2.0 Gen 1 fix approved

[meerschm]

Sounds like the warranty period got upped during our wait since they first announced the potential "fix" (in January)

I consider this good news.

 

[93celicaconv]

I have a 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition. Regarding the diesel particulate filter (DPF), is mine in some way different than the MY2009 DPF (which is getting replaced on MY2009 models, but not on MY2010+ models)? I thought MY2009 & MY2010 DPFs were identical?

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

The DPF itself may be the same, but the exhaust assembly is not. In 2009 the DPF and CAT are one unit. in 2010 they manufactured them as separate units. 2009 cars are getting both because they can't just replace one.

 

[StayPuff]

I have a 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition. Regarding the diesel particulate filter (DPF), is mine in some way different than the MY2009 DPF (which is getting replaced on MY2009 models, but not on MY2010+ models)? I thought MY2009 & MY2010 DPFs were identical?

They're not identical. The reason the DPF on 2009s is getting replaced is because the converter and dpf is a one piece part....and on the 2010s it's two separate parts.

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/thread...ea-engine-in-audi-a3-golf-and-jetta-tdi.2163/

 

[93celicaconv]

Got it. The DPF & EGR, while not in the emissions hardware replacement program for MY2010+ Jetta's, are still covered by the extended emissions warranty (as is the HPFP and other engine/exhaust/fuel related components), right?

 

[BarnyardsTDI]

I've been curious if existing problems with emissions items that are noted during the time of the fix will be addressed. For instance, I have a slow leak on my EGR cooler. I wonder if the techs will be instructed to only put a CAT and or DPF and Cat (2009 model year), reflash the ECU, and send it out the door. If so I'll wait a while and come back telling them I have a leak in my EGR cooler. Since it will be covered in the extended emissions warranty, I would assume they would replace it. Wondering other members thoughts on this. Thanks!

 

[StayPuff]

I don't think anyone has seen any docs for the Gen 1 new extended warranty yet, but I could be wrong. If I'm right, then any claims that other components that are not replaced to "fix" the emissions problem are going to be covered is pure speculation.

That said, my car is a 2010 Jetta with 117K miles, and with exception to a newer battery and a couple of replaced light bulbs it is 100% stock and 100% original. Even the belts are still fine and are original. I can't see VW including my original DPF, HPFP, EGR, etc. in a new extended warranty. But hey, stranger things have happened....and it would be great news for those who don't plan to mod their cars after the repair.

 

[93celicaconv]

Here was the language of the Gen 1 warranty extension after the fix is completed:

Warranty Extension for Certain Emissions-Related Components

Once the updated emissions control system software has been installed in your vehicle, Volkswagen will extend your Emissions Control Systems Warranty for certain emissions-related components. The warranty period for the “Extended Emissions Warranty”is the greater of:
• 10 years and 6 months or 126,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the vehicle’s original in-service date; OR
• 4 years and 6 months or 54,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the date and mileage of the emissions modification.

The vehicle's original in-service date is defined as the date the vehicle was delivered to either the original purchaser or the original lessee; or if the vehicle was first placed in service as a "demonstrator" or "company"car, on the date such vehicle was first placed in service.

The emissions control system warranty covers all components which are replaced as part of the emissions modification and any component which can reasonably be impacted by effects of the emissions modification.

The emissions system warranty shall cover the following parts or systems:
• The entire exhaust gas after treatment system, including the Diesel Oxidation Catalytic Convertor (DOC), the NOx Reduction Catalytic Converter, the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF), the exhaust flap, and all sensors and actuators;
• The entire fuel system, including fuel pumps, high pressure fuel rail, fuel injectors, vibration damper, pressure control valve and all sensors and actuators;
• The EGR system, including EGR valves, EGR cooler, EGR filter, EGR temperature sensor, all related hoses and pipes, and all sensors and actuators;
• The air intake pipe and charge air cooler, charge air temperature sensor and air-mass sensor (HFM);
• The turbocharger, including the turbocharger damper;
• The glow plug;
• The On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) system, any malfunctions detected by the On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) system other than those related to the transmission.

Additionally, the engine long block warranty shall cover the engine sub-assembly that consists of the assembled block, crankshaft, cylinder head, camshaft, and valve train.

In our continuing efforts to assure proper performance of Volkswagen vehicles, your dealer will diagnose and replace the emissions-related components listed in this section, if necessary, at no cost to you as long as the vehicle remains within the time and mileage limits of this warranty extension. Please keep this letter with your warranty booklet and deliver it to any new owner, along with the owner’s manual.

