2005 1.9 conversion into 2004 jeep without a ECU

nammac

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Location
Milledgeville Ga.
TDI
2005 1.9
I have a 2005 Jetta 1.9 and a 2004 TJ jeep 4.0 I am doing a conversion. The Jeep is a casualty of last summers Portland riots. Looks like the fire was started under the hood and the computer and wiring harness are toast. Will the 1.9 run without the jeep having a computer. I am looking for a jeep computer but they are pricey and then when I find one it will probably have to be flashed from my vin number? I know I would need a jeep computer for the guages to work but will it effect anything with the 1.9. I am new to this diesel engine stuff but am comfortable with gas engines.
 

Straypoet

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2020
Location
Florida
TDI
BHW 2.0, soon to be in my Wrangler.
The engine will run without the Jeep computer yes.
however, you would need the jeep computer to control your stock gauges ect.
I think the TJ computer also controls things like delay wipers, and the charging circuit.

A solution would be to use standalone gauges, or to retrofit the cluster out of the Jetta.

I assume that your application is a manual transmission?

Also, I noticed your reply to my YouTube video :)
 

nammac

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Location
Milledgeville Ga.
TDI
2005 1.9
Yes, I saw your fantastic video on you tube. The jeep is a manual transmission, pulled the motor today. My son and I did a GM 5.3 vortex conversion to my 2004 jeep about 4 years ago. I've been wanting to do a diesel conversion for the fuel mileage. I found this latest 04 TJ about 15 miles from me and then began to look for a VW with the 1.9. I might have gotten screwed on the vw, not sure yet. Once I got it home and put it on my lift I found a hole in the oil pan. I did crank it very briefly and it seemed to run ok. So I am interested in your engine stand and being able to run the engine before installing it. Would my engine crank without reprogramming the computer?
 

Straypoet

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2020
Location
Florida
TDI
BHW 2.0, soon to be in my Wrangler.
Would my engine crank without reprogramming the computer?
You can actually start it without removing the immobilizer, but it will only run for about 15 seconds before the ECM will shut it down without the immobilizer, so not really enough time to do anything useful.

Removing the immobilizer can be done for about $200 by most of the tuners, or; if you are electrically and computer inclined, you can buy the tool and do it yourself. (this is what I did), but the finer details of removing the EGR controls, and remapping the throttle response is still something I am learning.

I decided to do it myself for the same reason I am making my own adaptor plate instead of buying one; I enjoy the learning and figuring things out. So if you just want results, I suggest paying someone to do it for you. Less time that is for sure.

if you just want the immobilizer removed for testing purposes, and you are ever down near central FL, I would be happy to remove it for you for free.
( I see you are in GA)

Edit:
If you did transplant the Jetta gauges into the jeep, you could cut out the transponder chip, and glue it to the transponder coil, and not have to remove the immobilizer at all.
 

nammac

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Location
Milledgeville Ga.
TDI
2005 1.9
I think I had rather keep the jeep gauges as they are, using a jeep computer--once I locate one.. So anything short of transplanting the complete wiring harness of the vw, the immobilizer isn't going to let the engine run. Are most people paying to have the immobilizer reprogrammed or removed? For the $200 does that include removing the EGR controls and remapping the throttle response in addition to removing the immobilizer?
 

nammac

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Location
Milledgeville Ga.
TDI
2005 1.9
What are the negatives in permanently removing the immobilizer other than security? I just watched a you tube video on how to remove it and took a screen shot. Can't figure out how to post the picture in this message.
 

Straypoet

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2020
Location
Florida
TDI
BHW 2.0, soon to be in my Wrangler.
Are most people paying to have the immobilizer reprogrammed or removed? For the $200 does that include removing the EGR controls and remapping the throttle response in addition to removing the immobilizer?
What are the negatives in permanently removing the immobilizer other than security?
Different tuners will charge different rates; but generally I have seen that an immobilizer delete is separate from the other modifications, like the EGR, DPF (if you have one) ect. I would talk to a tuner to be sure, or others who went that route. You don't' have to remove EGR, and some wouldn't want to. (for instance if your state has emissions inspections) remapping throttle response isn't required either, some just go with a stock ECM with the immobilizer removed.

You may have to remove, or can-bus-spoof the transmission response though. (ECM trying to talk to the now non-existent transmission) I haven't gotten there with mine yet, so I am not an expert on that yet.

