1988 audi 80 quattro to pd130

[tomiisp]

that oil sensor at oil pan its very tricky, it have digital output, I know how that signal look and what provide and also electronic to processing this I have in mind but I need find time to play with that

 

[vwmikel]

that brings up a good point with the oil pressure switches. I did notice that when I grounded the 80's signal wire the oil pressure light and buzzer went out. Maybe I'll just leave it grounded and go with a pressure gauge instead of the light.

The engine does have the oil sensor, but I wasn't planning on utilizing it unless you know of a good trick to get information from it without the instrument cluster. Are you using it?

I just used the old style pressure switches and threaded them into the filter flange as they're the same thread. That way the light works as it was intended.

 

[jjordan11]

I just used the old style pressure switches and threaded them into the filter flange as they're the same thread. That way the light works as it was intended.

Thanks, I should have thought of that. It keeps it simple and working as designed.

I finally made some progress, I got quite a few parts. Silicone intake parts with good t-clamps, a map sensor boss like the one vwmikel used from 42 draft designs, a 30 psi boost gauge (not that the turbo would be boosting that high) with the piping and restrictor for the gauge.

I got the starter and fan clutch in the mail today too, such a good day . I cut the viscous clutch off like tdisynchro did with his Audi. I really don't have much room in the front of the engine, I'm glad it fits with the radiator and it still has enough room to put the serp. belt on , it would have sucked to have to remove the front and radiator for the serp. belt.

I put the starter on and hooked up the starter's excite wire on and cranked it over, it cranked over pretty good, I don't have the ecm hooked up, or the throttle pedal hooked up, the box is pretty much done, I just need to make some time to fab up the bracket/cable assembly. It felt good to turn the ignition key and have the engine turn over.

 

[jjordan11]

I took apart the instrument cluster, Here's a shot of the back side of it. I'm wondering how the PD130's signal is going to be received by the 5 cyl's cluster. Tomiisp has some information on this and has been helping me a bit with some of these things. Here are a few shots, I am wondering if the potentiometer might be used to calibrate the tachometer.

I got the throttle pedal roughed in I took some pictures with my cell phone, the fiberglass box isn't finished, but it is enough to get the general idea. It isn't pretty, but it's functional. When the vehicle's throttle pedal is put to the floor the electronic throttle pedal is at it's stop.

I am thinking about taking out a large section of the wiring harness, the donor harness was out of a right hand drive Audi, so there is a foam encased section that goes across from the driver's side to the passenger's side. I think that I'll take the foam section out.

 

[tomiisp]

sometime I am lost in terms tachometer is meaning RPM meter or Speed meter ? (in our country tachometer is speedmeter but sometimes I read tacho=rpm ) ?
That chip is there, SAK215 , A100 have used another chip (older dashes have this small chip, newest other ITTxxx chip) but not problem, for what type of engine is your cluster board indeed, 5cyl gas ? That pot is only for fine tune (for example at 3000rpm you tune with pot correct value on gauge).
Can you disassemble PCB from gauge ? I need to see components values but now I can tell you, that red cap need to be changed to another value maybe also one of that bigger resistors

Edit: I find my old PCB Its from A100 cluster up to 1988, look pretty same

 

[jjordan11]

here's a clearer picture of the red chip.

Where did you get that tachometer, mine goes to a redline of 6200 rpms/revs. to get a closer look, look in my album.

 

[tomiisp]

I have cluster from TDI (A100 '89 2.5TDI 1T engine), seems you have scale for gas engine, if you want I can ask friend if he not have diesel rpm meter from A80(1.6TD as I remmeber), that can solve both your problems,scale and input ratio.

 

[jjordan11]

I got some parts to get the fuel system regulated down, cost a bit more than I was expecting, but the main part that I got, a pressure regulator, was the most expensive thing. When I got home I tried to see how much pressure it would take to crack the regulator... answer too much. At the store the person thought that it was a regulator that went from 0-50 psi, but based on my rudimentary tests I think that the lowest cracking pressure is 50 psi . I'll try my luck tomorrow.

edit: Well it turns out that my rudimentary testing isn't as accurate as I thought it would be. Surprise surprise... after loosening the valve completely and pushing on the plunger it opens without any resistance. I'll take some before pictures and post them. I also bought a cheap fuel pressure gauge to see what kind of pressures I am getting, I'm not sure that I would trust it being installed for long term usage.

I hope to get it in the 80 tonight and get the pressure regulated down to about 10 psi. I am close to starting it for some tests, so hopefully before long I can do a dynamic fuel pressure adjust.