This warranty extension covers only the diagnosis and replacement of the emissions-related components listed in this section. If the warranty service is expected to take longer than three hours, VW must provide a loaner vehicle. Should you ever sell the vehicle, this warranty extension is fully transferable to subsequent owners.

This warranty extension will not cover:
• Any damage or malfunctions caused by installation of non-EPA or non-CARB certified emissions related parts, including such damage or malfunction to parts needed for proper diagnosis of a covered part.
• Damage or malfunctions caused by outside influence, such as damage due to an accident, or vehicle misuse or neglect.

All normal warranty provisions remain in effect. The extended emissions warranty includes parts, labor, and applicable taxes. The extended emissions warranty shall not void or supersede any existing warranty. Conflicts concerning the warranty are to be resolved in favor of the consumer. If the vehicle has been modified by the customer prior to receiving the emissions modification in a manner that may yield a non-compliant emissions system (for example, removal of a catalyst, installation of parts that impact emissions or emissions-related parts, or modifications to the ECU or computer software of the vehicle), Volkswagen may not be able to perform the emissions modification until the customer corrects such modification.

More information about your extended emissions warranty coverage is available at www.vwdiesellookup.com.

 

[StayPuff]

Very interesting, thanks. Sounds good. Where did this come from? I'm signed up for the repair, but nothing like that has been mailed to me.

So if I'm reading that right, if someone currently has a defective part like a cracked DPF, for example, and there are no signs of modifying or abuse, VW is going to replace it/them for free. That is still hard for me to believe on such old vehicles, but that is excellent if that's the case.

 

[StayPuff]

I'm re-reading that again, and that reads like an April Fool's joke....too good to believe. Has anyone else received that document?

 

[93celicaconv]

I don't interpret the warranty as you do. The warranty extension doesn't go into effect until the modifications have been installed on the vehicle. If your vehicle is currently out of warranty, and a pre-existing defect is identified prior to the emissions fix being started, I believe VW will require this pre-existing defect to be repaired at your cost prior to starting the emissions fix (that is, if VW identifies such a defect prior to starting the work). If VW doesn't find a defect, I suspect a repair of a defect would be covered under the extended warranty after the emissions fix is completed (as VW would interpret the defect to have developed after the emissions fix was completed, therefore under the extended warranty).

 

[drsven]

I don't interpret the warranty as you do. The warranty extension doesn't go into effect until the modifications have been installed on the vehicle. If your vehicle is currently out of warranty, and a pre-existing defect is identified prior to the emissions fix being started, I believe VW will require this pre-existing defect to be repaired at your cost prior to starting the emissions fix (that is, if VW identifies such a defect prior to starting the work). If VW doesn't find a defect, I suspect a repair of a defect would be covered under the extended warranty after the emissions fix is completed (as VW would interpret the defect to have developed after the emissions fix was completed, therefore under the extended warranty).

I believe you are correct. So let's say we have a 'MY 2014' with an existing CEL (damaged DPF). Will VW require us to resolve the issue as an out of pocket expense before the vehicle is eligible to receive the "fix" and extended emissions warranty?

I'm not complaining one bit about it *IF* they take that stance, but it certainly puts people in a tough financial situation that may have otherwise opted for the fix vs. buyback. VW should probably release some sort of official statement, rather than having to rely on a case-by-case (dealership discretion) judgement on this.

Too bad there isn't a bridge warranty on the 2.0L.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I agree with 93celicaconv, that the warranty will be in effect after the fix is in place. If the dealer finds items that need repair or replacement in the course of performing the fix (cracked DPF, broken EGR, whatever) they may want to charge the customer for that repair before they perform the fix.

That makes sense to me. If an owner has deferred maintenance or repairs waiting for a fix to be approved, now's the time to catch up. And since everyone is being compensated for their trouble, they should be able to pay for whatever's wrong with the car. If the cost of repairs that the owner has to bear exceeds the payout, then perhaps it's a better idea to let VW buy it back.

 

[drsven]

My only criticism is that VW seemed to be denying coverage on emissions related repairs which likely should have been covered by the original emissions warranty coverage before this whole mess started.

It seems to come down to the discretion of the local dealership/service writer and their willingness to go to bat for the customer with VW.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

My only criticism is that VW seemed to be denying coverage on emissions related repairs which likely should have been covered by the original emissions warranty coverage before this whole mess started.

It seems to come down to the discretion of the local dealership/service writer and their willingness to go to bat for the customer with VW.

Do you know what happened to people who attempted to have emissions related repairs covered by warranty after September 19, 2015? Were they denied warranty coverage? I would think if a customer has documentation of that happening it would be help get the repair covered now.

