2 stroke oil in your diesel = smiles?

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T

pvapollo

Veteran Member
Joined
May 4, 2012
Location
ca
TDI
1998 New Beetlesold, 98 Jetta AHU, 96 Dodge Cummins 5.9 TDI
I do it in my 1996 5.9 Dodge Diesel pickup. One time I dumped in a gallon of used motor oil. Only thing that happened is I didn't need to srop it off at AutoZone that month. My mech. advised against the used stuff but for the New Beetle I use a commercial diesel additive and that is it with my #2 good stuff. I got 46 mpg on my last tank driving up to 80 at times when safe and gave up on any low rpm theory stuff.
 

Scratcher

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Location
Grand Rapids MI
TDI
2011 SportWagen TDI
It's actually beneficial on pre 2007 Diesels that are not fitted with particulate filters. The only issue with adding extra lubricant to modern diesel fuel systems is that it is thought that it will prematurelly clog the particulate filter.

I add up to 1/2 gallon of mineral engine oil on every fillup on my old F250 6.9 IDI. Its good for the fuel injection pump,injectors and upper cyclinders. I also get a slight increase in power and better MPG.

I never add it to my 2011 TDI for the reason stated above plus I am still in warranty. Once Im out of warranty I may consider a couple of ounces per fillup.

Running 5% bio diesel is allowed under warranty and provides extra lubricity.
On my last service visit i asked to go into the shop and look at my fuel filter. The head mechanic in the shop told me that that out of all the TDI's he sees going through his shop mine had the best quality fuel he had seen and felt.

DO NOT EVER add used engine oil to diesel fuel. That is a death sentence system to any fuel injection system.
 

TDI smile

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Location
Edmonton, Alberta (b4 BC - LOWER MAINLAND = Chilli
TDI
2002 TDI (ALH) with 513,000 km. First Owner and very happy... No Problems, never left us stranded on the Highway. Average useage is about between under 4 ltr. and 5 ltr. Normal longdistance travel: 4.1/100
The ONLY thing I add is: Zmax
Once a year it's a welcome refreshment
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I did this for a long time at HermTDI's recommendation. Its major benefit is to lubricate and quiet the rotary pump. I think it's a good idea. He cautioned me to be sure to use ashless oil to make sure it doesn't harm the CAT (such as it is). I've moved on to using biodiesel or Stanadyne, but I did run it in my M-B for a while. Wouldn't in the new car.
 

JSWTDI09

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2009 JSW TDI (gone but not forgotten)
Two cycle oil is generally added to diesel fuel as a lubricity additive. It does add lubricity, but not as much as many other additives. As far as I know, there is no harm in adding some 2 cycle oil to a tank *IF* you are driving an older (non-CR) TDI. The issue with 2 cycle oils is that very few (if any) are "Ultra Low Sulfur" oils. Therefore, they could foul the DPF and perhaps other emissions equipment in newer TDIs. Shortening the life of your very expensive exhaust system is something you don't want to do

Basically, two cycle oil does add some lubricity, but there are many other lubricity additives that are better (and many are just as cheap). Just be very careful if you add it to a new (2009+) TDI.

Have Fun!

Don
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
The ONLY thing I add is: Zmax
Once a year it's a welcome refreshment
Pure Snakeoil.

http://www.lubereport.com/e_article000139666.cfm?x=a1ynqMH,a101R1PT

For any kind of fuel additive to even be effective, it has to be added to EVERY tank of fuel. All ZXAX does is makes your wallet lighter and from the report and lawsuit may even increase wear.

The best thing by far for fuel system lubricity for Diesel engines seems to be B2. See the test results on the forum the OP linked.

Using 2 stroke oil has no real data to support or reject it's usefulness in Diesel engines. I think I would like something more concrete than unsubstantiated observations.
 

Seatman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 23, 2010
Location
Scotland
TDI
2007 Seat Alhambra 2L tdi
Ok so I added a tiny amount earlier when putting in fuel and have noticed the engine is considerably quieter. No difference in responsiveness and to soon to know about mpg's.

I'll keep an eye on things though, try with and without a few times and see if what turns up.

Mine is the ALH so it's old enough anyway.
 

Niner

duplicate account, banned
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
You still have a catalytic converter on your tdi, that you are destroying with 2 stroke motor oil.
 

Scratcher

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Location
Grand Rapids MI
TDI
2011 SportWagen TDI
Using 2 stroke oil has no real data to support or reject it's usefulness in Diesel engines. I think I would like something more concrete than unsubstantiated observations.
Except perhaps this from the Spicer report
"Super Tech Outboard 2-cycle TC-W3 engine oil
Unconventional (Not ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 or newer systems)
HFRR 474, 162 micron improvement
200:1 ratio
16.64 oz/tank
$1.09/tank"

 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Not really a cat, it's simply a particulate trap. And ashless 2 cycle oil causes it no harm. I do recall that there was data around here a few years ago that showed 2-cycle oil is pretty effective as a lubricant, but I agree that biodiesel is better.
 

gotsoot

Veteran Member
Joined
May 28, 2012
Location
Piedmont S.C.
TDI
`04 passat tdi
Indigo you have hit the nail on the head.3rd.party testing did dome work for the cummins guys and found that 100% bio is the best.cannot remember what came in second.third place went to TCW#3 2 stroke oil.It was actually oil from Wally World.
 

