2.0 Gen 1 post fix impressions, issues, etc.

TDIJettaz

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
TDI
'14 JSW, '02 JW
Thanks for bringing that up! Check the link below that shows the emissions warranty info. The one I got has 67K miles on it, so the original warranty is no more.

https://www.vwdiesellookup.com/pdf/VWCourtSettlement_Emissions_Disclosure_Gen1_Manual_Final.pdf

I'm actually in the process of fighting for a separate warranty with the dealer, however, as they originally listed it as a certified pre-owned car with a 2 year/24,000 warranty, and then when I made the trip out, they changed the listing on me. I asked about the warranty near the end of the sale, and they said it didn't come with one. I said what??? I accepted the sale, but when I got home, I pulled up the tab that was still loaded in my browser and I saw the before and after of them changing it. I emailed them to the salesman and he now says he's "working on it" for me. I should find out if they do the right thing tomorrow.
 

Galo

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Location
Beaverton, OR
TDI
2010 Jetta 6mt, Malone Stage I, Goals
Update after 9 days on the 'fix' tune:
- flat spot just off idle still there
- have run thru one tank and MPG is down from 39.9 mpg on the last tank before the fix (car's computer) to 37.8, on exactly the same route to and from work, similar traffic, etc.
- Car has done two DPF regens where as before it averaged one regen every tankful -and these two regens lasted quite a bit longer.
- I too have noticed the very regular 'stumbles' at very light throttle, such as one would maintain on a very slight downhill where some throttle is still needed. Stumbles are more frequent in the lower (3rd and 4th) gears.
- definitely much more pronounced diesel 'rattle' between 1400 and 2000 rpms when easing back into the throttle after coasting, as u would do when approaching a traffic light which turns green before you get to it.

Definitely, car is much less enjoyable to drive, so....very torn between selling it or tuning it, concerned of course of something catastrophic happening and having the warranty denied due to the tune.

More thinking to do...
 

fastalan

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Location
Richmond BC
TDI
2010 Golf TDI Wagon
The issue I have been paying attention to regarding gen 1 fix is, quoted from the VW Settlement PDF file

"Engine sound will differ from your vehicle’s prior operation. There
will be increased noise from the engine that is most noticeable at
midrange engine speeds, specifically during moderate acceleration.
Low fuel quality can amplify the sound. The change in sound will
not result in any noticeable changes to the driving characteristics of
your vehicle."

The only low diesel quality that I can think of that would influence the sound of the engine is cetane number. Perhap a more premium grade diesel with a higher cetane number would smooth out the combustion process, thus reducing the rattling and clattering engine noise, no doubt also improve the power output.

Has anyone with gen 1 tried experimenting with cetane additive post fixed?
 

fastalan

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Location
Richmond BC
TDI
2010 Golf TDI Wagon
Thanks for bringing that up! Check the link below that shows the emissions warranty info. The one I got has 67K miles on it, so the original warranty is no more.

https://www.vwdiesellookup.com/pdf/VWCourtSettlement_Emissions_Disclosure_Gen1_Manual_Final.pdf

I'm actually in the process of fighting for a separate warranty with the dealer, however, as they originally listed it as a certified pre-owned car with a 2 year/24,000 warranty, and then when I made the trip out, they changed the listing on me. I asked about the warranty near the end of the sale, and they said it didn't come with one. I said what??? I accepted the sale, but when I got home, I pulled up the tab that was still loaded in my browser and I saw the before and after of them changing it. I emailed them to the salesman and he now says he's "working on it" for me. I should find out if they do the right thing tomorrow.
The emission extended warranty on owner owned car are fully transferable to any future owner. It would be extremely odd if the turned in car (the buy back ones), now owned by dealer, onced fixed and sold as CPO, won't be offering this extended emission warranty.

It would make buying any CPO emission fixed cars sold by the dealer, somewhat less desirable than buying through a private owner who already has his car emission fixed (assuming you can find someone who decides to sell his car shortly after the fix has been completed).
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
The problem with that is most stations in the US do not post cetane numbers. In my 2000 beetle, I would notice different fuel sources effecting performance and engine noise. With the JSW, I've noticed performance issues for poorer quality fuel by lower mpg but haven't detected any difference in engine noise.
 

fastalan

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Location
Richmond BC
TDI
2010 Golf TDI Wagon
Non of the stations in Canada has the cetane number posted as well... we are all guessing. If the engine becomes more vulnerable to cetane number post fix, it would not be too difficult to test it with additive. I mean we've all been driving our cars for some years now, if there is a sound or performance improvement, I think I will be able to feel it.
 

