always had to cut it off.
No idea on the clip.
No idea on the clip.
nate379
Veteran Member
sps
Veteran Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2004
- Location
- united kingdom
- TDI
- 2004 vw bora 1.9 tdi pd triptronic(130bhp)5speed auto
hi there.hope you can help.
was this replacement done on a pd in-tank diesel pump?
what is the original part number on the yellow cover on top of the plastic pump assembly?
what yr car was this for ?
rentstdi
Veteran Member
sps
Veteran Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2004
- Location
- united kingdom
- TDI
- 2004 vw bora 1.9 tdi pd triptronic(130bhp)5speed auto
.
thanks for the answers which are very helpful.
my final question is about the vag part number on the pump assembly that you replaced was it 1J0 919 050B?.-This should be stamped somewhere on the pale yellow top cover where the electrical coonector sits and the outlet and return hoses sit.,-you may need to clear any dust on that yellow cover to see it clearly.
this information would help me ascertain that your amd my pump are the same or not.
meistertech
Member
2003 Jetta TDI wagon - fuel pickup - CEL/P0252/IP noise
I just pulled my fuel pickup assy out, thanx for the excellent information and photographs about the spring clips, helped immensely.
My system doesn't have a lift pump.
There was a lot of crud on the bottom. So I'm hoping that will be the issue...
I bought it with around 150k on it, first tank of BioDiesel caused issues... suspect it cleaned things up and clogged filters. Had my injectors rebuilt and cleaned, had two bad ones, doubt it was from BioDiesel. (It really disturbs me when I see someone talk about BioDiesel and the reply talks about WVO, they are completely different. I've done both, worlds of difference.)
Have a few shots of the injectors here: http://fotomeister.us/2010/10-Oct-27-Fall-cats-TDI/ALL.html need to move the tech stuff over when I get time.
I'm having an issue with P0252 CEL and hammering sounds coming from the pump. If I do a Diesel Purge it quiets down and I can clear the light. After changing the filter and a purge it'll run as it did before, solid, fast... but then after a day or two it starts hammering and CEL comes on again.
Because the symptoms change after a filter change or Diesel Purge I'm guardedly optimistic it's not the IP.
I'm hoping that the cleaning of the pickup will make a difference... otherwise it could be the IP itself. I would like to clean the top part of the pump, but need a special socket. Will post pictures later.
ANYONE KNOW WHERE I CAN get the socket to take the top cover off of an ALH TDI? It's around 8mm, or 9/32nd, but not quite... they have one on each corner of the critical parts. The scoundrels... they knew I'd take it apart if I could...
I'm going to put the mighty vac on the fuel line going to the filter and prime the system and see if there are any obstructions before attempting a start. Prayers are welcome... it's the day between my 35th wedding anniversary and my birthday, took the day off to work on my TDI...
Will post details of my fuel setup at:
http://johnmeister.com/DIESELS/tdi/
not sure what I'll call the directory yet... fuel pickup or something like that... look for the ALL.html file. Have other info there as I dial this thing in. I've built up wagoneers.com for jeeps and Mercedes Diesels but have moved all the Diesel stuff pretty much over to johnmeister.com... it's all on one server, three different domains...
I just pulled my fuel pickup assy out, thanx for the excellent information and photographs about the spring clips, helped immensely.
My system doesn't have a lift pump.
There was a lot of crud on the bottom. So I'm hoping that will be the issue...
I bought it with around 150k on it, first tank of BioDiesel caused issues... suspect it cleaned things up and clogged filters. Had my injectors rebuilt and cleaned, had two bad ones, doubt it was from BioDiesel. (It really disturbs me when I see someone talk about BioDiesel and the reply talks about WVO, they are completely different. I've done both, worlds of difference.)
Have a few shots of the injectors here: http://fotomeister.us/2010/10-Oct-27-Fall-cats-TDI/ALL.html need to move the tech stuff over when I get time.
I'm having an issue with P0252 CEL and hammering sounds coming from the pump. If I do a Diesel Purge it quiets down and I can clear the light. After changing the filter and a purge it'll run as it did before, solid, fast... but then after a day or two it starts hammering and CEL comes on again.
Because the symptoms change after a filter change or Diesel Purge I'm guardedly optimistic it's not the IP.
I'm hoping that the cleaning of the pickup will make a difference... otherwise it could be the IP itself. I would like to clean the top part of the pump, but need a special socket. Will post pictures later.