Seatman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 23, 2010
Location
Scotland
TDI
2007 Seat Alhambra 2L tdi
You still have a catalytic converter on your tdi, that you are destroying with 2 stroke motor oil.

No, you're presuming I have a cat on my car, I destroyed that with a metal bar and a big hammer :p



Anyway fired the car up from cold and the engine is a lot quieter.
 

Seatman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 23, 2010
Location
Scotland
TDI
2007 Seat Alhambra 2L tdi
Yeh but my car's emissions aren't that important due to it's age. It's the newer ones that need have their cats and dpf's etc.
I also fine tune things though so as not to smoke like a tyre on fire. Even with my bigger nozzles i don't get loads of smoke if any.
A lot of the newer cars get really cheap road tax based on the emissions but not me, I pay full price.
 

Scratcher

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Location
Grand Rapids MI
TDI
2011 SportWagen TDI
Yeh but my car's emissions aren't that important due to it's age. It's the newer ones that need have their cats and dpf's etc.
I also fine tune things though so as not to smoke like a tyre on fire. Even with my bigger nozzles i don't get loads of smoke if any.
A lot of the newer cars get really cheap road tax based on the emissions but not me, I pay full price.
Yeah I paid through the nose too when I lived there and ran my Ford Escort 1.8D van.
 

Scratcher

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Location
Grand Rapids MI
TDI
2011 SportWagen TDI
I've given some thought to precombustion deposits from adding oil/2 stroke. My conclusion is that 2 stroke at least is designed as a precombustion lubricant since it is normally mixed with petrol/gasoline, If it was going to stick I think it would stick a carburettor before it would stick a high pressure diesel fuel injector.
 

Abacus

That helpful B4 guy
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Location
Relocated from Maine to Dewey, AZ
TDI
Only the B4V left
I did this for a long time at HermTDI's recommendation. Its major benefit is to lubricate and quiet the rotary pump. I think it's a good idea. He cautioned me to be sure to use ashless oil to make sure it doesn't harm the CAT (such as it is).
I have been doing this for many years, and hundreds of thousands of miles on this engine, also at Herm's recommendation.

I still have the original cat and the original injection pump, although I did reseal the QA seal at around 386K. Even with the original cat, my B4 moves very well down the road, as anyone who has driven it can attest.

Here are some pictures of when I took the head off it at 393K to replace a blown head gasket (due to a failed water pump) and of the IP at 386K. There was no wear lip at the top of the cylinder and you could still read the original writing on the pistons.

I'm a believer and add 14 oz of 2-cycle oil (Wal-Mart asheless TC-W3) and 7 oz of either Power Service gray or white bottle (depending on the time of year) at every fillup (I have a 21 oz bottle and mix if before fueling), which is usually 16-18 gallons. I do this will all the B4's we have and they run great.

Click on pictures to enlarge:






 

Honeydew

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Location
Florida
TDI
13 Passat DSG
Like Abacus I run 2-stroke mixed with power service, about 3:1. Both our diesels get the additive.
 

Herm TDI

Vendor
Joined
Nov 21, 2001
Location
Richmond, Maine...The far side of Witsend
TDI
2002 Golf GLS Malone Stage 3, P+520 nozzles, 11MM Inj pump, Sachs VR6 clutch, Stelth Race Pipe, Immo Deleat, EGR Deleat
The ashless 2-cycle oil is (in my opinion) an effective lubrisity additive.
The often over looked issue is lower aromatics (ULSD) thus affecting seal performance (shrinkage).

The wear Scar lubrisity test is a valid scale to measure different products in relation to lubricity. None of the products listed address aromatics and that is where adding an actual OIL to the fuel helps with improved aromatics.


Adding the 2-cycle oil will improve the aromatic content of your fuel. This is one of the reasons to use 2-cycle oil at every fill up.
Lubricate your pump and engine top end and it also helps to keep seals and fuel lines from shringage and becoming brittle (leaking).

I run ashless 2-cycle oil in every diesel I've owned...even my generator is diesel.
.
 