Galo

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Location
Beaverton, OR
TDI
2010 Jetta 6mt, Malone Stage I, Goals
The issue I have been paying attention to regarding gen 1 fix is, quoted from the VW Settlement PDF file

"Engine sound will differ from your vehicle’s prior operation. There
will be increased noise from the engine that is most noticeable at
midrange engine speeds, specifically during moderate acceleration.
Low fuel quality can amplify the sound. The change in sound will
not result in any noticeable changes to the driving characteristics of
your vehicle."

The only low diesel quality that I can think of that would influence the sound of the engine is cetane number. Perhap a more premium grade diesel with a higher cetane number would smooth out the combustion process, thus reducing the rattling and clattering engine noise, no doubt also improve the power output.

Has anyone with gen 1 tried experimenting with cetane additive post fixed?
Fastalan....u know what? Now I do remember that.....thanks for the post/reminder.
No, I have not tried that -not that I could since Orygun stations don't post cetane numbers.
But......I have a fill-up due today so I will add some cetane boosters and report back.

I did notice with the warmer weather yesterday (close to 60 here!) that the mid-range clatter was much reduced....

Thanks again
Galo
 

3Gents

New member
Joined
Jan 30, 2018
Location
Omaha, Nebraska
TDI
2011 Jetta Sports Wagon 6 speed M/T
I’m reading everyone’s input on the fix and want to thank you all for the valuable information you’ve shared on this thread so far.

I haven’t completely decided what to do just yet but I’ve been leaning towards the fix as I absolutely love my manual 2011 JSW and don’t see anything on the market that can compare. I do wonder however, in hindsight, does anyone regret taking the fix over the buyout?
 

ksing44

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Location
Southeast PA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
I’m reading everyone’s input on the fix and want to thank you all for the valuable information you’ve shared on this thread so far.

I haven’t completely decided what to do just yet but I’ve been leaning towards the fix as I absolutely love my manual 2011 JSW and don’t see anything on the market that can compare. I do wonder however, in hindsight, does anyone regret taking the fix over the buyout?
No regrets from me. Like you, I love my car. A GTI would be a great replacement, but it's $30K and I can do that years from now. I'm going to enjoy this car for as long as possible.
 

Galo

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Location
Beaverton, OR
TDI
2010 Jetta 6mt, Malone Stage I, Goals
So.....decision made, Thursday afternoon I am heading over to Bora Parts and getting the Malone Stage 1 tune.

Not just the driving differences, but....warranty or not, I can't see how the twice as frequent DPF regens, the constant bucking and shuddering, flat spot followed by a surge in power, the diesel clatter where there was no clatter before...I can't see those symptoms of a less-well-running engine as contributing to this engine's longevity.

I don't want madz power...I just want my old car back (okay, plus a bit more) without those behaviors which quite honestly, I can't see as boding well for the future...
 

fastalan

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Location
Richmond BC
TDI
2010 Golf TDI Wagon
Did my emission fix on Monday. I drove about 200 km so far with a mix of highway to the US border, city driving in Richmond and downtown Vancouver, also some hard driving fooling around. I filled up the car last tank and current tank with Canadian Shell V-Power diesel, engine pretty much sounds the same like before. I don't normally use this fuel as this is expensive but it's already premixed with extra additive. I have to say the driveability and the torque feels basically the same. It's too early to tell how FE will be affected, but for the remaining of this tank of fuel, I am not going to worry about it.

I will go back to WA state Shell diesel + power service nex time and see how things feel differently if any.
 
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Galo

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Location
Beaverton, OR
TDI
2010 Jetta 6mt, Malone Stage I, Goals
So.....long drive home from Bora Parts (AKA Cascade German) ....Malone Stage 1 tune is in and all is well...
Rattling down significantly...no more bucking and stumbling at part throttle and....ooooohhh, boy...does it pull hard. Easily torquey enough to generate a bit of wheelspin on damp pavement when boost comes on in 2nd gear. But, that's what 51 extra lbs/ft of torque get you.

Love it. Best $499 I ever paid to get something done on a car. It's a keeper now.
 

joshhol

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 5, 2017
Location
AP
TDI
2014 JSW TDI 6MT no sunroof, 1976 MBZ 300D & 1963 MBZ 220S; sold 2013 JSW TDI 6MT
Galo, I'm right behind you with a Stage 1 tune.
No stage 2 for me, trying to spare the clutch as I can.

