2003 Jetta Poor MPG (26.1)

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2003 Golf GLS ([2] 2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
the thing is though, my local shop of choice JRP in plainfield set the IQ perfectly to stock I even saved the graph they printed up to show the IP timing and fuel temp. So its not the IQ, i am planning to do a diesel purge as m friend has the set to do it, but a dirty fuel system still wouldn't account for a 15+mpg loss would it?
You've got either one BIG issue or several SMALL issues combining for your problem.

Without numbers or logs we're blind here. Offering up that something is set "perfectly" isn't enough.

What RPMs are you turning in 5th gear at 60 mph?

Need to really get down to ruling stuff OUT here. Please verify the operation of your brakes.
 

fruitcakesa

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Location
Vermont
TDI
04 jetta 5 spd wagon
Just for comparison, my 02 wagon with 01M trans, consistently gets 32-35 mpgs when it is used for local driving only, year round.
When I take it out for longer drives, FE jumps to 38-40 mpg.
What are your consistent driving habits?
Sticky brakes are b*tch for good FE.
Ask me how I know.
Goog luck.
 
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Raweaver_410

Active member
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
Location
Cordova, MD
TDI
Mk4 Silver Golf TDI 5spd, Mk4 Red 2.0 Jetta Auto, Mk2 Blue Diesel Jetta 5spd, Mk1 Sandy Diesel Jetta 5spd
So let's start with a basic tip if your car is smoking like a 60's bar that means what. You don't have enough air in the chamber at combustion OR your fuel is turned up too high. So again what have you touched or changed since you started? I would start there first.
 

Jpontiac68

Veteran Member
Joined
May 13, 2015
Location
Naperville, IL
TDI
2003 Jetta GL TDI, 5 speed manual galactic blue w/ 101k miles
I think I have come to a conclusion as to why the mpg is so awful, I had my timing belt done about 9 months ago and as I don't drive the car a whole lot, I hadn't noticed, but when I started it up, it took forever to start up. I have been led to believe that the timing has been thrown off. What do you guys have to say? Anyways I'm going to have to talk with the shop who did my belt to see what they did.
 

Dakloog

Active member
Joined
May 20, 2015
Location
Cedar Lake, IN
TDI
2003 Jetta GL TDI
A tune couldn't effect a TDI's mpg this much, correct? Could even a stage one tune require a different timing or IP setting in order to keep "Normal" MPG? Say, what if someone went to a shop for such a critical replacement as a timing belt but had even a stage 3 or 4 tune and failed to say such and so the shop set the timing to "stock" when it in fact should have been set differently? Just curious as the OP never mentioned, and I'd like to know...
 

Dakloog

Active member
Joined
May 20, 2015
Location
Cedar Lake, IN
TDI
2003 Jetta GL TDI
I understand, but just to clarify, there is no instance in which a tune would require a retiming of the engine? Just curious... Also, I assume my question could stand for the IP setting as well? Would that need to be adjusted post tune in order to maintain healthy MPG's? Or would none of this be affected at all? Thanks
 

Jpontiac68

Veteran Member
Joined
May 13, 2015
Location
Naperville, IL
TDI
2003 Jetta GL TDI, 5 speed manual galactic blue w/ 101k miles
I did just call them as of yesterday, to learn that they do use the cam locking tools (as they do lots of TBs) but I am to believe that the IP was off before they did the timing belt. Could this cause the offset in mechanical timing and if so would a whole mechanical retiming be necessary?
 

AnotherPerson

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2015
Location
New Orleans
TDI
1999 Beetle
I was getting about 23MPG in my beetle. When we first got it the front passenger brake was hanging. (Believe the replacement is now too). But it still had brake drag. We ended up replacing pads and rotors in the back and the drivers rear caliper and its much better. Now im getting 31-32mpg. Which i know is still bad but it is something to consider.

If there was an idiot prior to you that tried to press in the rear calipers vs screwing them in that could mess up a caliper. I believe this is what happened right before I got mine as it had new pads installed shortly before and always had drag.

On another note, has the intake been cleaned and EGR removed? That was also hurting my car.
 