The immobilizer is only a security thing. It has no effect other than allowing the engine to run without a transponder key.
 

nammac

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Location
Milledgeville Ga.
TDI
2005 1.9
I am not in a area which conducts state emission inspections. Guess I need to locate a tuner who others have used and explain exactly what my setup will be. I think I will attempt to remove the under the dash wiring harness and gauges tomorrow. not going to be fun. thanks
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Nammac if you're still around the Portland area, I've used the guys at Cascade German Parts for a few things in the past and have been happy with their service. They are a Malone dealer for tuning, you can check out the specs and different options on the Malone website. I have a BHW swap from a Passat that the did the immobilizer delete, auto to manual, and a few other things. Works great, when the bus is actually together and running. :rolleyes: I'm working on that though.
 

nammac

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Location
Milledgeville Ga.
TDI
2005 1.9
I am actually about 2700 miles from Portland--middle Ga. The 2004 jeep I just purchased off of Marketplace was in Portland last summer. The guy I got it from was his sons. When the father relocated to Ga. he brought the jeep planning on putting it back together at some point. So I 1st bought the 05 Jetta and the jeep a few days later. I have a 04 TJ I drive daily that my son and I installed a 5.3 vortex engine in about 4 years ago. Poor gas mileage but it will fly. lol. I've been wanting to install a diesel in a jeep for quite awhile so now it is about to happen. All wiring was pretty much burned up from the fire along with the computer. I have some parts from a totaled 01 tj I bought maybe 6 years ago. I have both engines pulled currently and am trying to get a wiring harness put back into the jeep. Also I am looking for a computer. I understand the only function for the jeep ECU is to run the stock gauges. Does anyone know if I get a used ECU off of ebay for the jeep will it have to be flashed? Also, how do I determine which wires from the VW will I need to use and which to discard. I don't have to worry about emission testing in my area. I am definitely more knowledgeable with gas engines than diesel. Also, I wasn't able to really check out the 1.9 before removing the engine--hole in the oil pan. So i would like to make this motor run before installing it. I am new to the forum and haven't had time to really explore it. Probably most of my question are already detailed in there somewhere. Thanks
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Shoot, I see that now in an earlier post. Dang reading comprehension fails me again. Not sure about how far away you are, but I know the MF Auto guys in Knoxville have always done right by me, I grew up in East TN. You can check on the malone website for closer dealers though. I think apr or upsolute is down south too, Alabama or GA, cant remember. I know when I bought a spare BHW ecu, I had to have an immo delete done or it wouldnt run, just crank. I would assume there is something like that on the jeep, but if you're only running the gauges, you may not care. It might send a kill signal to the cluster or battery/alternator though, not sure. A jeep forum might be helpful? I know EVGuy on here has done a handful of swaps, he might be of some help. Used to sell/make adapters too on his website.

I found it quite helpful to go onto the VW site at erwin.vw.com and pay for a 60 minute or 24 hour subscription. You get access to all of the factory wiring diagrams, service manuals, etc, downloadable in pdf form, and you can then access and print them out. I did that for my swap and just spent time staring at them to figure out what was needed and what could go. I'm still pruning slightly to clean it up and get all the lights to go away. There are a few videos online to learn how to read the vw wiring diagrams too, once you get the definitions it's pretty straight forward. Sounds like a fun swap!
 

nammac

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Location
Milledgeville Ga.
TDI
2005 1.9
I spoke with the Malone people in Ga. today. (Dallas Ga.) They told me to send it to them. Also I am waiting to hear back from TD conversions on the adapters. I spent most of the day removing almost the entire harness out of the Jetta. When I did a 5.3 vortex conversion to my jeep about 4 years ago I used Novak. I sent them the ECU and wiring harness (GM) and they returned it trimmed down with labels and the ECU flashed. It was a expensive conversion but works good. I understand there are places I could send this VW harness and they will trim it down. Maybe I will wait until I can crank the engine and begin cutting wires until it stops running and cranking, One wire at the time. the time that is.I now have 2 2004 sport jeeps and they are both red.
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Gotcha. Hasenwork (werk?) Does harness conversions up in BC, I think you could talk to him about what you need. I'm not sure if there are any other good places in the states. I talked with them for my conversion and just wasnt getting anywhere, so I dug in and did it myself. It's not too bad once you get the hang of the diagrams. I was able to swap the cluster wires around so my tdi works right with the signals from a gas, v6, auto van. I'd be happy to chat with you or email back and forth if you had any specific questions on wiring. I'm not a master guru, but I feel like I know enough. The van runs at least, just working on the last few lights and things to have a calm dash when I drive.
 

