2004 Golf BEW will not start without ether, dies after 5 mins

Bew_Hiss

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2025
Location
Milton, WI
TDI
2004 VW Golf TDI BEW
Hi all, I have 260,000 miles on my 1.9 TDI BEW bought it about 3 years ago (220,000 miles). When I first bought the car it ran great. We have had several problems along the way but here is our latest dilemma. About a year ago in the summer, the car would experience issues in the morning after sitting all night. The car cranks, fires right off then dies immediately, then you have to crank it for several cycles with smoke pouring out the back before it starts and runs, then it develops a misfire at idle. After that it will restart great for the rest of the day. We ended up replacing all 4 injectors with rebuilt ones with new seals. This seemed to fix the long cranking times (for about 6 months) and the smoke but did not fix the misfire. This misfire began in the summer and continued into winter, it is not present on start up but seems to develop after the engine is warm and goes away as the rpms rise. At cruising speeds and driving around it is un-noticeable but at idle it shakes the whole car. Now the long crank has come back and the misfire is still there. After about 6 months of long cranks, a cough, and then a weak sounding start (then drives OK enough to drive the car), now the car will crank but not start anymore without a shot of starting fluid in which case the car will start, run great on all 4 cylinders and over time progressively misfire worse and worse at idle until after a few minutes the car stalls. After the car dies it will crank fast and will not start again even with starter fluid until it sits overnight. Same thing tomorrow, car runs for about 5 mins every time. I am new to VCDS and have tried to use it to troubleshoot but it is proving difficult. An Engine 01 scan only shows a misfire on Cylinder 2, no other codes. I can see that there is RPMs on the TAC and in VCDS around 240 rpm at starting cranking speed after the car has died it will crank at 340 RPMs. After the car is first started Injector quantity deviation is stable within +- 1.00 , right before it stalls values are +-2.89. While cranking, injector values are 0.00. We originally thought the lift pump could have an issue after testing the flow from the fuel supply line and only getting 1.5 l/m vs the specified 3 l/m. we now get 2 l/m with the new lift pump. Not sure if the specified value is exact or if there could be something wrong with the new pump (doubt it) or if there could be a leak in the hard line running from the pump to the filter. We don't see or smell any fuel there. I would think this is still plenty of flow to supply the Tandem pump. I removed the glow plugs and there is no fuel being injected. I do not have clear fuel lines to tell if there is air in the system and if I understand correctly that both the lift pump and the tandem pump "Suck", then there would be no obvious leaks if there was a bad hose. Although the misfire has been apparent it seemed that the car had run so well when it first starts in the morning and even while driving that compression should be good. I had a look at the camshaft with the injectors still in and could not identify any obvious signs of wear but I have little experience when it comes to how bad is bad in that case. As I said the car seemed to run great the majority of the time until now and even if there was low compression, bad injectors, or worn cam I would still think the car would spit fuel and fire on at least one cylinder and start. Has anyone heard of a worn cam causing a no start condition? My next step is to replace the Crankshaft sensor as I have read many many threads on the various forums here (Thanks for all the great info everyone!!) and a handful of people state that there CRPS was faulty and not throwing any codes. I only have a code for misfire on Cylinder 2 and EGR Insufficient Flow because the pipe from the EGR cooler into the intake I have removed and installed block-off plates. Straight piped exhaust, no tune.

If anyone knows of anyway to log fuel pressure in VCDS on this engine it may help me determine if I am loosing fuel pressure for some reason. I can only seem to find "Charge pressure" as a %, not sure what that is. I don't seem to have alot of the options to monitor things like fuel rail pressure in VCDS, or the ability to test each injector. I have also heard of a TSB for the crank sensors on BEWs but someone said it only applied if you had a flash for a glow plug recall or something so not sure if that would apply to me or not so leaving it alone. If anyone has any input as too what I could check next or what the problem could be I would absolutely appreciate it as I have been unable to find anyone with a problem quite like this. I can add a full scan but I don't know how useful it would be.