 

[jjordan11]

success:

The lowest I can get it is about 6 psi. which is good, because they need more than that. I plan on mounting the regulator back by where I am going to mount the fuel cooler and just have the two lines coming up front for the supply and return. It feels good to have this part close to completion. I have it running right now to make sure that the lines that I teflon taped in, don't leak.

 

[jjordan11]

Well not too much to report on, I'm having too much fun on my bike and it's taking too much of my time. I am trying to find a good way to dissolve/remove the foam from the harness. This engine coming from england has the fuse block and associated connectors on the right side of the car and the result is this.

I was thinking about just cutting it out and mounting the ecm in the engine compartment, but the more I think about it the more I want to keep the wiring intact and just use some sort of solvent to dissolve the foam. I have tried some brake cleaner, diesel, gasoline, and acetone. The brake cleaner works the best, but will still be a slow process as the foam is quite resilient. Anybody have any suggestions for what to use and not damage the wiring.

 

[jjordan11]

Well I made some time to work on the Audi, I gave up dissolving the foam from the harness and just started removing the foam by hand, I found that pliars worked very well and after a couple hours I was able to make a good dent in the foam. Here is a shot of all the wires freed from the foam portion of the harness.

Here's a close shot of it, as you all can see there is still some foam attached to the wiring, but now I can bend and thin out the harness.

I still have some things to finish up before I want to attemp to start it. I need to perminately mount the radiator/intercooler. Put some hose clamps on the radiator hoses and some washers on the p/s pressure hose banjo bolt and mount the fuel pressure regulator in the back of the car.

A Summer storm blew through and knocked the front bumper cover into the intercooler, it did some minor damage and might have punctured a hole into the charge portion, I'll pressure check the system for leaks soon.

 

[jjordan11]

Time for a quick update. I put the fuel reg. in the back of the car where the old gasoline fuel filter and dampner was located and have been working on cleaning up the wiring. I just got back from a 2000 mile ride and should have some more time to dedicate to the Audi. I removed most of the original engine management wiring and took off the harness from the PD130 engine. More updates soon.

 

[jjordan11]

A co-worker and I towed the 80 back to my work, It's a lot easier to work with a lift . I decided to mount the battery back in the trunk. I had enough room in the engine compartment, but I figured what the heck I already had the cable for it.

Here is a shot of it going into the trunk from below.

Running along the rear subframe, It's zip-tied right now, does anybody have a better way to attach?

Attached to the fuel supply and return lines. Once again if somebody has a suggestion as to a better mounting solution I'm all ears .

I should be a bit more motivated to work on it now that I'm by all my tools and the weather is cooler. Next I'm going to mount the radiator/intercooler then it's on to the intercooler piping. Once I get it a little further I'm going to pull the engine out and put more support on that driver's side motor mount. I also need to clean the engine bay and paint the welds so they don't rust. I'm pretty lucky to live in an arid climate, things tend to not rust much.

 

[TDIsyncro]

I mounted the battery in the trunk a few weeks ago. I spent a fair bit of time trying to decide where to run the cables. In the end, routing under the car was not an option for me. I am pretty sure I would tear them loose in a hardpacked snow bank. Instead, I pulled the driver seat and side trim, lifted the carpet, and ran two strands of 1/0 cable to the front right kick panel, then tucked it up under the dash and through the ECU box on the driver side. Worked very nicely. I am goign to install one of these fuse blocks right of the battery with a 750A fuse, just encase the wire casing ever get chafed.

http://bluesea.com/category/5/21/productline/129

Also ran my water meth injection line this route as well since I tucked the pump in a corner of the spare tire well, and a military style 5 gal can strapped to the passenger side. I will get a few picks up some day soon.

 

[jjordan11]

Tdisynchro, that's a good way to run it. Ensures that it will not drag in the snow or other things. I'll have to see how I like it on the underside and possibly re-route it.

I got the intercooler and radiator mounted. It's in there pretty good, now just need to clean the welds up a bit and paint all the raw metal. Here are some pictures. (From a distance so nobody can poke too much fun at my welding skills ).

This lower picture shows the lower cross bar that I will attach the front snub mount. Now I can work on the intercooler pipe routing, that should be fun.

I ran the harness through the bulkhead to the passenger's compartment, right now the driver's floor looks like an electrician's nightmare. I am re-thinking my accelerator situation, I have it hooked to the accelerator cable in the engine compartment and it moves like it should from fully released to fully compressed. But now I am thinking that I would like the electronic pedal in the car. Sometimes I hate how indecisive I am.