nammac

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Location
Milledgeville Ga.
TDI
2005 1.9
Thanks, I will probably take you up on the offer and using email. I need to get my adapter plates and the ECU re-programmed before proceeding with the wiring at this point. I am waiting on TDI conversion to return my call so I will be 100% sure before placing the order. I am also looking at Malone Tuning to take care of the immobilizer and whatever else I don't need.
 

nammac

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Location
Milledgeville Ga.
TDI
2005 1.9
You can actually start it without removing the immobilizer, but it will only run for about 15 seconds before the ECM will shut it down without the immobilizer, so not really enough time to do anything useful.

Removing the immobilizer can be done for about $200 by most of the tuners, or; if you are electrically and computer inclined, you can buy the tool and do it yourself. (this is what I did), but the finer details of removing the EGR controls, and remapping the throttle response is still something I am learning.

I decided to do it myself for the same reason I am making my own adaptor plate instead of buying one; I enjoy the learning and figuring things out. So if you just want results, I suggest paying someone to do it for you. Less time that is for sure.

if you just want the immobilizer removed for testing purposes, and you are ever down near central FL, I would be happy to remove it for you for free.
( I see you are in GA)

Edit:
If you did transplant the Jetta gauges into the jeep, you could cut out the transponder chip, and glue it to the transponder coil, and not have to remove the immobilizer at all.
I need to send you a couple of pictures so you can identify a couple of motor items. I had the computer done and have attempted to crank the engine. Starter is turning the engine but not running. My email is red04@windstream.net
 

nammac

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Location
Milledgeville Ga.
TDI
2005 1.9
Did a happy dance this afternoon after 2 days trying to get it to run on my test stand. Finally had to ground the ECU for it to run. I found this out by accident when the TCU touched against the block and I saw sparks. Is this normal that it is requiring a ground or do I not have something grounded which should be?
 

CasaEd

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2017
Location
Portugal
TDI
VW Passat TDi B4, VW Passat TDi B4 GL, VW Passat B3 PD AWX Conversion
Pins 4 & 5 in the large plug are the ground wires for the ECU, make sure they have a good clean connection to the body and the battery connection to the body is also good.
 

nammac

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Location
Milledgeville Ga.
TDI
2005 1.9
Thanks, will check those 2 wires tomorrow. I guess that is why I am having to ground the body of the ECU. I have the entire wiring harness from dash to headlights on the floor connected to the engine , headlights and gauges and more.. It wouldn't fire up so I kept connecting "stuff" Today I drove a couple hundred miles getting parts for the jeep. Didn't realize it had so much stuff damaged from the fire under the dash. I am rewiring the jeep from dash to front bumper. It will be the 1st of June before my adapter plates will be shipped from Canada.
 

evguy1

Vendor
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Location
Erington, BC, Canada
TDI
2000 Jeep Cherokee TDI, 2008 Jeep JKU TDI
05 must be a BEW engine? I put a couple of those in Jeeps and love them. Here is my JKU swap. https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?threads/2008-jeep-jku-tdi-swap.475261/
I sold TD Conversions last year (got too big for a retirment hobby) and the new guys are really steping up the product offerings. I don't know what all the ECU runs on the older TJ but it runs things like ABS brakes and air bags if you have them. Just install the temp and oil pressure sensors from the Jeep engine into the TDI and the ECU will be able to send those to the dash. The tricky part is always the tach. Some Jeeps also require some sort of cam sensor signal. This can very from model to model. On my XJ it needed a constant signal but did not have to sync with the crank sgnal and I just used a Digital Dakota tach box running from the crank sensor, on my older ZJ swap it just needed to be a singel pulse when the engine fired up which I did with a simple relay. There is also LOTS of help on the TDI truck swap facebook page and lots of Jeeps over there. https://www.facebook.com/groups/291980407818664/# Mark Malone is VERY good with swap tunes. You will want to keep the MAP and O2 sensors but the rest can go along with the intake flap and EGR cooler. I changed to a PD150 intake from Germany just to make a cleaner looking install. You are always welcome to email me questions as I dont spend as much time on forums as I used to. randy@tdconversions.com
 
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