ANYONE KNOW WHERE I CAN get the socket to take the top cover off of an ALH TDI? It's around 8mm, or 9/32nd, but not quite... they have one on each corner of the critical parts.
The scoundrels... they knew I'd take it apart if I could...I'm going to put the mighty vac on the fuel line going to the filter and prime the system and see if there are any obstructions before attempting a start. Prayers are welcome... it's the day between my 35th wedding anniversary and my birthday, took the day off to work on my TDI...
Will post details of my fuel setup at:
http://johnmeister.com/DIESELS/tdi/
not sure what I'll call the directory yet... fuel pickup or something like that... look for the ALL.html file. Have other info there as I dial this thing in. I've built up wagoneers.com for jeeps and Mercedes Diesels but have moved all the Diesel stuff pretty much over to johnmeister.com... it's all on one server, three different domains...
PDJetta
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2003
- Location
- Northern Virginia
- TDI
- '04 Jetta GLS TDI Pumpe Duce Platinum Grey w/ Leather
"ANYONE KNOW WHERE I CAN get the socket to take the top cover off of an ALH TDI?"
Try here:
http://www.metalnerd.com/
--Nate
Try here:
http://www.metalnerd.com/
--Nate
meistertech
Member
added a prefilter to TDI filter (2003 Jetta)
http://johnmeister.com/DIESELS/tdi/TDI-fuel-pickup-filter/ALL.html
cleaned the fuel pickup... ran diesel purge... still spitting up p0252 code and making noise in pump, no power...
need that special socket to get the top of the pump off, one last effort to clean the metering assembly before swapping the IP...
Nate, Thanx for the link... will check it out...
http://johnmeister.com/DIESELS/tdi/TDI-fuel-pickup-filter/ALL.html
cleaned the fuel pickup... ran diesel purge... still spitting up p0252 code and making noise in pump, no power...
need that special socket to get the top of the pump off, one last effort to clean the metering assembly before swapping the IP...
Nate, Thanx for the link... will check it out...
bookdiva
New member
Trouble with stalling cant hear lift pump
I have been having trouble with stalling. Car starts fine (garage heated to 50 degrees) and then when I drive for a few minutes car stalls and has to be cranked for 20 - 30 seconds to restart, then immediately stalls again when shift is moved. Last time this happened I spent 20 minutes trying to restart car. I use Stanadyne and this is my first winter with this car, which I bought used in March. Changed the fuel filter today and the deisel looked clear. Sometimes the car drives fine and then I have trouble with the next restart. After reading on this forum I decided to listen for the lift pump. I flipped the seat up, took off the cover and turned the key so that the glowplug light comes on-heard nothing.
I should also mention that the local (Warsaw, Indiana) hot shot foreign car repair shop in the area replaced my glowplugs right after I got the car because it threw the code for faulty 2 and 4 plugs. A week later when I discovered the glowplug recall mess on this forum and my car blinked the check engine light again, I returned to hot shot repair and they said. lets replace wiring harness and you need new programing for the glowplugs. $200 for harness and $300 for new program. I asked, "What glowplugs did you install in my car-ceramic or metal?" Service manager tells me he does not know and can't find out. When I say, "Without knowing the type of plug how are you going to give me the right program?" He tells me he doesn't need to know the type of plug to install the program. I never darkened their door again. I sprayed some decorrosion stuff in the #2 glowplug harnes spot and put some di-electric (spelling?) grease in there and no more check engine light for 7 months.
But back to the stalling. I am not a mechanic, but I am game, if I have good instructions. I can replace some parts. I've done a water pump and windshield wiper motor on an 1990 s-10; rebuilt the carberator on my Volare station wagon. Is this a job for a rookie? And also, is there a mechanic this forum trusts within a 1.5 hour drive from me?
I should also mention that the stalling seems to start when the tank is 1/3 to 1/2 empty.
Hi,
I have been having trouble with stalling. Car starts fine (garage heated to 50 degrees) and then when I drive for a few minutes car stalls and has to be cranked for 20 - 30 seconds to restart, then immediately stalls again when shift is moved. Last time this happened I spent 20 minutes trying to restart car. I use Stanadyne and this is my first winter with this car, which I bought used in March. Changed the fuel filter today and the deisel looked clear. Sometimes the car drives fine and then I have trouble with the next restart. After reading on this forum I decided to listen for the lift pump. I flipped the seat up, took off the cover and turned the key so that the glowplug light comes on-heard nothing.