More progress posts soon.

 

[jjordan11]

I contacted Geoff today regarding a stage 1 pd camshaft grind, I'll probably send it in next week to get the work done. Before I put the engine in the car I inspected the cam for wear and there was some, I was a bit dissapointed with it, but it was to be expected with a higher mileage PD. I don't think/I hope the wear isn't too bad that the cam will be a paper weight. I'll measure the camshaft lobes when I get back into town next week sometime.

More updates soon.

Jon

 

[hid3]

Nice project!

Sorry to hear about your cam. How many miles does the PD engine has got?

If I were you, I'd repplace camshaft and stuff now in order to avoid problems/repairs/downtime in the future. Once the cam wear has started it will develop at accelerated speed..

 

[Scott_DeWitt]

Nice project!

Sorry to hear about your cam. How many miles does the PD engine has got?

IIRC the engine was in the 60-70,000 mile range. Also might want to get with TDIsyncro regarding PD cams, I think he had something brewing.

BTW Jon you should see your alternator next week.

 

[jjordan11]

Made some progress after work tonight. Wiring is getting closer to completion, I need to check some power supply wiring at home. I need to get an origional oil pressure switch for the Audi still. I also got the camshaft sent out to Geoff at Colt Cams yesterday, I'd like to get it running and driving before it snows too much here. More updates soon.

Jon

 

[jjordan11]

I decided that now was the time to do the camshaft oiling mod that franko6 outlined in one of his threads. It wasn't too bad and makes sense to do due to the wearing of the bottom camshaft bearings. My new lifters came too. So now the wait for Colt Cams to grind my camshaft and return it.

Has anybody used non-stretch bolts (10.9 or 12.9) for the camshaft caps and also the injector rocker shaft? I remember seeing a thread for maybe getting arp to design a stud to hold down the injector rocker shafts, but I don't think that anybody has went that route yet. I have been searching for the right length/diameter/thread bolts with even an allen head that is grade 12.9, but it's proving to be difficult. I'll probably end up just replacing the cheese head screws, I wouldn't know what the torque spec would be with a non-tty bolt anyways.

I also got about 70% of the wiring done. I've decided to mount the ecm in the location of the motronics fi unit, it should be well protected and I have plenty of wiring thanks to the rhd British Audi that the engine and harness came out of.

I installed the oil pressure switch and found one of the signal wires for the instrument cluster, it is grounded at rest and looses it's ground with oil pressure. I also connected the coolant temp gauge to the sender that was tapped into the flange.

I have been thinking lately (now that I am getting closer to finished) about the driver's side motor mount on the chassis side that I welded. As other's have pointed out I don't think that it is strong enough. I need to re-think the design of it, I sure wouldn't like the mount to fail. I'd rather it overbuilt than good enough .

More updates soon.

Jon

 

[TDIsyncro]

PM Franko6 or Rod Bearings for the bearing cap and rail bolts, I think they have both replaced with standard 12.9 grade metric bolts.

If you get the info, please post back here for others.

 

[jjordan11]

I just got off the phone with Geoff there at Colt Cams. He said the cam was caught just in time (which I definitely believe), there was a visible wear mark on the tips of every exhaust lobe. My camshaft is done and he should be shipping it back to me this week, I'll post some pictures when it arrives .

I spoke with Scott D. about cryo. treatment and also wpc treatment, I think it sounds like a good idea. I brought it up with Geoff, he wasn't opposed to it, but didn't necessarily think it was necessary. What do you guys think?

I also talked with franko6 regarding the 12.9 grade fastners for the camshaft caps and rocker arm shafts. They should be on their way to here. I'll post the cost and torque method/values when I receive them.

 

[jjordan11]

lacking pins for the cruise control circuit...

Working on some of the periferial wiring for the car. I decided to use the Audi 80 cruise control switch and tie it into the ecm to supply the signals and have the ecm control the cruise. Only one problem, the pins for the cruise are 44, 45, 46, and 14 according to the AWX wiring diagram and also the edc 15 ALH diagrams I am looking at. With my wiring harness those pins are blank (no wires) . I suppose that maybe cruise control was an option in England? Anyone know if I could just put wired terminals into the empty terminal slots and activate cruise in the ecm?

