1999 Jetta TDI won't start

[dieselnuts]

I have disconnected the supply line from the fuel filter and connected a squeeze bottle and got the fuel to the injectors. I tried starting it and it didn't start. Done this several times and no luck getting it to run. I did get a response with silicone but being alone I couldn't spray and turn the key at the same time. I pulled the glow plugs wires and checked for 12v with a test light and didn't get any light. Do the glow lights get 12v+? Is there a fuse?

 

[wonneber]

I have disconnected the supply line from the fuel filter and connected a squeeze bottle and got the fuel to the injectors. I tried starting it and it didn't start. Done this several times and no luck getting it to run. I did get a response with silicone but being alone I couldn't spray and turn the key at the same time. I pulled the glow plugs wires and checked for 12v with a test light and didn't get any light. Do the glow lights get 12v+? Is there a fuse?

When you turn the ignition on does the glow plug light com on?
If you unplug the coolant temp sensor and turn the key on the light should stay on for 30 (or so) seconds.
You should get 12 volts to the glow plugs.
Did you check the anti shutter valve if its stuck closed?
Last, crack the injector lines loose at the injectors and crank the engine for a second or two.
You should get some fuel spitting out from each line.
'response with silicone' ??
You used spray silicone in the intake?
Never heard of using it, but do not use either to try to start it.
It can blow the engine.

Rich W.

 

[steve6]

on top of the battery is fuse for glow plugs.

make sure the glow plug is coming on - if not could be relay 109 (search for more info)

can you provide background on what happened to start all this? have you checked the timing belt?

Its been warm enough that your car should start without glow plugs, but if they are not working could be relay 109. Don't spray too much quick start into these engines, its not liked.

 

[dieselnuts]

When you turn the ignition on does the glow plug light com on?
If you unplug the coolant temp sensor and turn the key on the light should stay on for 30 (or so) seconds.
You should get 12 volts to the glow plugs.
Did you check the anti shutter valve if its stuck closed?
Last, crack the injector lines loose at the injectors and crank the engine for a second or two.
You should get some fuel spitting out from each line.
'response with silicone' ??
You used spray silicone in the intake?
Never heard of using it, but do not use either to try to start it.
It can blow the engine.

Rich W.

glow plug light comes on.
I'll look for the coolant temp sensor and try it.
Anti shutter is the valve just before the EGR? It is opened,
I have cracked the injector lines many times and I get fuel, even removed the glow plugs and cranked it and looks like fuel vapours coming out the holes.
The guy I bought it from said he could get it to run on silicone only,
but he had a helper to spray while he cranked and it would run so I tried it alone after many time trying on fuel without success and it seemed to want to run
I won't use either.
While the glow plugs were out I put 12v to them and they did not heat up. I thought I had burned the out. Glad to know they take 12v. The seller told me they were new and they look it. .

 

[dieselnuts]

on top of the battery is fuse for glow plugs.

make sure the glow plug is coming on - if not could be relay 109 (search for more info)

can you provide background on what happened to start all this? have you checked the timing belt?

Its been warm enough that your car should start without glow plugs, but if they are not working could be relay 109. Don't spray too much quick start into these engines, its not liked.

I will check the fuse.
I found relay 109 under the dash.
I put 12v to the glow plugs and they didn't warm up. also I put a test light to the wiring harness, turned the key and got no light.
I bought the car from a guy who gave up on it. Told me he ran out of fuel and never could get it to run again. I do wonder if the timing is right but I don't know how to check it. The belt is in one piece if that is what you mean.

 

[stamp11127]

Your last sentence is your clue...

Whenever you get a "basket case" or when someone else gives up, always go back to basics & go back over everything the previous owner has told you about and go over things they haven't told you about.

Glow plugs - I always check them with a dmm. Hopefully someone will chime in with the specified range of resistance. If they test "infinite" you can assume they are shot. Next test for power to them, as you have already done.

If you pull the gp's I would suggest taking compression readings. It may be an ether baby now if it has been shot with a few cans trying to start it.

And the kicker will be something stupid - that no one has seen but has been looking at it the whole time.