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Herm TDI

Vendor
Joined
Nov 21, 2001
Location
Richmond, Maine...The far side of Witsend
TDI
2002 Golf GLS Malone Stage 3, P+520 nozzles, 11MM Inj pump, Sachs VR6 clutch, Stelth Race Pipe, Immo Deleat, EGR Deleat
2% REG SoyPower biodiesel
HFRR 221, 415 micron improvement.
50:1 ratio of baseline fuel to 100% biodiesel
66.56 oz. of 100% biodiesel per 26 gallons of diesel fuel
Price: market value

2)Opti-Lube XPD
Multi-purpose + anti-gel
cetane improver, demulsifier
HFRR 317, 319 micron improvement.
256:1 ratio
13 oz/tank
$4.35/tank

3)FPPF RV, Bus, SUV Diesel/Gas fuel treatment
Gas and Diesel
cetane improver, emulsifier
HFRR 439, 197 micron improvement
640:1 ratio
5.2 oz/tank
$2.60/tank

4)Opti-Lube Summer Blend
Multi-purpose
demulsifier
HFRR 447, 189 micron improvement
3000:1 ratio
1.11 oz/tank
$0.68/tank

5)Opti-Lube Winter Blend
Muti-purpose + anti-gel
cetane improver
HFRR 461, 175 micron improvement
512:1 ratio
6.5 oz/tank
$3.65/tank

6)Schaeffer Diesel Treat 2000
Multi-purpose + anti-gel
cetane improver, emulsifier, bio-diesel compatible
HFRR 470, 166 micron improvement
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$1.87/tank

7)Super Tech Outboard 2-cycle TC-W3 engine oil
Unconventional (Not ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 or newer systems)
HFRR 474, 162 micron improvement
200:1 ratio
16.64 oz/tank
$1.09/tank

8)Stanadyne Lubricity Formula
Lubricity Only
demulsifier, 5% bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free
HFRR 479, 157 micron improvement
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$1.00/tank

9)Amsoil Diesel Concentrate
Multi-purpose
demulsifier, bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free
HFRR 488, 148 micron improvement
640:1 ratio
5.2 oz/tank
$2.16/tank

10)Power Service Diesel Kleen + Cetane Boost
Multi-purpose
Cetane improver, bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free
HFRR 575, 61 micron improvement
400:1 ratio
8.32 oz/tank
$1.58/tank

11)Howe’s Meaner Power Kleaner
Multi-purpose
Alcohol free
HFRR 586, 50 micron improvement
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$1.36/tank

12)Stanadyne Performance Formula
Multi-purpose + anti-gel
cetane improver, demulsifier, 5% bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free
HFRR 603, 33 micron improvement
480:1 ratio
6.9 oz/tank
$4.35/tank

13)Used Motor Oil, Shell Rotella T 15w40, 5,000 miles used.
Unconventional (Not ULSD compliant, may damage systems)
HFRR 634, 2 micron improvement
200:1 ratio
16.64 oz/tank
price: market value

14)Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant
Gas or diesel
HFRR 641, 5 microns worse than baseline (statistically insignificant change)
427:1 ratio
7.8 oz/tank
$2.65/tank

15)B1000 Diesel Fuel Conditioner by Milligan Biotech
Multi-purpose, canola oil based additive
HFRR 644, 8 microns worse than baseline (statistically insignificant change)
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$2.67/tank

16)FPPF Lubricity Plus Fuel Power
Multi-purpose + anti-gel
Emulsifier, alcohol free
HFRR 675, 39 microns worse than baseline fuel
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$1.12/tank

17)Marvel Mystery Oil
Gas, oil and Diesel fuel additive (NOT ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 and newer systems)
HFRR 678, 42 microns worse than baseline fuel.
320:1 ratio
10.4 oz/tank
$3.22/tank

18)ValvTect Diesel Guard Heavy Duty/Marine Diesel Fuel Additive
Multi-purpose
Cetane improver, emulsifier, alcohol free
HFRR 696, 60 microns worse than baseline fuel
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$2.38/tank

19)Primrose Power Blend 2003
Multi-purpose
Cetane boost, bio-diesel compatible, emulsifier
HFRR 711, 75 microns worse than baseline
1066:1 ratio
3.12 oz/tank
$1.39/tank

CONCLUSIONS:

Products 1 through 4 were able to improve the unadditized fuel to an HFRR score of 460 or better. This meets the most strict requirements requested by the Engine Manufacturers Association.
Products 1 through 9 were able to improve the unadditized fuel to an HFRR score of 520 or better, meeting the U.S. diesel fuel requirements for maximum wear scar in a commercially available diesel fuel.
Products 16 through 19 were found to cause the fuel/additive blend to perform worse than the baseline fuel. The cause for this is speculative. This is not unprecedented in HFRR testing and can be caused by alcohol or other components in the additives. Further investigation into the possibilities behind these poor results will investigated.
Any additive testing within +/- 20 microns of the baseline fuel could be considered to have no significant change. The repeatability of this test allows for a +/- 20 micron variability to be considered insignificant.

CREDITS:

This study would not have been possible without the participation of all companies involved and dieselplace.com. A special Thank You to all of the dieselplace.com members who generously donated toward this study and waited longer than they should have for the results. You folks are the best. Arlen Spicer, organizer.
 

ncroadwarrior

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Location
Beaufort, NC
TDI
04 JSW bew
I've been running this mixture in my powerstroke for the last 4 yrs...

1 oz marine ashless syn 2 cycle oil (walmart tc-3)
4 oz powerservice

have it mixed up in old stanadyne 12 oz plastic bottles....add one b/4 filling up

no issues...

I may start in my JSW but for right now I run powerservice and a qt of B-80 in a mixture...
 
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