Let us know how the fuel economy behaves. Did you get flashzilla or go to a shop?
 

Galo

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Location
Beaverton, OR
TDI
2010 Jetta 6mt, Malone Stage I, Goals
Hey Josh!

Went to a shop....Bora Parts here close by in Gresham, Orygun.

After seeing how they loaded the code, I'm not sure I would go the Flashzilla route. What Malone does is fascinating....they:
- pull the whole code from the car's ECU
- 'packet it up' and email it to Malone
- Malone (either Owen or Mark.....it was Mark who did mine) builds on the car's previous, existing ECU coding with their optimized programming
- emails it back to the installer
- the installer uploads that precise code to the car's ECU.

Bottom line, you lose nothing of what was in the ECU before that might control door locks, etc, nor does it undo some parts of the new VW code. For instance, they don't mess around with the settings that trigger DPF regens, etc, so....bottom line, it's as close to the VW code as it gets, just optimized with their precise tuning.

I was impressed....this is classy. Best $499.00 I have ever spent on the car.
 

Joseph wright

New member
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
Location
Albuquerque New Mexico
TDI
2013 Jetta Sport Wagon
2013 Jetta TDI Sportwagon

I am new to the forum. My wife and I love this car. We have put 84,000 miles on it. We have not done any modifications. Does the emission fix include adding a urea tank? Am I correct that the main changes people are noticing are more engine noise, some lose in power, and possibly minor lose in fuel economy?
 

joshhol

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 5, 2017
Location
AP
TDI
2014 JSW TDI 6MT no sunroof, 1976 MBZ 300D & 1963 MBZ 220S; sold 2013 JSW TDI 6MT
Joseph, the fix does not include addition of a urea tank. There's a ton of info all over this site and the web about what the fix entails for specific models. Also, the letter and booklet VW sent you should explain that.
In my case with perhaps identical car (manual), I feel like it's more than a minor loss in fuel economy.
In a do over situation I'd consider a buyback with a swap to a Gen 3 wagon since by some reports, those seem to maintain their very high mpg figures.
 

bockegg

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
PA
TDI
2009 Jetta Loyalty TDi w/ DSG
I am concerned that the fix vehicles will have increased problems over time with the "fixes." Just a hunch.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
You won't get many arguments on that hunch, but it is way too early in the game to even predict what will go wrong first. Although there have been several posts about things that failed immediately after the fix. Probably things that were already on their way to the happy parking lot but just needed a little extra stress to push them over the edge.
 

bockegg

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
PA
TDI
2009 Jetta Loyalty TDi w/ DSG
There are 3 reasons why we love TDi vehicles. 1. Torque. 2. Mileage. 3. Longevity. All 3 of these are compromised by the "fixes" that are proposed. Also, There are gas VW's that take RUG, that get 38 mpg, have adequate torque, and will last a very long time if maintained properly.
 

Diesl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Location
Chicago
TDI
'78 Golf Diesel (long gone); 2012 Jetta Sportwagen TDI w/ DSG
Soot reading goes bonkers after fix

Interesting (to me, at least ;-) observation:
My 2012 TDI wagon was at 15 gram soot reading before dropping it off for the emissions fix, so not too far from the 16.x gram that triggers the DPF burnoff. I got it back reading 23 gram after the fix and a short three mile test drive by the dealership. (When I dropped the car off, they said they would do a 40-50 mile check out drive.) Soon after picking it up, it went into regeneration. I parked it before the burnoff was finished, but DPF pressure differential at idle was at 6 mbar, so close to the final value of 4-5 mbar that I usually observe.
Anyways, after another 30 or so miles the soot reading came alive again (sooner than the usual 55-80 miles), and is now oscillating around 55-65 gram. The particulate filter and EGR tests are in a 'not finished' status, so the car isn't done recalibrating, and I'm not too worried, but I thought this was interesting.

Anybody else looked at their readings after the fix?

Car seems to have the usual oomph. Too early for mileage.
 

