2/3rds EVs by 2032... Realistic? (and time to horde diesels?)

Daemon64

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Except CO2 isn't a pollutant. It's plant food.
More correctly it is what plants breath. Because we don't consider oxygen as food. It is a pollutant due to the warming effect. Just like many other things that come out of the tailpipe of cars. The point being is if we can reduce such particulate in existing cars it's massive and while giving these vehicles a better fuel for the boom is always a good thing. Win win
 

turbobrick240

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Chicken manure is plant food too, but I don't want a big pile of it right outside my window or on top of my well.
 

Steve Addy

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I always thought math was a required part of the science curriculum, yet none of these "scientists" have any idea how small and ineffectual 400 parts per million are, or how a gas whose properties do not include heat retention can have a "warming effect". Maybe they've been inhaling too many cow farts.
Yes...they've been inhaling too much of something, whether or not that's farts I cannot say, but what ever it is it seems to be purging off every bit of common sense they ever had...at least IMO.

Steve
 

Steve Addy

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Enjoy your denial, but the graphed lines for CO2 ppm and global warming pretty much match...
And what exactly does that tell you about what the authorities are pushing to accomplish? Or about the graph itself or the validity of the measurements?

Our problem today is that we have people taking too much at face value. Such as suggesting that certain things are "safe and effective."

Just sayin.

Steve
 

gearheadgrrrl

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Their is a slight chance that my assumption is wrong, but with the vast majority of the world's scientists agreeing that global warming is real and caused by man made CO2, the odds are strongly in my favor. And if I'm wrong, not paying for any more carbon than I need certainly don't even hurt. Sounds like you're talking about the COVID vaccines, which like global warming the majority of scientists agree are safe and effective. If I'm wrong, the chances of a serious adverse vaccine reaction after I took the shot are in the low parts per million. If I think I'm smarter than the scientists, not taking the vaccine can get me killed, I can get you the odds if you're curious...
 

turbodieseldyke

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turbodieseldyke

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I expect you to believe that rising CO2 levels could be the result, not the cause, of warming. I wouldn't trust any "scientist" who tells you your 66kw car has a greater effect on the climate than the enormous 400,000,000,000,000,000,000,000kw nuclear powered fireball located 8.5 minutes away.
 

gearheadgrrrl

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That's a novel hypothesis, though pretty improbable... But believable enough to soothe the dumb coal roller's consciences. As for the cars, problem is there's a billion of them, millions of big trucks that emit much more, and often even nastier carbons burned for heating, electricity generation, etc....
 

nwdiver

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There were zero cars on Earth before 1900. What caused all the pre-1900 warming cycles? Campfires?
Changes in the atmosphere. The Earth receives energy mostly in the visible spectrum and rejects it in the IR. CO2 is more transparent to visible than IR, SO2 is more transparent to IR than visible. The sun chugs along at the same output but changes in CO2 and SO2 levels have an enormous effect on the Earths energy budget. That's how we got a 'year without a summer', that's what caused Ice Ages to come and go, that's why the Earth is warming now. CO2 is why Venus is hotter than Mercury despite Mercury being closer to the sun. CO2 levels can rise because the oceans warmed and warmer water is less soluble for CO2. (We know that's not why CO2 levels are rising now because CO2 levels in the oceans are ALSO rising) OR CO2 levels can go up because we're burning ~50B ton of hydro carbons/yr (We know that IS the reason because the math checks out.). We're burning more than enough annually to account for 100% of the observed increase in CO2 levels.

It's pretty basic physics... energy in / energy out. CO2 reduces energy out => more CO2 means the Earth warms.

