2004 Passat Random Stall and No Start

toolmangary

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Location
USA
TDI
1999.5 TDI 2004 Jetta 2004 Passat
I have this 2004 Passat here that quit running on my wife in the middle of a busy intersection at rush hour :mad:. Well we have it towed home and when it gets here I scan it with my Snap On Modis and didn't have any codes.
I get the battery charged up and try to start it and it starts, after about 5 minutes of idling it starts to run a little funny for about 30 second then stalls out and will not re-start. The wife said that just before it stalled on her that it began to run a little rough also.
I let it sit for a couple hours and it will start again, it will run for a short period then stall and not start.
I've done some searching through some of the threads here and I'm wondering if it could be the 219 relay (ECM), or possibly the fuel pump relay?
It's not gelling up, I have it in a heated shop.
It's not the cam or crank sensor, my scanner doesn't update the data stream on these vehicles very fast, I looked at RPM while cranking and didn't see any so I thought that was the problem, but the problem was the scanner not updating the data fast enough.
I'm thinking it is some type of electrical problem.
Anybody have any suggestions?
I can't let my wife or daughter drive this till I know it's 100% fixed.
 

owr084

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Location
Northern Virginia (NoVA)
TDI
Passat GLS, 2005, Stonehenge Gray
When my crank sensor failed, it did not set any codes. If the wires on the crank sensor fray or break, it can cause intermittent problems that will drive yoiu up a wall trying to find (speaking from experience).
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
CKP sensor is a possibility.... sometimes it will set a DTC, sometimes not, sometimes the TCM will flag a DTC (no RPM input). It is very likely your MODIS won't find it, as they are often using the generic (useless) OBD2 side of the ECU.

If the 219 ECU power relay was at fault, various other modules will have DTCs stored for no communication with Engine (again, your MODIS may not allow you access to those other modules, so you'd never know).

I have never seen a fuel pump relay die on a BHW car. I have never seen a lift pump die on a BHW. I have replaced a handful of CKP sensors, but typically they manifest themselves as a "hiccup" or "stutter" while driving, not a stall w/ no restart.
 

johnboy00

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2000
Location
Bridgewater,Ma.,USA
TDI
2005 Passat Wagon, 2004 Jetta, 2003 Jetta wagon
Something very similar happened to me. It was the fuel pump Relay. This will not set a code. Its a 373 relay shown in the first picture here (almost dead center in the picture):
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=245377


As a quick check, yo can swap it with the 373 relay used for the cooling fan (upper left in first pic). That one, IIRC, only gets turned on during an overtemp condition.
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
You can pull the 219, remove the black over and check the contacts. I bought a Passat for parts recently which had been sitting for a few months. It would randomly start and also shut off. Cleaned the contacts and have had no issues since
 

toolmangary

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Location
USA
TDI
1999.5 TDI 2004 Jetta 2004 Passat
Well, I put a 219 relay in it, and it went 3 day without a hiccup, I was about to update this thread and call it fixed, then I get the call from my daughter that she is at school and it quit on her at school. So I have to hook up my trailer and go pick her and the up.

So far I have replaced the CMP, CKP and the 219 relay. The one clue is they say it'll start to run bad for less than a minute then quit.

What should I check next on this?
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
It sounds like you need to get this scanned with VCDS to find out what is going on.

Please do update this thread. I'd like to add it to the no start thread since I don't have anything specific to the Passat.
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
The running bad before it stops sounds like a similar problem I had with my daily driver. Replaced everything including wiring harness. Turned out to be my tandem pump. I rebuilt mine with a kit I got off eBay in England
 

toolmangary

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Location
USA
TDI
1999.5 TDI 2004 Jetta 2004 Passat
The running bad before it stops sounds like a similar problem I had with my daily driver. Replaced everything including wiring harness. Turned out to be my tandem pump. I rebuilt mine with a kit I got off eBay in England
So what was involved with rebuilding the tandem pump?
My Passat is leaking oil from the vacuum nipple, I was looking at buying one from ID parts but if I can rebuild it I'll do that.
 

afarfalla

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Location
sugar land tx
TDI
05 Passat sedan and 05 wagen
So what was involved with rebuilding the tandem pump?
My Passat is leaking oil from the vacuum nipple, I was looking at buying one from ID parts but if I can rebuild it I'll do that.