MonsterTDI09

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Location
NoVa/NJ
TDI
2010 Jetta DSG/ up keep on 2009 Jetta DSG 2006 Jetta Pag 2 in North SEA Green
I am new to the forum. My wife and I love this car. We have put 84,000 miles on it. We have not done any modifications. Does the emission fix include adding a urea tank? Am I correct that the main changes people are noticing are more engine noise, some lose in power, and possibly minor lose in fuel economy?
You do have the option to do nothing.
 

english

New member
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Location
OR
TDI
2010 TDI Jetta
This is how the fix went on my 2010 Jetta.
135,000 miles on it. Buyback estimate $13,000-ish.

Several months ago I decided to take the fix. Started the online paperwork. Was in no hurry. Then, last month, the check engine light came on. Dealer reported it was a P0401. The particulate filter (replaced at about 70K miles and costs absorbed by VW) tested bad. Estimated cost (rough) >$2500.

Service Manager checked with VW to see whether the company would cover the particulate filter. The response was, if I agreed to the fix, they would decide when I brought the car in for the fix.
I reported for the fix a couple days ago.
When the TDI Tech set to work he found a code P2015, too. Intake manifold. Evaluation confirmed a sticking runner. Estimated cost (rough) $800.

Service Manager reported these things to VW. My plan, if they declined to pay a significant part of costs was to switch to buyback, but I did not say so.

But within hours, VW did decide to complete both of those expensive repairs at no cost to me, and do the fix, and make the full restitution payment, and decided this while I motored about in a brand new Tiguan at VW expense.

That's a pretty big deal, considering the possible future warranty repairs.

I have only about 15 post-fix miles on the car, so, except that the fans were running as if it was in regen the whole time, and the car still feels the same in every way, I can say no more.

I don't think VW owed ME a thing. Eight YEARS ago, I wanted a car and liked theirs. I paid a fair price and got the car. Business undertaken, and business concluded. Pretty nice of VW to treat me this well so long after.
Just one man's experience and opinion.

Now I'd like to find an inexpensive wireless-to-smartphone OBD reader to report fault codes and meanings to me in case I get post-fix problems. I'd like to be able to distinguish non-critical faults from those best handled after a tow to the dealer.
 

Diesl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Location
Chicago
TDI
'78 Golf Diesel (long gone); 2012 Jetta Sportwagen TDI w/ DSG
Update on fix

Interesting (to me, at least ;-) observation:
My 2012 TDI wagon was at 15 gram soot reading before dropping it off for the emissions fix, so not too far from the 16.x gram that triggers the DPF burnoff. I got it back reading 23 gram after the fix and a short three mile test drive by the dealership. (When I dropped the car off, they said they would do a 40-50 mile check out drive.) Soon after picking it up, it went into regeneration. I parked it before the burnoff was finished, but DPF pressure differential at idle was at 6 mbar, so close to the final value of 4-5 mbar that I usually observe.
Anyways, after another 30 or so miles the soot reading came alive again (sooner than the usual 55-80 miles), and is now oscillating around 55-65 gram. The particulate filter and EGR tests are in a 'not finished' status, so the car isn't done recalibrating, and I'm not too worried, but I thought this was interesting.

Anybody else looked at their readings after the fix?

Car seems to have the usual oomph. Too early for mileage.
Picked the car up on Friday, on Monday the money was in the bank. :D

PM monitor and EGR/VVT monitor still report 'incomplete', and the soot measurement still fluctuates between 55 and 85 gram, occasionally up to 150 gram. It's 150 miles since the last burnoff, which occured soon after picking the car up from the emissions modification.

Update 2018-2-14: about 200 miles after the emissions modification, the last two tests now also report 'complete'. No fault codes, but the soot value read from mode 6 still has not come back to its previous behavior. Maybe the format of that record has changed? I think somebody with a Passat TDI reported a different data alignment. I'll have to have a look at the raw data again.
Update 2018-2-15: Changing the Mode 6 PID B2 soot readout formula from ((R49<8+R50)/100 to ((R40<8+R41)/100 makes the soot load readout work again. The R40/R41 formula is the one that worked for a Passat and a 2014 Jetta - see http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=464119&page=3.
 
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joshhol

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 5, 2017
Location
AP
TDI
2014 JSW TDI 6MT no sunroof, 1976 MBZ 300D & 1963 MBZ 220S; sold 2013 JSW TDI 6MT
Got the Malone stage 1 after 2 months and 2,000 miles on the “fix” and I’m not looking back. I’ve yet to stretch its legs on the highway much but the engine is smooth again and it seems much healthier. The tune has restored the joy of driving a TDI. This is a must have if you are bothered by performance at all after the fix.
Haven’t guaged mpg effect yet.
 

ksing44

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Location
Southeast PA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
Got the Malone stage 1 after 2 months and 2,000 miles on the “fix” and I’m not looking back.
I'm waiting for now, but I'm pretty sure that day will come for me. The frequency of the regens is a real nuisance. I always disliked the long DPF regens that happened at inconvenient times, e.g., pulling into my driveway after an hour commute. But now I have very frequent shorter regens that affect the normal smooth running of the engine.