Radiative forcing
 

Steve Addy

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Changes in the atmosphere. The Earth receives energy mostly in the visible spectrum and rejects it in the IR. CO2 is more transparent to visible than IR, SO2 is more transparent to IR than visible. The sun chugs along at the same output but changes in CO2 and SO2 levels have an enormous effect on the Earths energy budget. That's how we got a 'year without a summer', that's what caused Ice Ages to come and go, that's why the Earth is warming now. CO2 is why Venus is hotter than Mercury despite Mercury being closer to the sun. CO2 levels can rise because the oceans warmed and warmer water is less soluble for CO2. (We know that's not why CO2 levels are rising now because CO2 levels in the oceans are ALSO rising) OR CO2 levels can go up because we're burning ~50B ton of hydro carbons/yr (We know that IS the reason because the math checks out.). We're burning more than enough annually to account for 100% of the observed increase in CO2 levels.

It's pretty basic physics... energy in / energy out. CO2 reduces energy out => more CO2 means the Earth warms.

Radiative forcing
The earth chugs along doing what it wants and man's simply along for the ride. Believing that man can impact the globe to the extent that it alters the environment is hubris...we are weak. The earth might be changing....yes, I don't disagree with that, but it always has, and blaming it on man seems disingenuous.

The shrieking about the end of the world due to the evils of man has been going on now for decades, yet it never seems to arrive. Yet because we have schemes now to tax Americans for the alleged misdeeds it's all fine and dandy...well I can tell you most people, including myself, are more worried about how we're going to put food on the table in the future or how we're going to pay our property taxes in the future vs whether or not we attend to some fly-by-night notion of how Johnny was naughty and the planet will now succumb in some manner.

The globe is changing, as it always has, but this notion that we're going to solve a problem that's not of our making is just another taxation boondoggle.

Steve
 

turbobrick240

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It doesn't really matter that some small percentage of the population are unwilling to accept the science of anthropogenic global warming. Let them enjoy their denialism fantasy. The rest of the world will move forward whether they like it or not.
 

J_dude

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Lol. Remember when the world’s leading scientists thought the earth was flat? Or what about when the world’s leading doctors thought bloodletting was a grand idea? Just keep in mind that we often have no actual clue about what we think we know...
 

Steve Addy

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It doesn't really matter that some small percentage of the population are unwilling to accept the science of anthropogenic global warming. Let them enjoy their denialism fantasy. The rest of the world will move forward whether they like it or not.
No, it doesn't really matter, because if it even was serious there's no way that you'd get participation from enough countries to do anything at all because the US is a tiny fraction of the contributors to the alleged problem yet we're the ones that are apparently dumb enough to consider footing the bill for it. As I mentioned, most rational people are concerned more with where food is going to be coming from and where the money to pay exorbitant property taxes is going to come from because unless you've been under a rock our problem right now is inflation and a collapsing economy, and I have news for you, it's not over yet.

Poor people don't give a rats ass about climate change and honestly if you're on tdiclub then you're not part of the elite that are pontificating on high about what the 'little people' need to do for the climate, and you're also not part of the elite that will profit from this.

You're asking people to seriously reduce their standard of living on a notion that is not only unproven, but faulty, and designed exclusively for the purpose of fleecing the population of more tax dollars to be put in the pockets of those that have already benefited greatly from reckless government spending and extensive misappropriation. That and there's going to be zero possibility of measuring whether it did any good at all.

You want to pay for all this? How about pay for the $31+ trillion in national debt we already have and can't seem to do anything about. That will never be paid and that doesn't address all the unfunded liabilities that aren't included, so double that and maybe you're there.

But this misguided notion that all hell is going to break loose unless we revert to living in caves and discontinue our use of hydrocarbons...you've just been seriously gaslighted for way too long. If we terminated now all hydrocarbon sources for electricity we'd have exactly 11 seconds of electricity and that would be it. That's all you get from renewables....that's it, almost zero. So don't preach to me about what we need to do. Because it sounds like you haven't a clue about what would happen if all hydrocarbon use was discontinued....the economy everywhere would implode...it would all go away and you would have zero employment like everyone else.

So what you really need to do is pray that the climate propagandists don't succeed....because all that you know will vanish. And then you'll get to witness the power the earth possesses to destroy what man constructs...because there will be zero maintenance going forward....zero ...nada.