This car has new:
Timing Belt etc (240,000)
Brake Booster (had a code for this)
Glow plug harness
Battery
Cam Sensor (had a code for this)
MAF sensor (had a code for this)
Coolant sensor (had a code for this)
More recently...
Fuel Filter and Lift Pump (last week-no code on this)
Tandem Pump(Bosch)- 15,000 miles ago (no code for this, guessed it might help when nothing else was, did this before the injectors)
Injectors-(rebuilt) - new Seals/bolts- 15,000 miles ago (this was the hail mary when still having the long crank weak start after we replaced the tandem pump, started without the long crank for about 6 months, we thought we had it fixed finally but no. Back to long crank weak start, and now....start only with ether and run a few minutes and stall.)
 
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Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
04’s had some glow plug issues, what plugs do you have in it and what is your ecu flashed for?

There was also a wiring issue. I’ve looked around a bit but I can’t find it maybe someone else can chime in and link to the diy.
 

Bew_Hiss

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2025
Location
Milton, WI
TDI
2004 VW Golf TDI BEW
Thanks for the interest!
These glow plugs have never been replaced, I believe they are OEM. Sorry if it was confusing, this car has never been flashed or tuned. No codes for glow plugs or harness. The glow plug wiring harness was replaced about a year ago by a mechanic. We are keeping the car inside our shed where we can keep it warm when we try to start it. Would faulty glow plugs or wiring be a reason to not inject fuel? The car will start with starting fluid and run great at first until it misfires and dies so if glow plugs were bad I would think that the startup would sound much rougher and it would be no reason to die.
I have cleaned all the grounds in the engine bay in case there was a bad ground. No improvement.
This issue with stalling seems to occur after a consistent time interval and without codes which leads me to believe it is a mechanical issue, but I will not discount that there are electrical issues that do not throw codes in these cars:(. That being said it is hard for me to stomach paying for new parts without a code or a logical reason, with an exception of the crank sensor, which I have read can fail without throwing codes, although I do get a code when I disconnect it.

Thank you again, any suggestions are appreciated.
 
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Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
The glow plugs will only cause hard starting they won’t cause it to stall.

A crank sensor can get flakey without throwing a code.
 

Bew_Hiss

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2025
Location
Milton, WI
TDI
2004 VW Golf TDI BEW
The new sensor should be in next week and I will update when I have results. Thanks to all for your thoughts.
 
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Bew_Hiss

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2025
Location
Milton, WI
TDI
2004 VW Golf TDI BEW
Went and bought some clear hose for fuel line to check if air is getting in the system. Replaced the lines, returning fuel and supplying fuel from the filter to the hard lines, with clear hose. car started without starter fluid after a long crank, slowly came to life. The car ran perfectly with very little (if any) air in the lines. Then just as i thought i had fixed the problem i noticed that there was an increasingly amount of tiny bubbles building up. The car began to misfire and there began to be quiet large airbubbles coming from the lift pump side and continuing through to the return line. Sure enough the car died after a little longer than 5 mins this time. Fuel lines almost filled with more air than fuel at this point. tried to start the car again and it lots of air bubbles in supply line from filter, cranked fast with no signs of starting. I have just replaced the lift pump so i would doubt that that could be the problem although i can only produce ~2 liters per minute jumpering a battery to the lift pump.

Has anyone seen the hard plastic fuel lines or any fuel lines fail in such a way that air progressively enters the system? Also not sure how to post a picture but i do have pictures of air in the line as it progresses.
 

Lightflyer1

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Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Pictures need to be hosted somewhere else or the server on this site and then the link to them put in your post. There are instructions here posted multiple times if you search.
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
The most likely place for air to enter is the Mickey Mouse ears on top of the fuel filter. Did you replace those O rings? Did you nick them as you inserted the T back into the filter?
 