I think the shorter regens must be related to the new bigger NOx tap. I had them before but they were shorter and much less frequent. When it happens, the car lurches and and pauses as the fuel management is disrupted. Of course I can try to ignore it and dismiss it as the new normal operation, but it's really not an enjoyable thing.

I really do think the best thing would be a tune and delete. No more regens, better mpg, and even better performance too. I don't need a faster car. I just think improved mpg, smoother operation, and no more regens would be a nice thing. It also eliminates some of the things that can go wrong with the car.

Good luck with your car!
 

ezshift5

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2003
Location
West Coast
TDI
2013 JSW TDI (Enroute BB).......2017 Jetta 1.4 turbo 5M ....................
There are 3 reasons why we love TDi vehicles. 1. Torque. 2. Mileage. 3. Longevity. All 3 of these are compromised by the "fixes" that are proposed. Also, There are gas VW's that take RUG, that get 38 mpg, have adequate torque, and will last a very long time if maintained properly.
I could not agree more on 2 of 3: Torque, MPG (Longevity - HPFP and DPF potential issues pertain - is another story for this sailor).

I sure miss the '13 JSW TDI 6M.

But - Senor Egg - your last sentence hit the nail on the head.

My recently acquired Jetta !.4 TSI 5M at just under 5000 miles has averaged (per Fuelly dot com) 39.5 MPG in 70/30 City/Hwy ...............like you indicate on RUG.

best, ez
 

Galo

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Location
Beaverton, OR
TDI
2010 Jetta 6mt, Malone Stage I, Goals
I'm waiting for now, but I'm pretty sure that day will come for me. The frequency of the regens is a real nuisance. I always disliked the long DPF regens that happened at inconvenient times, e.g., pulling into my driveway after an hour commute. But now I have very frequent shorter regens that affect the normal smooth running of the engine.
ksing....I had the Malone Stage 1 tune recently and on the above, the Malone tune does not do away with the more frequent or longer regens the 'fix tune' causes. Malone does not mess around with those segments of VW's ECU programming that 'negate' the fix, but builds on top of that to return the car's performance -and then some. actually, 'and then a lot' is better phrasing because the car is now awesome -but yes, it still has the longer/more frequent regens of 'the fix' code.

That said, while doing regens, it's not doing the bucking and lurching it did with the VW tune. It's DPF'ing, but very smooth while it DPFs

If you want to do away with the regens, you have to ask for one of their 'DPF delete' tunes
 
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STRANGETDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2001
Location
East Hampton, CT
TDI
2013 Audi A3 S-Line Premium Plus Quattro - APR Stage II
Is the manual vs DSG post fix effects pretty much the same? What are people noticing? Still contemplating fix or buyback. I have a manual.
 

forrest resto`s

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2007
Location
athens ga.
TDI
2000 jetta tdi auto rc2 2013 passat tdi 2015 passat tdi auto 2011 jetta tdi nav. s'roof..man. dpf delete 1970 GTO JUDGE 520 HP
Is the manual vs DSG post fix effects pretty much the same? What are people noticing? Still contemplating fix or buyback. I have a manual.
I have a 2011 jetta 6m (manual) with 50,000 miles on it and have not noticed ANY after effects EXCEPT 1 or 2 mpg's lost and a little more frequent regens..really negligible...car is as awesome as ever in my opinion! not to mention the hefty cash gift;) and the great ex. warranty!:D
 

STRANGETDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2001
Location
East Hampton, CT
TDI
2013 Audi A3 S-Line Premium Plus Quattro - APR Stage II
Thanks for the feedback. I've pretty much made the decision to sell my TDI back (90% sure, did not fill out the paper work yet). My thoughts are that it has about 119,000 miles on it already. If I got the fix, and after that warranty expired (about 3 years for me), I just don't know what it's value would be or how easy it would be to get rid of, when I decide to sell it/trade it in. VW will give me $19,000 for it now.

Looking for a low mileage MK6 R, but am still torn on what to do.
 
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