You want to do something positive for the climate? Get rid of 10 airliners...or 20 private jets....they do far more damage than all the diesel cars in the US combined.

And.....you know what's worse for the climate than any VW tdi? Igniting toxic chemical rail cars in East Palestine Ohio, ...but it was done anyway...and how about West coast wild fires....they jettison far more particulate matter into the atmosphere than my diesel car ever will. These situations are conveniently forgotten or set aside when having the grand climate discussion....

I'm tired of hearing about how bad we all are.

Steve
 

turbobrick240

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Nobody is saying that we need to go cold turkey on fossil fuels. That obviously won't happen. But they will be gradually phased out over the next 40 years or so. Getting upset about that transition is just silly.
 

jdulle

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If they actually cared about saving the planet or even just carbon emissions governments and corporations would offer simple and efficient IC cars. We know they can make them: my 1994 civic vx easily got 55mpg on the highway, and our Tdis can get 50 MPG. The Audi A2 TDI could get 90 MPG. They should at least offer cars like this.

Also, if they really cared about the environment (politicians and CEO's, elite, etc) why do they fly around in private jets, live in giant mansions and use huge amounts of energy? Why listen to them when they don't practice what they preach? Remember Al Gore's movie where he was talking about global warming from the back seat of a Cadillac?

The same families/corporations who bought up the street car tracks and demolished them are the ones now telling us we have to go electric.
I'm not saying we shouldn't try and live more ecologically, I just think that public desire for that is being used to consolidate more power in the hands of the elite.
 

nwdiver

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The earth chugs along doing what it wants and man's simply along for the ride. Believing that man can impact the globe to the extent that it alters the environment is hubris...we are weak. The earth might be changing....yes, I don't disagree with that, but it always has, and blaming it on man seems disingenuous.
Bacteria are pretty 'weak' too... but there's a lot of them. Combined they have an enormous effect. Killed nearly all life on Earth once. 'Great Oxidation Event'.

Physics and math are still physics and math.

Will increasing CO2 levels from ~280 to ~400ppm warm the Earth by ~1C? Physics says yes. Have we burned enough fossil fuels to raise CO2 levels from ~280ppm to >400ppm? Math says yes. Which is wrong and how?
 

turbodieseldyke

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Why listen to them when they don't practice what they preach?
Like that one guy who spent 8 years pushing the warming agenda, then the day after he retired, bought a $11.75 million house on an island, right next to the ocean that's going to flood everything any day now because the ice caps are mellllltiinnnnnnngggggg.
 

Steve Addy

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Nobody is saying that we need to go cold turkey on fossil fuels. That obviously won't happen. But they will be gradually phased out over the next 40 years or so. Getting upset about that transition is just silly.
No....there are people who want the cold turkey and they want it now. Soft-brained fools are now protesting in the US for shuttering everything that operates on hydrocarbons. There will never be enough renewable energy to provide what hydrocarbons provide us with. What's upsetting is to know that so many people have been gaslighted about this topic and can't think for themselves. And no one here has addressed the most basic issue of how the US by itself will not be just pissing in the wind when other countries refuse to get involved. You're sanctioning the seizure of people's wealth for something that is dubious at best. You sidle up to this like it's a religion, *** happened that your first response to any of this isn't skepticism?

Bacteria are pretty 'weak' too... but there's a lot of them. Combined they have an enormous effect. Killed nearly all life on Earth once. 'Great Oxidation Event'.

Physics and math are still physics and math.

Will increasing CO2 levels from ~280 to ~400ppm warm the Earth by ~1C? Physics says yes. Have we burned enough fossil fuels to raise CO2 levels from ~280ppm to >400ppm? Math says yes. Which is wrong and how?
You tell that to people who have only enough to get by on and see how well that goes over. And when other countries that have no money refuse to participate and the US taxes you for the alleged $90 Trillion I hope you enjoy that. You're going to put yourself in a cave before this is over, enjoy that too.

