1Z/AHU into 78 Bus

markd89

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Sorry, how are your intercoolers setup right now? Why not one big one? Space?
The intercoolers are sequential. See post #237 for a pic. I did two because I already had one and it was easy-ish to add the second. Also, I wasn't sure I could fit one big one in there, so yes, you're right :)

I can boost to 12 psi continuous and have a decent IAT now. Also EGTs are at least 100*F lower, maybe 200*F.

Mark
 

Digital Corpus

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Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Location
Ontario, California
TDI
'97 B4 w/ 236K mi body, 46K mi soul
One big one might be the solution though. In electronics, 2 or 3 capacitors in parallel provide better decoupling, a term for removing noise from power supply lines, than just 1 of equivalent value. If you want to experiment and see, feel free but it may not be needed fwiw.
 

markd89

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
I had a leak in the three way cooling hose which runs from the middle of the engine down to the oil cooler and oil pump.

We replaced it with this kit: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1630565

The kit includes 3 hoses. What's nice here besides that the material should outlast the rest of the vehicle is that we're elminating several joining areas and hose clamps so there's less places to leak.

Pics of the installed tubes:



 

markd89

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Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Minor update. I installed a bleeder right before the intake of the IC pump. That seems to have resolved the pump sometimes getting stuck on air bubbles.

If I had to do it all again, I would do this IC setup instead:http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=4866166

My current setup with two sequential A2W intercoolers and a 24x12 radiator mounted underneath yields IAT at 10-35*F above ambient. The worst I have seen is 140*F on a 100* degree day on a long up hill. Yesterday I was driving on a cooler day and IATs around 100 on a long freeway run. Around town 80-90*F are the norm.

The A2A setup above is superior, I think because the IATs are still lower than mine and more importantly, the complexity and weight are much lower.
 

markd89

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Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
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1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Small update:

When I added the second (sequential) intercooler, I also upgraded the pump to a Rule 1100 gph bilge pump. This pump flows visibly much more than the smaller 401FC and requires about double the current.

The problem is I have managed to kill two of them. On one, I think I had some air in the system and it ran dry for a long time. The plastic impeller got worn/shaved a little and the pump started demanding more current and blowing fuses. I replaced the motor unit and managed to kill the second one as well. I'm not sure how but the motor doesn't spin when powered.

There are a couple of interesting take aways:

1. I was forced to limp home on a really hot day up a really long hill. I kept speed at 55mph, IAT was 220(!), and EGT was 1050 which is just within my comfort zone.

2. I replaced the pump with my old Rule 401FC - this one flows much less water than the 1100 GPH pump and is the same one recommended by Silicone Intakes/Frozen Boost. Not only has the pump not died (yet) but IATs seem to be improved by a few (<10 degrees). This is a nice surprise. Evidently in my setup, a slower water flow results in more heat transfer.

Before I saw the improved IATs, I did the homework on a serious intercooler pump for good flow and longevity. The one I found is the Meziere WP136S http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mez-wp136s which would have also required two -12 AN Male (O-ring) to 3/4 in. hose barbs http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mez-wp12034b Reading forums seemed to suggest this would last, comes with a good warranty, made in the USA but costs over $250 including the AN barbs.

For now, I'm staying with my cheapee slow bilge pump. If I it breaks, maybe I'll get the Meziere and undervolt it.
 
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nayr

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Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Location
Denver, CO
TDI
2014 Audi Q7
damn I was kinda hoping to mimic your intercooler setup, I am committed to cutting the nose up and installing a radiator up there.. maybe it will still work, im not really wanting to interfere with clearance.

thanks for the update.
 

markd89

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Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
damn I was kinda hoping to mimic your intercooler setup, I am committed to cutting the nose up and installing a radiator up there.. maybe it will still work, im not really wanting to interfere with clearance.
thanks for the update.
My setup is working nicely now. The two intercoolers were the key - one was not enough. Having the radiator up front with more flow as you suggested should be even better.

All that said, if I had to do it over again, I'd probably do the A2A setup mentioned a few messages up in thread. There's less components needed and less weight. I don't think with that setup you're giving up ground clearance as the thickness of the IC is probably less than other stuff already down there. You still need to figure out where to put your cooling radiators, though.