 

[UhOh]

glow plug light comes on.
I'll look for the coolant temp sensor and try it.
Anti shutter is the valve just before the EGR? It is opened,
I have cracked the injector lines many times and I get fuel, even removed the glow plugs and cranked it and looks like fuel vapours coming out the holes.
The guy I bought it from said he could get it to run on silicone only,
but he had a helper to spray while he cranked and it would run so I tried it alone after many time trying on fuel without success and it seemed to want to run
I won't use either.
While the glow plugs were out I put 12v to them and they did not heat up. I thought I had burned the out. Glad to know they take 12v. The seller told me they were new and they look it. .

Make sure the ASV is staying open.

That you get fuel from the injector lines doesn't mean that you're getting sufficient fuel. The fuel should pretty much shoot out. And speaking of fuel, do we know that it's any good?

Spraying crap into one of these engines is W-R-O-N-G! This means nothing, other than some the folks doing it had no clue what they were doing. One can make a dead frog's heart beat, that don't mean the frog was alive. The engine PROCESS ignited this foreign material, I doubt that the engine actually RAN.

If you put 12v to the GPs and they didn't heat up (in a couple of seconds) then they're likely bad. Resistance is in the fractions of an ohm (0.3 or so?); perhaps more importantly is that they are ALL pretty much the same (one may show up as 0.6 ohms, but that's TWICE as bad and say another one that's 0.3 ohms). At this point I doubt that GPs are your problem (if it's cold out, yes, it'll result in a struggled start, but only if it's extremely cold would you encounter a no-start).

If you have good fuel and the ASV isn't blocking then it's pretty much an issue of timing. The PO's actions would tend to suggest that one would be better off, as suggested here, to evaluate this engine as a total unknown- start with a compression test and verify that the cam, crank and IP all index (not a botched timing belt job).

 

[wonneber]

glow plug light comes on.
I'll look for the coolant temp sensor and try it.
Anti shutter is the valve just before the EGR? It is opened,
I have cracked the injector lines many times and I get fuel, even removed the glow plugs and cranked it and looks like fuel vapours coming out the holes.
The guy I bought it from said he could get it to run on silicone only,
but he had a helper to spray while he cranked and it would run so I tried it alone after many time trying on fuel without success and it seemed to want to run
I won't use either.
While the glow plugs were out I put 12v to them and they did not heat up. I thought I had burned the out. Glad to know they take 12v. The seller told me they were new and they look it. .

I wonder if when it ran out of fuel it really had water in the lines or water got in somewhere along the way.
The only other thing I can think of is if the injection timing jumped.
You can take the plastic top cover off to see the timing belt.
You would have to crank the engine with a ratchet on the crank pulley.
Only turn it from there, not the cam or pump, and only in a tightening direction.
Use a light to see if there's fuzz in there or you see parts of the belt teeth missing.
Loose belt would not be good either, no slop in it.

Rich W.

 

[UhOh]

If it's a 5spd you can put it in gear and push it to rotate the engine.

 

[dieselnuts]

Today I parked on a hill facing down so the tank was higher then the engine and proceeded to purge the pump with my Mity-Vac pump thru the injector pump return to the fuel filter line. After vacuuming say 1/2 gallon of fuel and the air still coming out of the filter into the clear fuel line even tho it would pour out of the filter gravity feed on it's own I replaced the filter with a new one and I think that helped. Now I have a 1/4" air bubble. when I crank the air goes into the IP then finds its way back.

I cracked the nuts on the injectors and cranked it and got fuel all over including all the way to the grill nest time i put a towel over them to kind of keep things clean. then I tighten them up and still no start.

I blocked the ASV with a screwdriver just to be sure it stayed opened.

I have a friend coming over and I'm going to slow tow it and check the timing belt for damage.

I have to remove the valve cover to make sure the #1 cly valves are closed and line up the flywheel mark so I can check the timing right? Or is there another way?

My glow plug harness has power when I turn the key. Checked with a test light. My glow plugs read on a dmm 1.3 when I set it on 200oms setting and 003 on the 2000 setting and 0.00 on the 20k setting.

 

[Nevada_TDI]

I agree with the idea of going back to timing before you crank on it anymore. It may have jumped a tooth, but if it jumps one more you may have damage in the head.

 

[dieselnuts]

I agree with the idea of going back to timing before you crank on it anymore. It may have jumped a tooth, but if it jumps one more you may have damage in the head.

I think you are right. I took someones else advise and towed it. At first it would put out a lot of smoke then it would catch a little now and then. Then it ran for a couple of seconds, the RPMs went to 2000 and stopped. That was it. Locked up lost a lot of oil and the belt is shot. I did look at the belt before I towed it and it looked good but like you said it was probably off a tooth. I'm not sure what I'm going to do next.

