2002 vw tdi wont cold start

Rfanslau

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2021
Location
New jersey
TDI
Jetta
Hello I been reading this and my problem is it will start with starting fluid and run forever but shut it down for a few hours and won't start it's 50 degrees and I am guessing the glow plugs are good oh and lots of smoke. I believe the timming is correct checked it with the induction pump pin, cam shaft alignment tool, And the crank shaft markings on the flywheel. Can I be loosing its prime when sitting, but that don't answer for the smoke now
Bob
 

csstevej

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
What’s the smoke smell like?
Are you sure that the IP pin is in the correct hole and not the sucker hole?
Where are the bolts in relationship to the slots in the IP gear….. far aft , middle , far forward in the slot?
Is this a new car to you?
Do you know when and who did the last timing belt job?
On the clear tubing going from the fuel filter to the IP…..is there a large bubble of air?
 

Rfanslau

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2021
Location
New jersey
TDI
Jetta
Blueish smoke from behind the engine And out the exhaust,
One very short shot of starting fluid and she fires up in just one rotation of the engine.
The ip the 3 bolts are in the middle of the pully with the pin inserted
We had no problem before the timing belt was changed
After the engine is running it will run smoothly all day stop for 2 -3 hours and you will need the starting fluid again
The cam shaft alignment tool was used
And the crank shaft alignment point on the flywheel is there also
I dontvhave a clear fuel line so I can not see if there are any air bubbles
But what has me going is this problem did not exist before the timing belt change. The reason for the timing belt change was a leaking water pump
Thanks for your help bob
 

Rfanslau

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Joined
Nov 9, 2021
Location
New jersey
TDI
Jetta
I drove the car for 50 miles yesterday after starting with starting fluid and its 50 to 60 degrees here
 

Rfanslau

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Nov 9, 2021
Location
New jersey
TDI
Jetta
I do know the fuel lines were removed from the fuel filter to allow room to do the water pump job and sat for like 2 days before being put back on
 

Rfanslau

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Joined
Nov 9, 2021
Location
New jersey
TDI
Jetta
Could the ip pump have so kind of vapor lock enough to stop a cold start but run like a champ after starting
 

ghohouston

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Joined
Apr 2, 2013
Location
Lewisville, Texas
TDI
2001 Jetta Sedan TDI 5 Speed
Do you have a large air bubble in the clear fuel line after sitting? What about while the car is running? My initial guess is timing is too retarded.
 

Rfanslau

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Joined
Nov 9, 2021
Location
New jersey
TDI
Jetta
Would the timming retarded cause a lot of blue smoke and a hard start.
But tiny shot of starting fluid and one turn of the engine And it fires right up and but then comes the smoke
 

csstevej

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
It would help with future troubleshooting.

Retarded timing in my experience would be hard starting but with white smoke.
I suspect that the blue smoke may be coming from your valve stem seals leaking into the cylinders after the engine sits awhile ( had a similar issue with my 01 golf , big plume of smoke on first start ).

How many miles are on your car?

Do you have Vcds to check what the timing is set at? You still could have a retarded timing and it wouldn’t take much to bring it up.
 

Rfanslau

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Joined
Nov 9, 2021
Location
New jersey
TDI
Jetta
I have a machinic with the soft wear for the timming. But the kick in the pants is that none of this was happening last week before we did the water pump and timming belt. Off hand do you know if there is a fuel pump under the rear seat. I feel no humming when cycling the ignition key. That could explain the cold start 200 rpm cranking speed vrs. Starting fluid 1,000 rpm speed difference and then the ip pump taking over for the bad fuel pump under the rear seat. What do you think
Thanks bob
 

Rfanslau

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Joined
Nov 9, 2021
Location
New jersey
TDI
Jetta
The smoking problem is another question ti figure out yet.
Oh it's a 2002 vw jetta 1.9l diesel with a automatic transmission plus it's got 300,000 miles
 

P2B

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Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Location
Toronto & Muskoka, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta, 2003 Jetta, 2003 Jetta Wagon
I have a machinic with the soft wear for the timming. But the kick in the pants is that none of this was happening last week before we did the water pump and timming belt.
Cause and effect. Assume timing is wrong until he shows you it's not - the software displays a graph which anyone can interpret.

