1989 944 s2 TDI BHW swap!!!

tims944

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
montreal quebec
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI, 2006 mk5 tdi-SOLD 1989 944 s2 BHW swapped
So i actually have some more free time ish while at work currently fill in Foreman leaves some build progress time to post, just need to bring my usb with pictures.

I will try and go a little bit more in depth from begining to current state for those interested and try not to be repetive or too baddly.
 

tims944

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
montreal quebec
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI, 2006 mk5 tdi-SOLD 1989 944 s2 BHW swapped
So for those unaware.
i am building a 1989 944 TDI.

the donor 944 is a 1989 4 cyl 3.0 5 speed. with 10 speaker option! WO/LSD but nice 4 piston brakes F & R. Removeable sunroof, power locks (AC) and a spanky body style i love.


The donor drivetrain is from a 2004 passat tdi 2.0L BHW/ w 4 speed auto?(maybe 5 speed dont even know...)

i picked up the 944 s2 for 750 $(secrets out..)
and i paid 700$ for the passat.

The s2, was in pieces and well worth way more than what i paid but was a struggle and hassle to acquire and than properly register, i wont get into it because its a waste of time.

The passat i picked up in toronto, and drove home all of 600km sight unseen, which to some might have been risky since it seems 9/10 of the auto boxes are about to go, or already have,(lost reverse or no movement). i drove home with some estethic issues but otherwise none. 356k km and drove like a dream with working cruise control !

This was.. February 2019. No part of the swap had taken physical form just theoretical at this time.

I brought the car into my shop

i hand built a 28x20 Shop in backyard with 13' ceiling!
and installed a 9k Lb Giro lift(all hydraulic lift)
Yes this is my castle! i work full time as a mechanic for the canadian postal service, been about 4.5 years with them and did 5+ years before there at a private business.

so i brought it into my shop and apart from some oil leaks coolant sweats and what not the car was actually fairly clean drivetrain wise, body wasnt too pretty but i couldnt care less for body stuff.

so i checked a few things took an inventory of useable parts and which ones i would just toss vs sell.

the car than sat on the side of my yard for a while until its fate was decided and progress made.
 

tims944

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
montreal quebec
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI, 2006 mk5 tdi-SOLD 1989 944 s2 BHW swapped
So.
a 944 diesel... does it exist, has it been tried and abandoned, has it been decided it cant be done..
I did a lot of reading and googleing and forum searching.
I came up sort of short, i must have found a dozen threads with the desire and fire saying they were doing a tdi 944. or a diesel 944 etc..
Every single one of them was 5-15 years old.. and had no updates since maybe 12 months into the first thread.
The only build i actually found to be successful and running was a swedish(if not there, another country arround there) had swapped a 1.6(might be off) volvo diesel engine into his 924. Now he went about this a fairly smart way but still finished with cutting a pretty big hole in the hood.. and i think top end of the motor was say 80hp but decent torque, his build wasnt very well posted except some pictures of his work and such, there might be more but not that i could understand...language barrier.
So with that being the results. Maybe this isnt buildable, well at least with a realistic budget vs DEEEEP DEEEP Pockets.
So i started doing more calculations to way options.
The 944 engine is big, long, tall, heavy and expensive
Most Tdi's (4 cyls) are short, tall avg weight-> Heavy, and Cheap..
How much space do you really need to install one. and because of its design will it fit without monsterous modifications to engine bay, driveline, wiring.
Because the design of the BHW engine(ill skip past the alh, bew,brm, etc options)
The Vacuum/Fuel pump sits pretty deep behind the back of the block along with the water outlet.
This is actualyl where a lot of calculating was needed.
the 944 engine sits in a decent space in the engine bay and leaves ample space between the firewall and the cylinder head. this is mainly to accomadate the decent sized bellhousing and refference sensor bracket on top of the motor.
Now having pre planned my base design for a bellhousing i had a general idea of how big and deep it would need to be to properly house a flywheel clutch PP and TOB.
the issue being at what distance can i place the engine and still have proper engagement between the Rear mounted Transaxle and the pilot bearing.
For a quick info lesson.
the 924/944/968 & 928 front engined fleet of Porsche vehicles all run a rear transaxle. meaning the transmission and differential are rear mounted and the engine front mounted. the 2 are connected by a Torque Tube. Basically a driveshaft but solid and mounted on a few bearings inside a casing.