Good luck!
Mark
 

vanbcguy

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Feb 22, 2013
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
'93 Passat - AHU mTDI with GTB1756VK
I've been running one of the Bosch "Cobra" pumps for about 4 years now. They are way way way more reliable. If you have to buy 2 or more bait pumps the Bosch one would have been cheaper.
 

markd89

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Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
I've been running one of the Bosch "Cobra" pumps for about 4 years now. They are way way way more reliable. If you have to buy 2 or more bait pumps the Bosch one would have been cheaper.
Great info, thanks. I agree on how the cost works out too.
 

vanbcguy

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Feb 22, 2013
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Vancouver, BC
TDI
'93 Passat - AHU mTDI with GTB1756VK
I don't recall where I found it now but there is a spec sheet out there for the Bosch pumps showing the expected life span. Under typical mixed city / highway driving they should last around 100,000 km. There's a brushless version available too that has an even longer life expectancy but about 20% lower pumping volume.
 

JettaTDI

Active member
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Location
CT-CA
TDI
'02 Jetta, '03 Golf
The last time I tried to urban camp, I couldn't get to sleep due to the large amount of heat coming up from the engine area. It took hours to cool down.

I've also been looking for a way to reduce noise. I found this site: http://lobucrod.com/index.html Their product is like the home depot foil-bubble wrap sandwich, except the bubbles are smaller and more dense.

The appeal is that the stuff is lightweight, cheap, easy to apply and should block heat and sound.

I applied two layers covering the top of the engine bay reaching to behind the rear seats.

It does seem pretty good at blocking heat. Instead of being scalding hot, the rear area is warm-hot. That's an improvement.

The jury is out on the sound reduction. At first it seemed that there was no noticeable reduction in sound. Then I piled all my junk back into the bus and it did seem more quiet than before with all of the junk and without the insulation.

I do realize there's lots of wind noise and other noise also coming from the front. This thing is never going to sound like a Lexus.

Mark
Great thread. I'm planning on putting an AHU in my 87 Syncro. On your noise & heat situ above, I installed a Dynomat hoodliner on my 02 Jetta TDI. I didn't actually install it, I just cut out the shape of the engine compartment with a little overhang at the radiator area & fenders (where the hood contacts), put some mylar packing take on the edges. I lay it on the motor - reflective side down in the winter, & backing side down spring/summer (the backing is the part you would normally peel off to stick it to the hood) It's about 1.5" thick.

http://www.dynamat.com/automotive-and-transportation/automotive-restoration/hoodliner/

Do you have a recent photo of your eng & trans hydro mounts?
 

markd89

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Great thread. I'm planning on putting an AHU in my 87 Syncro. On your noise & heat situ above, I installed a Dynomat hoodliner on my 02 Jetta TDI. I didn't actually install it, I just cut out the shape of the engine compartment with a little overhang at the radiator area & fenders (where the hood contacts), put some mylar packing take on the edges. I lay it on the motor - reflective side down in the winter, & backing side down spring/summer (the backing is the part you would normally peel off to stick it to the hood) It's about 1.5" thick.

http://www.dynamat.com/automotive-and-transportation/automotive-restoration/hoodliner/

Do you have a recent photo of your eng & trans hydro mounts?
Thanks for the info.

All my images were nuked from my host a few months ago so the earlier messages are missing the pics. I re-uploaded a few.

The engine support runs under the crank pulley, not under the oil pan. This was done to give more ground clearance.

It attaches on the each side with bolts. There is an ear welded to the bar on left and right sides where the mounts sit. A hydraulic mount is used on the left and a "normal" mount is on the right. The right side ear is long and I was concerned that the weight of the engine levering on the long ear might cause some issue, so we added a second attachment of the bar to the frame to alleviate that.

Now in pictures...

Here we see the left (driver side) mount. This is the hydro mount, sitting on the steel ear, welded to the bar. In FWD TDI terms, this is the rear (turbo side) of the engine.



Here is the bottom of the right (passenger) side. Here you can see where the bar attaches to the frame as well as the extra attachment we added at the front of the ear.



Here's a side view of that same right size mount, but prior to the adding of the extra attachment point. This side has the normal mount.



Lastly, on the right side, here is a pic of what connects the top of the mount to the engine block.

 

markd89

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Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Minor updates... A2W system has been problem-free for a while. I changed the fuel filter. I plan on changing the trans oil (Swepco 201) this weekend.