There is no lift pump in the tank unless one was retrofitted. 200 rpm cranking speed is a bit low - your battery or starter might be tired which would exacerbate the affect of retarded timing.

Be aware that use of starting fluid can result in engine damage.
 

Rfanslau

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Nov 9, 2021
Location
New jersey
TDI
Jetta
I can't understand why cranking speed what is good both a new starter and battery won't start the engine. But that baby shot of starting fluid fires that engine up in less than 1 turn of the engine why dosent tge diesel fuel fire up. Let the engine run for a minute shut it off and she will fire right up. Let it sit for 2 hours now its a different story
 

Rob Mayercik

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Joined
Dec 19, 2001
Location
NJ, U.S.A.
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS, Baltic Green/Beige
But the kick in the pants is that none of this was happening last week before we did the water pump and timming belt.
Agree with P2B - sounds like timing is probably off, and needs to be rechecked. The last work done to the car was on something that influences starting/drivability (timing belt).

As to starting speed, it might be worth cleaning/retightening the electrical connections to the starter - that fixed a no-crank condition for me recently, so it's not inconceivable that a dirty connection could reduce cranking speed too...
 

Rfanslau

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Joined
Nov 9, 2021
Location
New jersey
TDI
Jetta
The ip pump pin can it be missed place in a wrong tru hole or is there but only one way to fit it in. Because the timing gears were all set with the ip pin, cam shaft, tool and the crank shaft mark showing. And the ip pump gear is set in the middle before tighten the 3 bolts
 

Rob Mayercik

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Joined
Dec 19, 2001
Location
NJ, U.S.A.
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS, Baltic Green/Beige
The water pump is driven by the timing belt on an ALH like yours (and mine). To replace that you have to pull the timing belt apart, which can mess up perfectly good timing if not done correctly.

I don't have direct experience, but I have read of folks pinning the injection pump with the wrong hole. There's reportedly one very close to the correct one that often tricks the unsuspecting...
 

P2B

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Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Location
Toronto & Muskoka, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta, 2003 Jetta, 2003 Jetta Wagon
The ip pump pin can it be missed place in a wrong tru hole or is there but only one way to fit it in.
Yes, there is a "sucker hole".

As previously stated, problem started after timing belt change so you should not trust that timing is correct until verified with VCDS.
 

Rfanslau

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Nov 9, 2021
Location
New jersey
TDI
Jetta
Great will do and I will get back with the results. Does anyone have an idea how far off is this sucker hole and in what direction to turn the pully to find it
 

braddies

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Joined
Jul 26, 2021
Location
America
TDI
03 golf ALH
A faulty coolant temperature sensor would cause some issues, can you check with vcds or an obd scan tool to see what temp the sensor is telling the ECU the coolant is?
Coolant temp, fuel temp and intake air temp should all be about the same after sitting overnight. If one temp is wildly different than the others it can cause issues
The sucker hole is very close/right next to the actual hole
 

P2B

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Location
Toronto & Muskoka, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta, 2003 Jetta, 2003 Jetta Wagon
Great will do and I will get back with the results. Does anyone have an idea how far off is this sucker hole and in what direction to turn the pully to find it
Picture here:
 

AndyBees

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Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
The problem is strictly related to Timing.
The IP timing is either too advanced or it is retarded.
Blue or white smoke is unburnt fuel bellowing out after the engine fires-up (and it can smoke while cranking without starting)

The que is "it wasn't doing this until ........................ "

The Timing needs to be checked with VCDS when the engine is fully warmed up.

Starting fluid is going to damage your engine.
This problem is not a fuel filter issue.
Ten lift pumps in the fuel tank is not going to solve the problem (it doesn't need a fuel pump in the tank, it's ALH engine with a VE IP).
 

Rfanslau

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Joined
Nov 9, 2021
Location
New jersey
TDI
Jetta
I am going to a good mechanic this time with all the stuff and VCDS and show him this tread too. On Friday. I will let all yous know how I make out.
Thank for all the advice. Bob
 

csstevej

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
Out of curiosity…… where in NJ are you ?
 

Rfanslau

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2021
Location
New jersey
TDI
Jetta
Haven't got to the mechanic yet but the engine is starting on its oun no starting fluid. But when sitting over night it takes 3 good cycles to fire it up. Then the rest of the day it's fine. Plus at first in the morning lots of smoke still
Bob
 
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