google Meat & Dora they have the kits for you tandem pump
 

owr084

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Location
Northern Virginia (NoVA)
TDI
Passat GLS, 2005, Stonehenge Gray
If you pull the tandem pump. replace the coolant flange, gasket and sensor. Do it for the same reason you replace the water pump when you do a TB job - because it is a pain to do it any other time ;)
 

toolmangary

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Location
USA
TDI
1999.5 TDI 2004 Jetta 2004 Passat
After i read vwztips post about the tandem pump was his problem I though maybe that the problem I'm having because it ran funny for the minute before
it stalls out, if it sucked some air that sounds like it could be a possibility.

After the first stall out, I had my scanner on it and I was watching for a tach signal, I was cranking for 30-45 seconds then it started and run till yesterday.

Whats the chance the problem could be the tandem pump?
I did notice a fuel leak from that area.
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
You may want to check that your in tank lift pump is working before replacing/rebuilding the TP
 

Brian's96TDIPASSAT

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2000
Location
Connecticut, USA
TDI
15 Golf TDI SEL 14 Passat SEL, bought back by VW 11 Golf TDI, bought back by VW 05 Passat TDI 96 Passat TDI, sold
CKP sensor is a possibility.... sometimes it will set a DTC, sometimes not, sometimes the TCM will flag a DTC (no RPM input). It is very likely your MODIS won't find it, as they are often using the generic (useless) OBD2 side of the ECU.
If the 219 ECU power relay was at fault, various other modules will have DTCs stored for no communication with Engine (again, your MODIS may not allow you access to those other modules, so you'd never know).
I have never seen a fuel pump relay die on a BHW car. I have never seen a lift pump die on a BHW. I have replaced a handful of CKP sensors, but typically they manifest themselves as a "hiccup" or "stutter" while driving, not a stall w/ no restart.
Daughters 05 would hickup, stall at times and skip randomly, never set a code. Traced it to the injector harness.
 

toolmangary

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Location
USA
TDI
1999.5 TDI 2004 Jetta 2004 Passat
ok, so here is where I'm at now.
After it quit running about 10 days ago I thought since the last 30 seconds of running it would start to flutter, then die the problem could be related to the tandem pump, maybe sucking air?? (it was leaking fuel and leaking oil from the vacuum nipple anyway) so I replaced the TP.

Now I still can't get it to start at all.
I have a tool, it's a fuel cap that will let me put a few PSI of air pressure in the fuel tank, I use it on other diesels to help bleed the air out when I have the fuel system opened up.
So with some air pressure on the fuel tank it should have fuel to the engine.

What PID's should I be looking at on the scanner to diagnose this?
Any ideas?

It does have a new cam sensor and crank sensor.
 

owr084

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Location
Northern Virginia (NoVA)
TDI
Passat GLS, 2005, Stonehenge Gray
Is the starter turning, but the engine won't catch? Are you getting rpms while cranking? If not, the crank sensor may not be fully/ firmly seated on a clean surface. Check it and the connection.
 
Last edited:

kevintoups

New member
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Location
Aurora, CO
TDI
2005
Same issues - 05 TDI

Starts, no issues. Throws no codes/cel on dash.

But will die after warming. A little bit of sputter if you slow down or left off gas - as a certain complete stop of the engine if under 30 mph.

Cannot restart once hot/warm. Will crank and crank.

20 minutes of cooling off - starts first try. So Frustrating!

Is it:
Tandem Pump
Crank Position Sensor
Relay over heating...


How can I check these without VACOM nor the $$ to replace all the parts one a t a time?
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
Toolmmangary, are you saying it will not start after replacing the TP? if so, you probably have not cranked long enough. It takes a while to get primed again after replacing the TP.

Did you ever check your lift pump is actually working?
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
kevintoups, 2 no cost things to check.

1. As suggested earlier in this thread, remove the 219 relay and the black cover from the relay, then check the contacts for corrosion
2. Follow the CPS wire to the firewall where IIRC it is a quick connect gray plug. While the engine is running, wiggle it. If the engine dies, you have found the problem.
 
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