I installed LED lights for front turn signal/side marker, brake lights and rear side markers. This was part of a hack to use less amps until I decided to be a better troubleshooter and figured out the cause of slow cranking and battery dying: broken ground strap between transaxle and body. doh!

I'm using a fair bit of oil, maybe 1 qt every 1000 miles. I'm guessing valve guides not turbo as I'm not finding pools of oil inside the intercoolers. My plan for now is to keep adding oil as needed and deal with this when the engine has to come out for some other reason.

Mark
 

markd89

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Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
It looks like my engine needs some help. I'm pretty sure I need a head and that I also need rings and as the engine in/out procedure is a PITA, I'm thinking best to have everything gone through.

I have been meticulous on maintenance, but I don't think the the previous 130K miles in the donor were as well maintained. I'm not sure what he used for oil. Two glow plugs are broken, two are seized, so who knows. I think it'd be best to do a complete rebuild or get a high quality long block. Hopefully that'll be the route to 300K trouble-free miles.

I'm looking for a recommendation for who can build me a really nice quality stock-ish longblock and/or recommendation of a good machine shop (So Cal) to check bores and do machining if necessary.

Current symptoms are here http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=5402139&postcount=19

I didn't know really where to post this, so I put a message in the A3/B4 section here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=5402379#post5402379

Any help much appreciated!

Mark
 

markward

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Location
Loxahatchee, Florida
TDI
82 Vanagon and 2011 JSW
Mark, I would think you could find a good used long block that would get you many miles of travel. I bought a 99 Golf wrecked in the rear a few years ago for $1200. Still runs and drives nice. They probably have come down in cost since then. Look for a used car, grab what you need and sell the rest to recover some of the money spent. Sorry you wore it out.
 

markd89

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Mark, I would think you could find a good used long block that would get you many miles of travel. I bought a 99 Golf wrecked in the rear a few years ago for $1200. Still runs and drives nice. They probably have come down in cost since then. Look for a used car, grab what you need and sell the rest to recover some of the money spent. Sorry you wore it out.
Thanks, Mark. It is an idea. A few years ago, I had a spare engine that I bought from a fellow TDIClub member. It had a known history and low miles. Unfortunately with moving, moving, moving, I couldn't keep it.

With the 1Z's now being 20 years old, I'm thinking it's getting less and less likely to find something with low miles. I'm thinking too, to "do it right" and then have something likely to run for 300K miles again. Still, if you hear/see of anything interesting, of course, I'd consider it.

Thanks again,
Mark
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Mark, after reading this Thread and your links, I'm really surprised with these revelations about your engine.

Do you think the Turbo may be dumping oil?
Have you done a compression test?
Oil in the catch-can doesn't seem to be too bad based on your comments.

My engine had 129k miles on it when installed in summer of 2012. I installed the Cluster from the donor. It now has 209k and "consumes" about 1/2 to 3/4 quart in 10k miles. Recent observations have led me to believe the less than correct angle of the oil drain on the Turbo may account for the majority of the oil loss (consumption). This has been debated numerous times and I just assumed mine was okay .. probably not so!

So, I'm suggesting that you consider looking at all possible probabilities that may be contributing to the oil consumption, smoke, rough idling, etc. An engine rebuild is a major undertaking. And, surely you wouldn't install that old Turbo on a very expensive rebuilt engine.

Trivia: My first TDI was a 2000 Jetta with 45k miles on it. Prior to it, I had been keeping old MK1s with the 1.6 diesel engines on the road from the early 80s. At first, I never bothered to read the owner's manual about my new to me TDI. So, the next 20k to 30k miles (cannot remember for sure), I used 15w-40 Dino oil ........ Yes, and seems a change or two, I used oil rated for a gasser engine! Then, I found this web site and was schooled... picked up my manual and checked it out. Now, fast forward to almost 370k miles, the engine performs just fine and consumes less than a quart of oil in 10k miles... everything is original on that engine. (my son owns it now)

Point is, I believe if the previous owner of your engine was using non-spec oil, it really wouldn't have damaged the rings, assuming he didn't let it stay in there for 25k miles. The Turbo would have been what suffered by non-spec oil, in my opinion. That's why I question as to whether or not the Turbo may be at least one of the culprits!
 
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markd89

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Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Hi Andy,

Thanks for your message. You're always very insightful.