Could you denialists at least come up with some better conspiracy theories?
When the response is nothing but an ad hominom attack on others and has zero merit or nothing to support it except the declaration of a 'conspiracy theory' then you know the respondent has zero to contribute....and as I said before, is way too outer directed. As for the conspiracy theory, just how many conspiracy theories in the past couple of years have turned out to be conspiracy fact? I'll tell you how many...all of them.

Steve
 

turbobrick240

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No....there are people who want the cold turkey and they want it now. Soft-brained fools are now protesting in the US for shuttering everything that operates on hydrocarbons. There will never be enough renewable energy to provide what hydrocarbons provide us with. What's upsetting is to know that so many people have been gaslighted about this topic and can't think for themselves. And no one here has addressed the most basic issue of how the US by itself will not be just pissing in the wind when other countries refuse to get involved. You're sanctioning the seizure of people's wealth for something that is dubious at best. You sidle up to this like it's a religion, *** happened that your first response to any of this isn't skepticism?



You tell that to people who have only enough to get by on and see how well that goes over. And when other countries that have no money refuse to participate and the US taxes you for the alleged $90 Trillion I hope you enjoy that. You're going to put yourself in a cave before this is over, enjoy that too.



When the response is nothing but an ad hominom attack on others and has zero merit or nothing to support it except the declaration of a 'conspiracy theory' then you know the respondent has zero to contribute....and as I said before, is way too outer directed. As for the conspiracy theory, just how many conspiracy theories in the past couple of years have turned out to be conspiracy fact? I'll tell you how many...all of them.

Steve
There's far more than enough solar energy alone to replace all fossil fuel usage. Enough to supply our electricity needs and generate all of the hydrogen and hydrocarbons we'll need for the foreseeable future. You can lay on the train tracks of progress if you like, but that train ain't stopping.
 

gearheadgrrrl

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No....there are people who want the cold turkey and they want it now. Soft-brained fools are now protesting in the US for shuttering everything that operates on hydrocarbons. There will never be enough renewable energy to provide what hydrocarbons provide us with. What's upsetting is to know that so many people have been gaslighted about this topic and can't think for themselves. And no one here has addressed the most basic issue of how the US by itself will not be just pissing in the wind when other countries refuse to get involved. You're sanctioning the seizure of people's wealth for something that is dubious at best. You sidle up to this like it's a religion, *** happened that your first response to any of this isn't skepticism?



You tell that to people who have only enough to get by on and see how well that goes over. And when other countries that have no money refuse to participate and the US taxes you for the alleged $90 Trillion I hope you enjoy that. You're going to put yourself in a cave before this is over, enjoy that too.



When the response is nothing but an ad hominom attack on others and has zero merit or nothing to support it except the declaration of a 'conspiracy theory' then you know the respondent has zero to contribute....and as I said before, is way too outer directed. As for the conspiracy theory, just how many conspiracy theories in the past couple of years have turned out to be conspiracy fact? I'll tell you how many...all of them.

Steve
Steve, sounds like we're from pretty much the same democraphic, working class folks in flyover country who run our TDIs into the ground to get ahead financially. But instead of the balanced view I take, you glom on to conspiracy theories. For example, I've already cut way back on my GHG production and I'm saving money too- I heat with renewables (wood) and fuel my vehicles largely with renewables and cut my carbon purchases substantially just by buying versatile 40+ MPG TDI hatches instead of 15 MPG pickups. As for debt, that's not a relevant issue here... But I worry more about runaway consumer debt driven by stuff like overpriced pickups bought by people who can't afford them with loans longer than the transmission's expected life. Same story with firearms addiction- The same demographic buys them as motorcycles which explains the long term slump in motorcycle sales, and how many working class gun nuts are paying 18% interest on their groceries because they blew all their income and then some on pickups and guns? In comparison, the national debt is less concerning because the government has substantial income streams and assets!
 

J_dude

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Heating with wood produces the very same emissions as the steam engines that you mentioned earlier btw 😂
 
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