 

[drsven]

Do you know what happened to people who attempted to have emissions related repairs covered by warranty after September 19, 2015? Were they denied warranty coverage? I would think if a customer has documentation of that happening it would be help get the repair covered now.

I personally dealt with this on a vehicle, within miles of the 23o6 flash (I believe this is correct number) which was required to pass CA emissions test.

Sensor had failed. Without getting into detail, I ultimately paid for the repair out of pocket. I was tired of arguing with the dealership and the VW loyalty card had covered a majority of the repair costs.

 

[StayPuff]

I don't interpret the warranty as you do. The warranty extension doesn't go into effect until the modifications have been installed on the vehicle. If your vehicle is currently out of warranty, and a pre-existing defect is identified prior to the emissions fix being started, I believe VW will require this pre-existing defect to be repaired at your cost prior to starting the emissions fix (that is, if VW identifies such a defect prior to starting the work). If VW doesn't find a defect, I suspect a repair of a defect would be covered under the extended warranty after the emissions fix is completed (as VW would interpret the defect to have developed after the emissions fix was completed, therefore under the extended warranty).

That makes more sense about the pre existing problems, but still hard to believe they are going to warranty parts that have 117K miles on them....unless this is their escape: ".....impacted by effects of the emissions modification." That could mean that the old original parts may not be covered unless it can be proven it was rendered defective from the modification, not from normal wear?

Help me understand the warranty statement that says: "The warranty period for the “Extended Emissions Warranty”is the greater of:" I don't understand that. Is it saying you get the option that gives you the longest warranty coverage? My car is 7 years old with 117K. So do I get the 4.5/54K coverage?

 

[GoFaster]

... but still hard to believe they are going to warranty parts that have 117K miles on them....

VW probably wouldn't do so of their own generosity, but the court said "thou shalt", so they don't have any choice in the matter.

unless this is their escape: ".....impacted by effects of the emissions modification." That could mean that the old original parts may not be covered unless it can be proven it was rendered defective from the modification, not from normal wear?

You are reading it wrong; the words "any component which can reasonably be impacted by effects of the emissions modification" are then followed by a list of components and systems that are explicitly to be included in the warranty coverage. The only exceptions are if non-approved (i.e. aftermarket / performance) parts are installed ... so don't do that; leave it stock the way VW gives it back to you and don't touch it; or if there is "outside influence, misuse, or neglect" (so don't jump the car off curbs in a way that might smash the underside, and continue to follow the maintenance schedule).

Help me understand the warranty statement that says: "The warranty period for the “Extended Emissions Warranty”is the greater of:" I don't understand that. Is it saying you get the option that gives you the longest warranty coverage? My car is 7 years old with 117K. So do I get the 4.5/54K coverage?

It's not options that you have to select between, it's an automatically applied logical "OR".

The first part of the "OR" is the 10.5 yrs and 126,000 mi from original in-service date. You've got 3.5 years and 9,000 miles to go, which ever comes first. It's highly likely that you will cover that 9,000 miles before time expires.

The second part of the "OR" is 4.5 yrs and 54,000 mi from the time that the fix is applied.

Since a logical OR is true if either input is true, the fact that you will have gone past the time and mileage from the original in-service date is irrelevant because the other part of the OR statement is 4.5 yrs and 54,000 mi from the time that he fix is applied which will be true until either that time or that mileage expire.

 

[StayPuff]

I guess how I'm understanding the sentence "any component which can reasonably be impacted by effects of the emissions modification" is that the word "effects" when used as a noun actually means "results". So that said, they are saying "....impacted by the [results] of the emissions modification."

No??

Also, I still don't understand the warranty period thing. What do they mean by the phrase ..."the greater of..."? The greater of what???

BTW, my wife doesn't understand this either, and we are both pretty educated. I guess it's the legal jargon that has us puzzled....when in reality it's super simple, but we just can't seem to grasp it.

Addendum: Ok, after reading and re-reading a hundred times, I think it's sinking in now. I've always understood that it's not an option that I choose from, but a 'category' that my car will fall into. It's just trying to figure out which one that was puzzling me. As i mentioned in a previous post, but wasn't sure, 4.5/54K is the category that my car will fit into, as it will give me a "greater" amount of warranty coverage vs. the first category since I have too many years and miles for that one to apply. Yes?

 

[Galo]

It's not options that you have to select between, it's an automatically applied logical "OR".

The first part of the "OR" is the 10.5 yrs and 126,000 mi from original in-service date. You've got 3.5 years and 9,000 miles to go, which ever comes first. It's highly likely that you will cover that 9,000 miles before time expires.