Answers and more questions below:

Mark, after reading this Thread and your links, I'm really surprised with these revelations about your engine.

Do you think the Turbo may be dumping oil?
Have you done a compression test?
Oil in the catch-can doesn't seem to be too bad based on your comments.

--clip--
The Turbo would have been what suffered by non-spec oil, in my opinion. That's why I question as to whether or not the Turbo may be at least one of the culprits!
--clip--
I hadn't been suspecting the turbo. I felt it for play a few months ago and it was tight. Also, the intercoolers do not seem to be getting filled with oil.

Are there more checks I can do?

I haven't measured the catch can contents accurately, so I will start doing that. My guess is that it's probably 1/2 - 1 cup in 1000 miles.

My engine had 129k miles on it when installed in summer of 2012. I installed the Cluster from the donor. It now has 209k and "consumes" about 1/2 to 3/4 quart in 10k miles. Recent observations have led me to believe the less than correct angle of the oil drain on the Turbo may account for the majority of the oil loss (consumption). This has been debated numerous times and I just assumed mine was okay .. probably not so!

So, I'm suggesting that you consider looking at all possible probabilities that may be contributing to the oil consumption, smoke, rough idling, etc. An engine rebuild is a major undertaking. And, surely you wouldn't install that old Turbo on a very expensive rebuilt engine.
That is very interesting. I will shoot a picture of the oil drain today and post it. I agree that the rebuild is going to be a big project both in time and spendiness. If I can get another 60K (or 200K) miles with adding oil and doing timing belts, that would be peferred. Power is completely fine for what I need.

Another question:

I *do* have an oil issue, for sure and I really want to resolve that, hopefully without rebuilding. I will work on that.

Putting that aside, my friend Lou is a pro mechanic. He's not a TDI expert but he has worked on gassers and diesels for 30 years and he's very smart. He's also telling me to look at everything else before biting off on the rebuild.

I was describing to him the latest symptom -- when I started the bus that the engine ran rough like it was missing and smoked. The first time this happened it was pretty severe. A couple of days later it happened again but was less severe. Both times it cleared up by driving a bit.

His thinking was that this could be fuel and not oil. If an injector had some issue, maybe it was dripping while the engine was off, maybe one cylinder would be too rich or maybe the injector would fire too early or too late. What do you think?

I have a spare set of injectors (but with stock nozzles). I was thinking of swapping those in or running some diesel purge through the existing ones.

Thanks much, as always!
Mark
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Recently, I've re-sealed two IPs on ALH engines. Both of them would start okay but had very rough idle until the IP purged all the air due to the leaky seals. After re-sealing, they both started and idled smooth. One of the leaks was very obvious, the other one wasn't so obvious. The one with the obvious leak would not start if the car sit for two or more days without starting the engine......... the IP had to be primed to get it started as well as bled the steel lines!

Anyway, just something to think about while checking out the injectors.

I believe you may have a good mechanic ..
 

markd89

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Andy, thanks much for the info on the pumps. I will keep that in mind. We did previously replace the big pump head seal, but I don't remember if we did anything else.

I have more info.

Oil usage:

1. First, I forgot to answer Andy's question about compression testing: No, I haven't done that. I had wanted to when I got the donor car, but I found that two glow plugs were seized and two just spin (snapped off internally). Credit to the PO for that. I haven't looked into it, but maybe there's an adapter for the injector holes?

2. I took a picture of the turbo return line. It looks pretty good to me. There's a tiny dimple where it exits the turbo but it's tiny and seems to be a fairly straight shot.




3. While I was crawling around, I saw something interesting: A wet spot at about where the head meets the block on the exhaust side close to the transaxle. (picture below)

As the engine is tilted this way, I think it's basically the lowest spot and the oil is coming from somewhere else above. I only see a few tiny oil drops on the garage floor, but maybe the leak is worse when under boost. The only thing I could really think of is the valve cover gasket, so I ordered a new one and will put it in. It would be wonderful if it was something easy like that. Any other ideas?



Intermittent rough idle/Smoking:


This happened again today and it took a few minutes to smooth out which makes me think it is not something leaking into a cylinder when stopped. If it was, it would burn off in a few revolutions. So I'm deducing that it must be a fuel issue. I still plan on doing a diesel purge procedure and then if that doesn't help, swapping in my spare injectors.