This is a basic 944 torque tube. there are one or two changes over the year but irellevant to this.
So this TT is from tip to tip about 72".
This means that between the engine and transaxle i can only theoretically have a max seperation of about 6' if i want to keep engagement proper.
Now the transaxle side is solid and has zero adjustment, the TT and input shaft are held together with a splined coupler which is tightened in place by 2 bolts on the ends of the coupler. this locks the connection tight and leaves no room for adjustment(maybe 1-2mm sliding each way but nothing big.
So the rear transaxle side cant really be adjusted
 

tims944

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
montreal quebec
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI, 2006 mk5 tdi-SOLD 1989 944 s2 BHW swapped
So the rear is very limited in terms of how it is mounted(there is adjustment but ill get to that after)

the with torque tube installed and properly engaged in the transmission it leaves "X" amount of space to fit the bellhousing and engine and clear the firewall.

After having calculated "X" ( i use x because i have notes somewhere but they arent very detailed since i did a lot of this on the spot and worked it out vs documented) i now knew the space i had between the flange on the TT(where it bolts to the 944 bellhousing) and the tip of the driveshaft(for pilot bearing engagement).


Lets just say its about 5.5"

This means i had to calculate and make it so the engine block could fit a bellhousing all of the needed clutch components and than be able to mate it to the TT.

This is where i chose to use a Longitudinal DVZ 2.8L gearbox.


well by use i mean i had it, i cut it up and well turned it into a bellhousing.

I dismantled most of it, and than got creative with a sawzall/ angle grinder, die grinder hacksew and all kinds!

there wasnt much play room once calculated but it was going to work,

i believe the pilot bearing i fit into the crank was the stock EURO BGW(manual bhw equivalent- or 1.8) needle bearing style pilot. Which if not mistaken was probably like 11-13mm deep. so i installed it with full depth(flush with end of crank)

Test fitted this multiple times once the basic bellhousing was made. i was able to get full depth.

that meant just to make sure i could use my slave/starter etc afterwards

The base of the bellhousing was the remnants of the DVZ case, this meant i could use the stock bhw starter which is a beefier version of the 1.8 i believe, which mounts along the engine nut bellhousing. This is a much easier way to do this, all the guys running the 02J modded bellhousings man... why would you want to cut up or bang up your tunnel/fireall... sad sad day...

I than after measurements welded on a 1/4" 6036t6 or equivalent sheet of aluminum. with sides to box it in and the whole 9 yards.

The biggest plus to using a Longitudinal bellhousing as base! the (oem) input bearing. well this big ass bearing unfortunately is an open bearing so its semi useless but.. the principle is good, a lot of people have an issue with allignment or such to properly allign clutch pilot bearing etc, since the 944 TT is just basically a long input shaft and the size is 99.99% exact match to the input shaft of the dvz, it slides right into that hole, making calculations and mounting a easier base.

Another worry of mine was the TT.. will it have a lot of vibrations and such because the TDI 's nature. well on the stock TT the closest bearing to the clutch is say 12"(from memory) which (for later 944s actually created an issue, but thats another day) so i thought wouldnt it be great to utilize this well placed bearing(spot) and help reinforce the driveshaft. of course the stock input bearing is something like 58mmx30mm or something. which is after research a 1 off bearing apart from a 100$ chinese (sealed version)bearing..

Lucky for me, my neighbor and friend who runs a machine shop and has made me numerous parts in the past was more than willing to now make me a modified version of a delrin part id already had made.

so instead i used a 58x35? bearing and used a delrin insert(same design for the rebuilt torque tubes i offer) to snuggly fit to the driveshaft!

and tada a nice solid addition to the system was added and it helps keep properly allignemnt. This i do not have pictures of currently as i actually only now have the proper parts and for testing and fitment(was and currently have the original Input bearing installed)

Than it was a simple matter of calculating the proper depth and position for the Stock 944(yup you read that right-oem off the shelf parts :) Slave cylinder mounting. and to drill./ Time-Sert the proper and needed holes.

The only other calculation which after measuring and such i realized was in order to actually use the stock slave and with minimal mods was that i needed to clock the TT flange so that it could fit and the slave bolt up without needing to modify those, and since when done properly cutting and rewelding it would cause no damage to the casing or issue with future rebuilding it was the smartest way.

so i now know i can mate the 3 together Engine ->TT<-Transaxle


But how will this look and or fit in the engine bay. will it hit will it rub..