Jpontiac68

Veteran Member
Joined
May 13, 2015
Location
Naperville, IL
TDI
2003 Jetta GL TDI, 5 speed manual galactic blue w/ 101k miles
My intake and EGR were cleaned albeit a while ago, however I still am lead to believe it could be the timing as it has sounded very different ever since the TB was done however if it seems they have fixed the timing problem I will then be looking to clean the EGR and intake once again. And i replaced my rear brakes (not the calipers though) so I would hope it wouldn't be the brakes, in particular the brake calipers.
 

jokila

Vendor
Joined
Dec 3, 2004
Location
Houston, Texas
TDI
2003 Jetta GLS, Manual
I did just call them as of yesterday, to learn that they do use the cam locking tools (as they do lots of TBs) but I am to believe that the IP was off before they did the timing belt. Could this cause the offset in mechanical timing and if so would a whole mechanical retiming be necessary?
The mechanical or static timing of the IP is going to put it within a range so the ECU can take over and keep it in time. All they did was improve that. Did they use VCDS or equivalent to check the final timing to see if they had it correct?

That's a critical step to make sure the engine is in time/tune for best mpg/power. Did they even do this step?
 

Jpontiac68

Veteran Member
Joined
May 13, 2015
Location
Naperville, IL
TDI
2003 Jetta GL TDI, 5 speed manual galactic blue w/ 101k miles
I am not sure but going in today to have a nice long talk with them about the timing, if they threw it off a few degrees, and have them set everything to TDC and fix the mechanical aspect. The thing with the shop is the guy Jason who owns it does great work himself but his guys don't so I am going to have him take a look at the mechanical aspect of the injection pump.
 
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BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
I did just call them as of yesterday, to learn that they do use the cam locking tools (as they do lots of TBs) but I am to believe that the IP was off before they did the timing belt. Could this cause the offset in mechanical timing and if so would a whole mechanical retiming be necessary?
If they did it right it would make no difference where the pump was before. If they used any 'mark and prey' style method, it would duplicate the previous timing.
 

jprine

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Location
Chicago
TDI
03 GLS Golf TDI, 04 R32, 05 Passat Wagon TDI
Sorry you'd been having trouble with you car. Long post here - hope something helps ya.

BobnOH is right, with the correct TB special tools you can start with no belt at all (everything off timing) and it will all come together correctly timed. The IP pulley bolts are loosened at one point for a "correct" TB install to relief the stress and thats why it requires a VCDS to check and tweak the timing after its put back together.

Unless they have worked on this particular model engine before or you paid them really good I doubt they have ALH specific TB tools (IP locking pin and the cam locking tool are most important). Just the delay of the job waiting for tools in the mail would be a reason to try and skip them even if they were free. Most mechanics don't think you really need them - some gas engines use special tools also but you rarely actually need them. Getting them to fix it right or getting your money back is probably never going to happen sorry to say. If it was me I'd only be trying for the money back. For the same reason I don't ask for food to be remade at a restaurant, unless they really take pride in their work if they messed up the first time are they really going to do better the second time, especially pissed because your making them do yet more work...

If your still not sure if your brakes are dragging or not, go for a normal drive and try not to stop too much then pull it over. Go feel each wheel for heat, they should only be a little warm depending on how much stopping you did. Don't touch the rotor directly you might get burned pretty bad. Or if you have access to a IR temp gun use that. No correct temp lots of variables, but one side shouldn't be much hotter then the other.

As others mentioned fuel leaks at IP or return lines on the injectors - fuel filter and air filter although they would have to be pretty old for that mpg.

But if this (mpg drop) happened suddenly after your TB job that is your primary suspect. Without the special tools the cam timing could also be off even if the IP is set perfect in VCDS.. I'm not sure of anything you can read with the VCDS that will show the cam timing. This can be checked physically by removing the vac pump and using the transmission hole to set the crank in position and checking that the end of the cam is very close to where it should be.

Not in the business of fixing other peoples cars, but I am in the Chicago area and have all the special tools if you give up others. Hate to see a alh get destroyed. If you want to get in touch send me a PM.

Personally I don't trust anyone even the dealer so I do my own work -- I don't even let someone drive the car into a garage to put tires on, I bring them in my trunk and swap them at home. I've had too many bad experiences to trust anyone else (a tire installer damaged my transmission, and not in a big enough way for a insurance claim so i had to live with it), its worth my extra hassle to not have potential problems. Its worth the walk to park in the back of the lot etc. People don't give a SH*T about their brand new car, so putting a small dent in your old tdi with their door doesn't even mean anything to them. -- Same reason mechanics dont fix things right, most people dont care and want cheap.

IMO if you need to pay for work, its worth paying more (or going out of your way to the right person) to not have potential problems. I would only ever recommend someone on the guru list to anyone I know, at least for the engine stuff on a TDI. I mean how many mechanics even use a torque wrench, next to none is the answer if you didn't know - its simple economics - time is money and being anal takes more time.

Sorry if I am coming off preachy just my opinions take it or leave it.

Edit- Maybe all your over-fueling could have loaded/clogged the cat up too much? how is performance?
 
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