1Z Not running after pump resealing

[markd89]

We followed the steps in this thread http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=287336

After re-assembling the pump, and priming with mity-vac and lots of fruitless cranking, we are getting a dribble at best at the injectors.

I checked and there is no +12 volts at the fuel cutoff solenoid during cranking. I think that's a clue.

I checked for codes and there were none.

We put a jumper on the solenoid to supply the 12 volts and there seems to be a little fuel coming out at the injector junctions but not the gushes I would have thought of. I also have error codes now, but I think those are caused by the fuel solenoid jumper wire.

So questions...

1. With the injector lines cracked and the engine cranking, am I right to expect righteous squirting of fuel or would a dribble be normal?

2. Any suggestions on what I have screwed up putting things back together to have these symptoms? (i.e. no 12 volts at the solenoid)

I'm quite confident that everything was done according to the video instructions with the one exception of the QA nub into the collar. As the video says, you can see it going in up until the last moment. I don't think that would cause this symptom, but maybe?

I appreciate any help.

Thanks!
Mark

 

[oldpoopie]

If the quantity adjuster isnt in the right spot it can cause this.... Not enough fuel to run. Try "hammer" mod a bit to adjust iq to give more fuel. (Towards drivers side)

[/QUOTE]

 

[fnj2]

What makes you think the fuel should "gush out" during cranking at way less than idle speed? I believe these engines consume something like 0.4 gph at idle when warmed up - at 128 oz to the gal, that corresponds to about 1/7 oz per 10 seconds for the entire engine, or around 1/4 teaspoon per injector per 10 seconds.

Now 250 rpm is a lot less than idle speed, but a bunch of extra fuel is supplied when cold, and during cranking. The above calculation will serve as a gross approximation to show how little fuel is required.

 

[markd89]

Thanks, gents!

What about the cutoff solenoid not seeing 12V while cranking?

Thanks,
Mark

 

[Abacus]

When cranking, are you getting fuel into the pump and out the return line?

Look at the fuel line and see if any air bubbles are moving when cranking, also check to make sure there is fuel in the line.

Hook up a catch can to the fuel filter return hose and crank, it should start to fill.

If it does, then the IP is primed. If it does not, then either something is restricting it or it is not primed yet.

You need 12v at the solenoid to have fuel to the injectors. Hooking up the jumper wire is a good idea but it will not throw a code when you do this, so any codes are resulting from something else. The solenoid will only see 12v for a short time (~5 seconds) without the car starting if you stop cranking so you need to have the meter hooked up when you're cranking, otherwise you could miss the window and think it wasn't getting 12v when it was and just timed out.

If the QA nub isn't in the collar, then you will get an instant runaway but the car will start. Hopefully it'll shut down with the key.

Oldpoopie is correct, try hammer modding the QA to the driver's side, but just 1/32" at a time, and try again. It doesn't need to move much.

If you are getting fuel and it's still not starting, then report back and we can direct you from there.

I assume you have a Vag-Com, what are the values in Group 019?

 

[markd89]

Thanks, Abacus.

Here's the logic I think I should be following based on your and oldpoopie's advice:

1. Put the test light on the solenoid and crank. If I don't get a light at all, look at electrical things like connectors. My harness is custom, but I don't remember any fuses, so I think it should be a connector.

If there is a light then continue with...

2. Check the return line for fuel movement.

Note that I did mighty-vac the return line and pulled about 1/2 cup of fuel through it. Does that mean I am primed?

If I see fuel movement...

3. Hammer mod to get more fuel (less IQ).

Please let me know what you think. I'm going to get a ride over to the shop later today (6am now) and get started.

P.S. Here's the errors I see in Vagcom. I didn't have any codes after lots of cranking, then after cranking with the jumper wire we saw these.

Thanks much!
Mark

 

[Abacus]

Did you clear the codes and do they still come back?

Did you check the black/white wire to the IP? It tends to chafe through just below the connector.

It sounds like it's primed but that would tell you for sure.

 

[markd89]

I am going out there this morning and will clear codes and try again as well as the other ideas. The solenoid wire is hooked up, but I will check that the wire isn't broken.

1. As far as the fuel going in to the catch can when cranking. Does that only occur for the 5 seconds while the solenoid is triggered?

2. With the solenoid off, I should still see fuel coming from the return line, just not fuel coming out injectors, is that right?

Thanks much,
Mark

 

[Abacus]

With the solenoid off the fuel will still go into the catch can while cranking. The solenoid is only to allow flow forward to the injectors.

The B4/A3 has an issue with a plastic collet around the injection pump wiring just below the 3 wire connector near the injection pump. It is a common chafe point and has caused several shutdowns/no starts that I have come across.

Here are a few (all different cars) that I've come across.

 

[markd89]

Much thanks, I'm up and running!!

Here's the story:

The solenoid was getting 12 volts. The test light (Snap-on) was broken. Once that was figured out, we knew the electrical stuff was OK.

The pump was primed correctly as verified by filling a jar from the pump outlet.

The pump was too lean, so hammer mod to richen it up. After that, it started right up.

There were some additional complications: With all the cranking we killed my battery. It had already been dying. The starter also had been dying and got worse, so swapped in a used one I had been saving. So three new seals, battery and starter and things seem to be good. I'll know tomorrow when there's no puddle under the bus.

Thanks again!!

Mark

 

[oldpoopie]

My wife sings a little song to me every time she wins an argument, it goes a little something like this... "Whos right? Whos right? WHOS RIGHT? It's me, its me, ITS ME!!!!"



-J

Much thanks, I'm up and running!!

Here's the story:

The solenoid was getting 12 volts. The test light (Snap-on) was broken. Once that was figured out, we knew the electrical stuff was OK.

The pump was primed correctly as verified by filling a jar from the pump outlet.

The pump was too lean, so hammer mod to richen it up. After that, it started right up.

There were some additional complications: With all the cranking we killed my battery. It had already been dying. The starter also had been dying and got worse, so swapped in a used one I had been saving. So three new seals, battery and starter and things seem to be good. I'll know tomorrow when there's no puddle under the bus.

Thanks again!!

Mark

 

[Steve Addy]

My wife sings a little song to me every time she wins an argument, it goes a little something like this... "Whos right? Whos right? WHOS RIGHT? It's me, its me, ITS ME!!!!"



-J

pow right in the kisser
pow right in the kisser
pow right in the kisser
pow right in the kisser
pow right in the kisser

 

[oldpoopie]

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