So once i managed to have the bellhousing completed enough to bolt the 3 together i got to work


i very soon found out, unless i want the fuel pump eating away at the AC Lines( i hope to one day use) i need to push the whole assembly forward...

Well this can be done but there is only so much room at the back.

Now..

During all these tests the stock 944 gearbox was used as no need to make a lot of complications trying to allign 3 or 4 new things vs having a base to work off of.

when installed stock the 944 transmission has a upper crossmember that it hangs off of.
this does give it a bit of swing left to run but next to none front to back. and for good reason as the spare tire hole is about 1-2" behind it and well the TT would need to move the entire engine to go forward... mind you also back.

So i got a little creative and started with simply cutting 2 1/8" steel plates which i installed between the gearbox mount bracket and the mount itself in turn just pushing the gearbox forward about 1/4" and the mount not moving

Bam it actually worked pretty well !

Now the only issue with this was the 944 TT im working with has a stock design of sort of dog ears. which in the instance of an accident are there to prevent the system from sliding too far forward or too far backwards. Well these needed to be trimmed as the freeplay window i needed wasnt within there limits, so i trimmed off a section of the points so i could slide it where i needed. No worries there.

so now that the transmission was at or close to its limit for forward movement i needed to compare and see how the engine adjusted.

Well i now have some clearance, maybe not quite as much as i wanted but itll have to do. I also realized the clearance on the firewall really depends on the height the engine is resting at.(later noticing i had it quite high. so once lowered ended up with closer to 7/16-9/16" of space much better !
 

tims944

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
montreal quebec
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI, 2006 mk5 tdi-SOLD 1989 944 s2 BHW swapped
This now meant i can work out actually mounting the engine.

Now as i previously talked about the TDI is tall, and with the front mounted sump... the stock 944 crossmember would never have worked which wasnt a do or die. it was a make something that works !

So i chopped welded and fabbed up a nice 3 piece crossmember. now i actually did the sides of the crossmember first as i hadnt confirmed or finalized how i planned to mount the steering rack and or the mounts even.

once the sides were done i started to play with measurements and see how much space i had and well go from there,

The biggest challenge was wanting to NOT CUT INTO THE HOOD!!
This isnt an old Muscle Car with a blower, its hopefully going to be my drive it everyday TDi 944 that gets ridiculous miles on a tank of fuel.

So this means go low..

Trying to support an engine from the top and close the hood soon became a fun task to acomplish. well it didnt work, so i used my transmission jack to simply raise or lower the motor. With the hood closed i lowered the engine enough so that i had clearance everywhere not a lot but enough that if this thing twisted enough it shouldnt destroy anything.

From there it was a matter of centering the engine as best i could and fabricating some mounts and brackets.

Now with the engine sitting how it currently was it left me options for where to bolt it up and where to sit the mounts.

Since having the Stock brackets from the bhw(basically 1.8t Longitudinal mounts) i was able to test fit with the stock bhw liquid filled mounts.

Well the mounts are nice, the brackets are HUGE! might as well toss those in your scrap pile and claim the aluminum(might even be cast)

I soon found out the mounts should be perfect for fitment but need to make brackets

so in deciding to use the stock bhw mounts, fitting them on top(first option) of the new subframe brackets would mean they would be really high.. not really liking the idea and would be much closer to turbo on passenger side and probably cause issues on driver side for steering.

So i chose to mount them behind the supports with Zero worry of improper support. I made nice supports probabyl out of 3/16" steel plate based off my already steel subframe.


From there it was just a matter of keeping the proper angle and spacing so it wasnt rubbing or hitting anywhere and nice space for torque pulls !

brackets were fab'd up, tacked and installed. lower trans mount and bam engine fit(doesnt hit firewall BIG CONCERN!)

not to resupport and weld up.

Because the mounts were a bit further back, My engine side mounting was actually more in the middle of the block vs further up which ive now seen some of the 1.8t guys or the 07k swap guys do, mainly because i see they try to use the stock crossmember and well they use its mounting spots.


With it welded up i could now work on my steering setup because what good is doing burnouts or driving if you cant turn the wheel without it binding or locking.

I as already mentioned chose to use a 924 manual steering rack.
Main benefits, Steel frame(easier to adapt for mounting)
cheap. much smaller than the 944 manual rack and No oil leak...
Seeing as this car should be equal weight or lighter by the end of everything it was a worthy sacrifice.