I should also mention that the local (Warsaw, Indiana) hot shot foreign car repair shop in the area replaced my glowplugs right after I got the car because it threw the code for faulty 2 and 4 plugs. A week later when I discovered the glowplug recall mess on this forum and my car blinked the check engine light again, I returned to hot shot repair and they said. lets replace wiring harness and you need new programing for the glowplugs. $200 for harness and $300 for new program. I asked, "What glowplugs did you install in my car-ceramic or metal?" Service manager tells me he does not know and can't find out. When I say, "Without knowing the type of plug how are you going to give me the right program?" He tells me he doesn't need to know the type of plug to install the program. I never darkened their door again. I sprayed some decorrosion stuff in the #2 glowplug harnes spot and put some di-electric (spelling?) grease in there and no more check engine light for 7 months.
But back to the stalling. I am not a mechanic, but I am game, if I have good instructions. I can replace some parts. I've done a water pump and windshield wiper motor on an 1990 s-10; rebuilt the carberator on my Volare station wagon. Is this a job for a rookie? And also, is there a mechanic this forum trusts within a 1.5 hour drive from me?
I should also mention that the stalling seems to start when the tank is 1/3 to 1/2 empty.
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DanG144
Top Post Dawg
This job is easier than the others you have mentioned. I would expect you to have no trouble.
for testing see post #7,
for replacement see post #5
for suction modification so your car can run when the electric pump dies, see post #70.
for testing see post #7,
for replacement see post #5
for suction modification so your car can run when the electric pump dies, see post #70.
TDI2Fan
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2004
- Location
- Fredericksburg, VA
- TDI
- 2000/2001/2002/2004/2009 Jetta GLS Auto/Auto/5M/5M/DSG 2010 A3/DSG
I have the stopped while driving problem with my PD. Car is currently in Southern NY. No TDI Guru's in the area. Dennis (Marquette Auto) is the closest. I did not get a VCDS scan nor any other info other that no fuel pressure from the garage that diagnosed the problem.
I have a new lift pump and filter on its way from Impex.
I will post back the info.
I have a new lift pump and filter on its way from Impex.
I will post back the info.
halocline
Veteran Member
Dan, I'm planning on the suction mod for my new lift pump which is on the way. Any updates about tubing? I have a friend (airline engineer) who said that viton has better chemical resistance than polyurethane. (You probably already know that) I guess the problem with the viton was pressure-related, correct? So the best tubing would have the chemical resistance of the viton and be able to withstand combination pressure/temp?
That viton tubing is pricey....$16/ft at mcmaster-carr.
Thanks for the great write up and for staying with this thread.
That viton tubing is pricey....$16/ft at mcmaster-carr.
Thanks for the great write up and for staying with this thread.
DanG144
Top Post Dawg
The price was what pushed me away from viton.
The pressures are low, and were not a problem for even the thin viton.
Viton is not as tough or as strong as the PE, it rips easily in the thinner varieties, so you have to have the thicker stuff. I had one of the thin viton hoses split where it went over the barb; someone else reported a similar instance.
The viton kinks very easily, mandating longer lengths.
The longer lengths of the thicker viton cost a lot of money.
So I tried the PE. I still have not found anything better. I do think it will last as long as the pumps last, on average. More than two dozen of the rigs have been built and installed using my list of stuff. No problems reported yet.
The materials can be kept to $20 or less with my list above if you build a bunch of them. I provide the area with them at GTG's etc. I usually help install them as well.
I would welcome any new materials that would be cheaper or better.
The pressures are low, and were not a problem for even the thin viton.
Viton is not as tough or as strong as the PE, it rips easily in the thinner varieties, so you have to have the thicker stuff. I had one of the thin viton hoses split where it went over the barb; someone else reported a similar instance.
The viton kinks very easily, mandating longer lengths.
The longer lengths of the thicker viton cost a lot of money.
So I tried the PE. I still have not found anything better. I do think it will last as long as the pumps last, on average. More than two dozen of the rigs have been built and installed using my list of stuff. No problems reported yet.
The materials can be kept to $20 or less with my list above if you build a bunch of them. I provide the area with them at GTG's etc. I usually help install them as well.
I would welcome any new materials that would be cheaper or better.