Bew_Hiss

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2025
Location
Milton, WI
TDI
2004 VW Golf TDI BEW
That's a great thought. I know we replaced the o-rings and fuel filter when we installed the lift pump just last week. I don't think we damaged them although it was challenging to get the Mickey Mouse ears back in place. I can try visually inspecting the o-rings, grease them up and put them back in, and/or get new o rings. I did see the thread on "bypassing the return line T fitting" which I can try something from in there if I still seem to be getting air in the system from that area. I thought I could hear some hissing but it was hard to pinpoint because of the belt noise. What I just now tried was putting a length of clear hose directly from the lift pump into the supply side of the fuel filter so I could see if air was coming from the lift pump. I still needed ether to start it up and all the clear lines were full with fuel initially but then as it ran I could see air bubbles coming from the filter back into the supply line, preventing fuel from being supplied from the lift pump. It ran for about 5 min accumulating air but then it was going to die so I just shut it off. I had air in the shorter lines from the fuel filter to the rail and the return from the tandem pump, but it does seem that the air is originating at the filter connections. If that is the case, the problem existed both with my old filter and the one that I just put in, or perhaps the T connection itself, so I am headed to take a further look at the "bypassing the return line T fitting" thread.
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
It’s possible that Plastic T could be cracked. The older these cars get the more brittle the plastic becomes. I broke my T when I changed my filter on New Year’s Day. Fortunately I had a spare. Idparts has new ones if I recall.

Stop using ether before you damage your engine.
 

Bew_Hiss

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2025
Location
Milton, WI
TDI
2004 VW Golf TDI BEW
Thank you, yes I know it's bad to keep using ether. I decided to order the T from the Kerma people and it took awhile for USPS to get it here. The good news is that I put it in last night and now no bubbles coming from the area of the T, and the car will start right up even after sitting for a day, and it runs with no sign it is going to die. I do still have a stream of small bubbles from the Tandem pump side that accumulate into a bigger bubble in the hose from the rail back to the filter, so will try replacing the short fuel line over by the tandem pump and see if all the bubbles clear up. I also have my crankshaft position sensor now, but going to wait on that until we get the fuel line problem cleared up to do anything with that.
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
The leak could also be from the tandem pump seal, but I would sooner think it's from a fuel line as those lines are getting older.
 

JB05

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Location
Il.USA
TDI
Golf,2005,anthracite blue
I had some difficulty replacing the short outlet hose from the tandem pump to the FTS. The hose clamps had no ears to grab onto.
 

Jetta2005TDI

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Location
chicago
TDI
Jetta 2005 TDI (old version)
replace camshaft sensor, it can be bad and will not turn on check engine light. Also try to adjust timing using vcds to 0. Also worn out starter can give you problems. Good starter should be able to crank BEW engine at 500rpm. Also careful how you instatll camshaft sensor it has small plastic nipple that needs to go into small hole if you miss the hole the air gap will be too big and will not start right.
 
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coalminer16

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Location
Central Wisconsin
TDI
Golf 2004
Please stop using ether to start unless you unplugged the glow plugs. If the glow plugs were working you likely would bend a rod as the hot glow plug will ignite the ether no mater the piston position. Anything with glow plugs or intake heaters needs to be disabled before ever trying starting fluid/ether.

That said- likely your glow plugs are bad which. You need to pull the harness off and test either for resistance or continuity. The fact it is smoking when trying to start means it is getting fuel to the engine but not enough heat. Heat can come from warm engine and the compression of the pistons. Loose engine = less compression which also makes it hard to start. Check engine blow by.

Fuel issue - the bew has an in tank pump. You are not likely to get air into your fuel system via many spots mentioned- the system should be under pressure. If you are getting air from those spots your in tank pump is dead, weak or dying. I had one recently work at startup where it pumped fuel and was verified visually but then the car would stumble accelerating past 50% throttle. Took a year and many components to figure out the pump was weak. Replaced and good to good.

So to summerize- look at the actual glow plugs as well as confirm there is power going to them (they are not 12 volt so don't jumper to battery) and confirm in tank fuel pump when cycling the key is pumping fuel. You still may want to just replace the intake pump even if fuel does come out as it may be like mine.
 

agent_jwa

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2024
Location
WI
TDI
02 Golf
My friend gave me an injection pump that he thought had a worn out vane pump (the part of the pump that supplies fuel to the high pressure side). he said it just sucked to start after sitting but after that it worked fine. I ended up needing it for another car and swapped it on. It definitely sucked to start, lots of cranking, smoked like crazy, missing, but then bam it was nice and smooth. For the rest of the day it worked fine, next morning repeat the starting fit. I ended up pulling that pump and replacing it, I wanted to tear down the pump and fix the vane pump.
What I found was broken plunger springs, no other damage though. So it might be that.
 
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