I had already planned to make a joining beam for the crossmember the question was just how far out would i need it to be for roughly the same position as stock vs just dropped

Ya Ya.. i know theres proper angles and sciencey laws well i aint no scientist. but if theres millions of people offroading and doing what not with jacked up trucks cars im sure most of them adapt to make it work.

Which is what i did, i sourced the proper tie rods, sort of developed but stole some aftermarket bump steer tie rods from a Nissan,(am currently designing my own bump steer stud, as i want more drop to properly allign it) to make up for the probably like 2-3" drop i had to put on the rack.

The car actuallty drives pretty decent considering( thats with a nice lifted diesel ride height :) mind you, but i dont want to make friends with speed bumps.)
I accomodated my ride height with some nice stiff oem suspension !

So the steering works the engine fits who cares about the rest !

I did document a decent amount of the other work already but i will try and update more with pictures and such for better reference.
 

tims944

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
montreal quebec
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI, 2006 mk5 tdi-SOLD 1989 944 s2 BHW swapped
For a general intro/reff list here is what my car currently has for anyone considering

1989 944 s2.

2.0l 04 Passat BHW Engine Rebuilt
-Balance Shaft Delete, running BRM chain & Pump
-BRM Intake w/Custom EGR Delete-> ASV pipe.
-Audi BRD Freshly Rebuilt BV43 Turbo(in Germany)
-Custom 2.25" Downpipe-Decat-Stock 944 muffler
- Luk 23lb 1.8T SMF paired with Luk(Modified or upgraded PP)
- Secret 228mm 23 spline Clutch disk--...( i do have a stock 944 one i will beef up if my current one doesnt hold up, but im hopeful :)
- DELETED, STEERING PUMP, CLUTCH FAN, AC :( (FOR NOW)

- Stock 944 s2 Radiator
- Stock 944 NA(not s2/turbo) coolant reservoir
- BRM Mk5 rear coolant outlet
-ALh? Thermostat housing(honestly dont remember which model it is, i have like 6 different ones i trialed with but this one worked best.)
-EVGUY-TDIconversions Oil cooler Blockoff/adaptor plate
- Custom(Devin Lyons) Oil Filter Relocate Lines & Block
- Stock 944 cooling fans
- 924 Manual Steering Rack

- Audi 2.0L TDi 01X HCF 6 speed Gearbox(another 01e on the shelf for future maybe.)
- EMPI axles (Stock-Various models :p)
- 108mm Trans side flanges with 33 spline 108mm joints
-100mm Wheel flange with 33 spline 100mm joints
- Custom 6 speed shifter linkage

- 968 Stock Abs Module/Relay + (if needed) box for converting speedo

- 26.8mm front sway bar(will be switch out for a weltmeister when i can pick it up...Damn COVID!!)
- Stock 944 T intercooler
-Front m030 double adjustable koni's with 944 Turbo Cup springs & RE camber plates
-Rear Bilstein Rothmans Adjustable Coilovers W/150lb springs & Stock 24mm TB's
-16" BBS RS 3 piece 16x 8 fronts & 16x9.5 rears riding on 245/50/16's on all 4 :)

Theres probably some more stuff people are curious of but this is what comes to mind.
 
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tims944

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
montreal quebec
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI, 2006 mk5 tdi-SOLD 1989 944 s2 BHW swapped
Assuming i can, tomorrow i will upload some pictures into past posts, if not, i will upload pictures and give details on each one to help identify whats being displayed and what not.

Also... Did the pictures change? now when uploaded theres just a URL no thumbnail size copy or paste...

thanks Guys,

I am not usually one for this type of stuff but honestly am motivated a lot by reading other peoples builds and support and just good ol fashioned congrats to people or people who have already told me good job !

so thanks

Tim.
 

tims944

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
montreal quebec
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI, 2006 mk5 tdi-SOLD 1989 944 s2 BHW swapped
Hey folks, i know i havent posted on this in a while but small update or two.

Fully functioning speedometer now working !
suspensin/steering is all about dialed in.

A question for the cluster or programming gurus.\

I had talked to the guy who did my ecm tune and he basically left me hanging.