 

[dieselnuts]

Can someone give me an idea what it will cost to fix it if I do the work?

 

[Dodoma]

If you have it pushed at high speed and then geared, it may start.

 

[whitedog]

If you have it pushed at high speed and then geared, it may start.

Did you read his last post where it says that the belt is shot?

 

[wonneber]

Belt shot

I think you are right. I took someones else advise and towed it. At first it would put out a lot of smoke then it would catch a little now and then. Then it ran for a couple of seconds, the RPMs went to 2000 and stopped. That was it. Locked up lost a lot of oil and the belt is shot. I did look at the belt before I towed it and it looked good but like you said it was probably off a tooth. I'm not sure what I'm going to do next.

Please define 'the belt is shot'
Broken, missing a few teeth, loose??

Rich W.

 

[dieselnuts]

It still goes all the way around and is tight but it is now 1/2 wide instead of full width. The engine is locked up.

 

[turbocharged798]

Time to pull the head and have a valve job done. They are most likely damaged.

 

[wonneber]

It still goes all the way around and is tight but it is now 1/2 wide instead of full width. The engine is locked up.

OK
Maybe take the valve cover off and see if any lifters are not touching the cam.
If you can't turn the engine forward, maybe slowly backwards.
Could take the cam off if you cut the belt. Its going to need changing anyway
Just DON'T crank the engine with the starter. Might make things worse.
I wondering if one cylinder has oil in it from a turbo seal leak.
Running out of simple ideas.
Taking the head off would be the next step.

Rich W.

 

[dieselnuts]

I was thinking of taking the head off. Do you think the bottom end would survive something like that when it goes out of timing?

 

[whitedog]

It usually does. As long as you don't throw another timing belt on it without fixing the damaged valves and they break off 10,000 miles later, the bottom end will be fine.

 

[dieselnuts]

I'm glad to hear that. I was thinking the lower end bearings might take a beating. What happens, a valve hits a piston and that is what locks things up?

 

[Schoust]

Pm sent.

 

[whitedog]

Can you rotate the engine backwards? You should be able to rotate the engine backwards. If you can't turn it either way, then you have deeper problems.

 

[dieselnuts]

First chance I have I'll try and see if it turns backwards.

 

[dieselnuts]

Can you rotate the engine backwards? You should be able to rotate the engine backwards. If you can't turn it either way, then you have deeper problems.

I got the engine to turn both ways. At first it wouldn't go, I used a cheater pipe but now it turns free both ways. I think a chunk of belt got lodged in between the belt and a pulley locking things up. So I don't think it has a bad valve. I don't know where all the oil went, the dipstick now shows none, maybe front seal or rear seal.

 

[wonneber]

Where's theoil

I got the engine to turn both ways. At first it wouldn't go, I used a cheater pipe but now it turns free both ways. I think a chunk of belt got lodged in between the belt and a pulley locking things up. So I don't think it has a bad valve. I don't know where all the oil went, the dipstick now shows none, maybe front seal or rear seal.

If the seal in the turbo went bad it could dump it into the boost tube to the intercooler. (turbo's shot)
It would get pushed into the engine and if enough gets in a cylinder it locks the engine from turning forward.
The intercooler full of oil usually confirms the turbo seal.

I would not just put a belt on until I know why it shredded the way your did.
Bad roller or tensioner in there maybe.

You will need the specialty tools to change the belt.
There's a lock pin for the injector pump.
Another lock for the camshaft.
Tool for turning the belt tensioner.
Few other tools also to make it easier.

If you took the head off to look at the pistons you would see if there's a valve imprint on the top of the piston.
You would need the gaskets seals and head bolts at this point.
(Starting to get into $ if it did hit)

Rich W.

 

[UhOh]

Has anyone been able to get a borescope to show piston tops?

 

[dieselnuts]

I manage to remove the WWF reservoir to get to the inter-cooler hose but I still need to remove the headlight. I got the 2 bolts on top still cant get it out is there more on the bottom? I got a big piece of timing belt lodged in behind the belt tensioner roller. The rubber shut hose going from the inter-cooler to shutoff valve is coated pretty good with oil is that normal? I like to do a compression test maybe I won't have to take the head off does that sound right?

 

[dieselnuts]

Does the bumper have to come out to get the headlight out?