The second part of the "OR" is 4.5 yrs and 54,000 mi from the time that the fix is applied.

Since a logical OR is true if either input is true, the fact that you will have gone past the time and mileage from the original in-service date is irrelevant because the other part of the OR statement is 4.5 yrs and 54,000 mi from the time that he fix is applied which will be true until either that time or that mileage expire.

Okay, let me run this by you for your thoughts/opinion:
- my car = 2010 with 114k miles
- at the rate I'm driving it now/since I changed jobs, it's unlikely that I will get to 126k miles by May 2018 which I understand is 'the deadline', so.....say it has just 122k miles in May of 2018, and I get the fix at 122k miles.
- Does that mean I get just a 4k mile extended warranty??

I may have to get something in writing on this matter because the extended warranty is worth more than the $5.1k cash payout

 

[StayPuff]

Galo, I'm wondering the same thing, but I think the 4.5/54K warranty will be what you get, like me, since it's the "greater" of the two....factoring in our mileage and age.

 

[turbobrick240]

At the very least everyone gets the 4.5 years or 54k miles (whichever occurs first)of extended coverage from the date/mileage the fix is installed. It's really pretty simple.

 

[Galo]

Thanks StayPuff and Turbobrick...hat's the way I initially interpreted the decree as well, and by the time I do this, we'll have plenty of 'real life reports' on this matter......

For the record, if what we think is the case is true, I'll probably wait until my car is at 119.5k miles before I have the fix because of the current HPFP and DPF warranty to 120k miles, so...I'll probably be one of us who will have this done later versus sooner...

Added via edit: any thoughts on what this would do for longer-term desirability for our cars, give so many have been sent to the crusher? Fact of the matter is, there will be a very low number of 'approved' Gen 1's out there than there are today...
Hmmnnnn....

 

[In the Red]

Thanks StayPuff and Turbobrick...hat's the way I initially interpreted the decree as well, and by the time I do this, we'll have plenty of 'real life reports' on this matter......

For the record, if what we think is the case is true, I'll probably wait until my car is at 119.5k miles before I have the fix because of the current HPFP and DPF warranty to 120k miles, so...I'll probably be one of us who will have this done later versus sooner...

Added via edit: any thoughts on what this would do for longer-term desirability for our cars, give so many have been sent to the crusher? Fact of the matter is, there will be a very low number of 'approved' Gen 1's out there than there are today...
Hmmnnnn....

How is your DPF covered till 120 k?

 

[fookin]

Sweet. That should shut up all the "experts" who insisted that there would be no fix for the gen 1 cars.

There still is not fix for these cars in the context of compliance to what they were originally certified for. The settlement has redefined "fix" to allow for a reasonable, verified modification. So instead of spewing 30x to 40x original, allowable emissions, they can now spew 3x or 4x, or whatever that number is, but not 1x. In terms of the settlement, that's a fix but the goal posts were moved.

 

[turbobrick240]

There still is not fix for these cars in the context of compliance to what they were originally certified for. The settlement has redefined "fix" to allow for a reasonable, verified modification. So instead of spewing 30x to 40x original, allowable emissions, they can now spew 3x or 4x, or whatever that number is, but not 1x. In terms of the settlement, that's a fix but the goal posts were moved.

And your point is....? The goal posts weren't moved with respect to the fix. The fix was never required to bring the cars into compliance with the original standard.

 

[DanB36]

There still is not fix for these cars in the context of compliance to what they were originally certified for.

...which was never the requirement under the settlements. Since they were released, it was public knowledge that a fix didn't have to meet the originally certified standards. All of the frustrating combination of ignorance and certainty that we saw around here was after the settlements were released.

The ones "moving the goalposts" are those who, like you, were so certain there would be no fix. Now you're redefining "fix" to mean something it never meant under the settlement.

 

[Galo]

How is your DPF covered till 120 k?

Sorry, my bad....fast fingers.
HPFP is covered to 120k miles, not DPF

 

[Dup_Loop]

A link to the booklet was posted this morning. https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/en/docs/emissions/VW_BOOKLET_2L-Gen-1-AUT-v4.pdf

 

[fookin]

...which was never the requirement under the settlements. Since they were released, it was public knowledge that a fix didn't have to meet the originally certified standards. All of the frustrating combination of ignorance and certainty that we saw around here was after the settlements were released.

The ones "moving the goalposts" are those who, like you, were so certain there would be no fix. Now you're redefining "fix" to mean something it never meant under the settlement.

Yes, I was certain there would be no fix in the context I wrote and that remains. Case closed. I'm not arguing anything else.