Is there any way to tune/code out the abs/brake lamp out of the cluster, obviously i dont have these, well i do but the porsche setup not the VW.

its the most annoying thing in the world on the cluster...

this is a b5.5 passat 2004 tdi cluster for refference,

i am willing to pay someone for cluster work, as i would also like the odometer reset to basically 0, since the 357k km it shows isnt accurate to my build hah

thanks and until next time!
 

tims944

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
montreal quebec
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI, 2006 mk5 tdi-SOLD 1989 944 s2 BHW swapped
cluster is Fixed and on its way back to me, shout out to matthew litke, of litke clusters

awesome work, more than fair prices. cant wait to have her back and installed.
 

jhax

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2012
Location
Golden, CO
TDI
96 Passat B4V, ALH engine out of a 2002 Jetta, some IE Rods and ASV Pistons. Nothing drivable yet though
cluster is Fixed and on its way back to me, shout out to matthew litke, of litke clusters

awesome work, more than fair prices. cant wait to have her back and installed.
I just got my mk3 cluster back from Matt, he reset the odometer to 0 for my swap, fixed some bad solder joints and even gave me a small package of gummy bears. Ill definitely use him again in the future.
 

tims944

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
montreal quebec
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI, 2006 mk5 tdi-SOLD 1989 944 s2 BHW swapped
he set to 0, deleted or disabled the airbags. brake/abs light and warning and immo light.

itll be nice to have a cluster with no warnnings for a while hah,
 

tims944

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
montreal quebec
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI, 2006 mk5 tdi-SOLD 1989 944 s2 BHW swapped
Ask and you shall receive, yes the cluster fab work is ugly, its not finished and is missing the glass.

 

tims944

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
montreal quebec
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI, 2006 mk5 tdi-SOLD 1989 944 s2 BHW swapped
This is also before i sent out my cluster to matt. waiting for it back, ill upload a video once the install is back and car is cleaned up on the inside.
 

tims944

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
montreal quebec
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI, 2006 mk5 tdi-SOLD 1989 944 s2 BHW swapped
I can happily update, since my speedo, and cluster have been refreshed, most of allignment self sorted(pending appt to properly set it up)

the car now has 8km newly registered on her :) boost and smiles all along. I will however probably splurge down the road on a proper tune as i had someone semi local make me one, and the thing smokes like nobodys business,... its not enjoyable starting your car and people cant breath arround you.. :p oh well

Happy Easter folks
 

tims944

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
montreal quebec
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI, 2006 mk5 tdi-SOLD 1989 944 s2 BHW swapped
I am, and its not black... it puffs blue on startup... i mean i guess it could be partially from the rings not seating yet.. but true black would be fuel.. but its only on startup, bit of puff than nothing....
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
A cold start up puff is pretty normal, some cars do this more than others. A healthy catalyst will help some. Both my ALHs do it, one more than the other. My BHW does it (did it since it was brand new).
 

tims944

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
montreal quebec
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI, 2006 mk5 tdi-SOLD 1989 944 s2 BHW swapped
it puffs a little for first few seconds than nothing, i mean i dont see anything in the mirror while driving, could be blow by could be all kinds but consensus is it seems normal. especially for a fresh rebuilt, rings need to seat stuff needs to wear in. as oilhammer said a Cat would help but meh.
 

tims944

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
montreal quebec
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI, 2006 mk5 tdi-SOLD 1989 944 s2 BHW swapped
im glad to say ive put over 2k km on this swap ! im not getting the fuel efficiency i want but i havent done any long highway only trips, right now seem to be averaging 7L/100km but thats just based on fill up.. and rough marking down of usage.

after all car is lifted, the tune i have probably isnt amazing, and i dont drive it as efficiently as i can hah, the instant 28psi of boost is pretty wild :)
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Does your cluster say immobilizer on each start up?
 
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turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Nice! I think I'd be more excited to come across this car than the twin turbo DeLorean I saw last summer.
 

tims944

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
montreal quebec
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI, 2006 mk5 tdi-SOLD 1989 944 s2 BHW swapped
Nope, i sent my cluster to Matt Litke. he took care of everything except 1 thing that we couldnt stop/disable so i just dealt with it myself sort of.

the only thing i currently have is a emmisions light because the glowplug harness seems to be bugging out every now and than and i just want to drive it so i havent done much to it.

i did just finally install my newly revamped lifted front suspension so am keen to put some miles on them!!
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
I only see his info on Facebook which I don't have. I have the Passat cluster in my 4runner I want to get the immobilizer screen to go away on so I can use the mpg calculator. Does he have an email address?
 
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