I have the vehicle ready to start (minus the camshaft), but all the necessary wires are hooked up and good. I was concerned for a little bit concerning the speed signal to the ecm. Normally it goes from the sensor to the cluster than to the ecm. I didn't know if the ecm had a built in digital converter or not, but I don't think that will be an issue now as the 80's cluster gets the analog signal then sends out a signal to the old cruise control module and to the differential lock control module. I would assume that the signal going to the cruise module would be a converted signal, I'll hook up the dso just to make sure before I wire it into the ecm though and report my findings.

edit: Here are some pictures of the connector, pins 44, 45, & 46 are the leftmost three toward the camera.

Here's a messy shot of the wiring in the driver's footwell.

It looks worse than it is, most of the wiring on the floor are wires that are from the original 80's engine harness.

 

[vwmikel]

You probably won't have an issue wiring up the cruise and then just enabling it in vag-com. There are coding instructions around somewhere. I had to do the same thing. On my car I have the VSS wired to both the cluster and the ECU. Both seem to work fine. I have my doubts that the output signal from your cluster will work properly with the ECU, but it's worth a try. Maybe Dakota digital has something that will condition the signal for you.

 

[jjordan11]

Ok, thanks Mike. I'll try a direct connection to the ecm from the speed sensor. That would be easiest. After I get it going I'll need to have you chip it and we'll do the map based program you have. I'll pm you later when I'm ready for it. Are you planning on going to TDIfest in Portland?

 

[vwmikel]

Ok, thanks Mike. I'll try a direct connection to the ecm from the speed sensor. That would be easiest. After I get it going I'll need to have you chip it and we'll do the map based program you have. I'll pm you later when I'm ready for it. Are you planning on going to TDIfest in Portland?

I really have no idea yet...when is the Portland thing? This summer?

 

[jjordan11]

Here is a link to it. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=2770732
I'm not sure if I will be able to go, but I am more tempted now than ever to go .

 

[hid3]

jjordan11, be sure to post HIGH QUALITY pics of the old cam/followers/bearings when you replace them. The pics might help to guess the general wear on PD130 engines...

 

[tomiisp]

for enabling CC just use Login 11463 in Vag-com
ECU speed signal not need goes from cluster instr. , I have directly connected speed sensor from gearbox to ECU (paralell with cluster) without any problem (speed sensor is ,,pasive,, and it have two states - switched to ground and nothing , like simple button).
Signal GND/12V also work fine with ECU , ECU gets GND state as active

btw, when you replacing camshaft, I highly advise replace also o-ring sealings on injectors, they are common source of problems (engine shaking on acceleration/idling, fuel leak to oil, low pressure of fuel on injector input because it leak over o-ring to return line-this can be checked on Group 13 at VAG-com, if one cylinder goes over +2.0mg at warm that can be bad o-ring...)

and at last,one trick how to set-up 100% sync between camshaft and crankshaft, just look at Group 4 in VAG, last 4th value, there is sync value, ideal is 0.0 to +0.5, if you have negative values (+/-0.5 is fine) you can have growed fuel consumption and some lost of power, positive values have negative effect on power and engine noise

small tip, basic ,,tunning,, you can get with using SW from AVF engine, you get higher torque and more smooth engine running opposite to AWX soft (I advise to use 019KF from AVF on AWX engines >=2003), only difference between AWX and AVF is in clutch, AWX have 228mm(5 level gearbox) and AVF have 240mm (6 level gearbox and higher torque)

 

[jjordan11]

hid3 I sent you an e-mail with high resolution pictures, if anybody else wants some picts of the cam and lifters send me a pm with your e-mail address and I'll send the pictures.

Thanks Tomi, I was able to get the wiring done last night. I can't start it yet, due to the missing Cam , but it was cool to hear the lift pump turn on when I turned the ignition on for the pre-prime. I hooked up vag-com for the first time and activated cruise control. I looked at the measured values for the cruise and it's not working like I thought it would yet, I'll have to do some more figuring.

I still need to do the exhaust and the intercooler piping, I have all the silicone pipes and t-bolt clamps, just not the metal pipes. I also need to make a bracket for the fuel pump, I am re-locating it to along the bulkhead of the vehicle.

More updates soon.

Jon


Edit: I figured out the cruise control, I had some wires reversed. I was trying to figure out the different locations based on the diagram, but I ended up doing a bench test of the 80's cruise switch and matching them to the ecm's inputs. It appears to be functioning correctly now. We'll see when it's driving.

Now there are only 4 codes that need to be cleared up via programming. egr solenoid, intake manifold flap, missing message from airbag, and instrument cluster. It should have missing message from abs, it will probably show up later though.