I was also thinking about checking injector balance in VCDS next time it happens and see if that has a clue.

I captured todays event on video. This is the mild version with less smoke and less severe shaking. The smoke didn't come out very well in the video. Normal idle for this tune is 1000 rpms and very smooth. http://realityisreality.com/shakes-and-smoke.mp4

Any and all advice much appreciated!

Mark
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Yeah, you need to look into all those things you mentioned before making a commitment to do a rebuild.

I let my Van sit parked from late last fall until about a week ago. Although I did fire it up several times, last week when started, it smoked a lot for about 15 or 20 minutes just idling. And, for about a minute it was stumbling a bit. Now, after driving it everyday for the last 8 or 9 days, far less smoking and no rough idling when first fired up. ScanGauge says I have two bad GPs which could contribute to the smoke and some stumbling.

So, if your engine is similar to the video every time you start it, it's time to dig in and commence the process of elimination. I'd start with the GPs.

Considering you need to get those GPs out, you might ought to look at options short of pulling the head. I do believe if those GPs were replaced, the smoking might clear-up a bit and may help with the rough idling. But, you do need to see what VCDS tells you.
 

markd89

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Yeah, you need to look into all those things you mentioned before making a commitment to do a rebuild.

I let my Van sit parked from late last fall until about a week ago. Although I did fire it up several times, last week when started, it smoked a lot for about 15 or 20 minutes just idling. And, for about a minute it was stumbling a bit. Now, after driving it everyday for the last 8 or 9 days, far less smoking and no rough idling when first fired up. ScanGauge says I have two bad GPs which could contribute to the smoke and some stumbling.

So, if your engine is similar to the video every time you start it, it's time to dig in and commence the process of elimination. I'd start with the GPs.

Considering you need to get those GPs out, you might ought to look at options short of pulling the head. I do believe if those GPs were replaced, the smoking might clear-up a bit and may help with the rough idling. But, you do need to see what VCDS tells you.
Thanks Andy!

My bus is only smoking like that and running rough every few starts. Most starts are easy and the idle smooth like it should be.

It has always bugged me that the GPs are not working, but I know it's not related to this issue. I've had the GP fuse pulled for a long time. There are many downsides to living in California (that would be a long rant), but the one upside is the weather. I think the coldest it has got is maybe 50 *F and the bus has no problem firing up without glow plug help.

I'll post back with what I find. If you think of more, please let me know. It's much appreciated!

Mark
 

1.9ZOOK

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Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Location
Downstream of a Volcano
TDI
ALH Samurai
"3. While I was crawling around, I saw something interesting: A wet spot at about where the head meets the block on the exhaust side close to the transaxle. (picture below) "

Could it be the vacuum pump leaking?
 

mogly

Veteran Member
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Sarnia, ON, Canada
TDI
MKIV TDI + B5.5V AVF/01E
Thanks Andy!

My bus is only smoking like that and running rough every few starts. Most starts are easy and the idle smooth like it should be.


I'll post back with what I find. If you think of more, please let me know. It's much appreciated!

Mark

I'm wondering about the possibility of a small amount of movement at the crank sprocket? I know this is far more common on AAZs but I have seen it on the first gen TDIs. The symptoms you describe sound almost the same. Some normal start ups while others it almost seems like a different engine altogether.
 

markd89

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Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
on oil consumption:

1.9ZOOK, thanks for the idea on the vacuum pump. It's going to be really hard to get to, due to the nature of the swap. I'll get in there tomorrow, with the borescope if I have to. and take a look.

on intermittent smoke/shake at startup.

mogly, thanks for your suggestion. On this on problem, I am getting more sure it is fuel related. I checked injector balance when it was misbehaving today and saw weird numbers.

I might be wrong, but I think it was 2.99 2.99 2.99 which I think means extra fuel was being added.

Later in the day, I made a point to note the numbers accurately. At this time it was running just a little rough:

-2.59 -.24 -0.05 then I revved it and let it settle back to idle and got
-0.2 1.48 0.24

a few minutes of driving later and much more normal:
0.71 0.49 0.26

I'm thinking this is pump related, but to your point, the pump is driven off the crank. If it was flopping around, the pump timing would be off and the computer might be getting confused. I did some googling and the AAZ threads seem to suggest that TDI crank setup is the best fix for the AAZ. Conversely, seems like this shouldn't be the issue on mine.
 
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