1985 Mk2 Jetta NA Diesel - will be mine 2005-12-17 :D

[bhtooefr]

Edit: This car is now totalled. See here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=1376181#post1376181

52 horsepower (at 4800 RPMs), 71.5 foot/pounds of torque (at 2000 RPMs) of diesel soot fury (actually, except on startup, I haven't seen it smoke...)

I'm picking it up SATURDAY!

Two other pics in the album: http://my.opera.com/bhtooefr/albums/show.dml?id=22244

 

[vwjettadsl]

Congratulations!


--Ben

 

[jettafock]

Its about freakin time you got yourself a diesel.

 

[bhtooefr]

And, tomorrow, I'm getting it...

I've gotta get the TB changed, then fix the odometer, and then it's modding time.

First, a ventectomy. I might be the first to attempt an A2 ventectomy, however...

Second, make sure that it says "JETTA DIESEL", not just "JETTA" on the back - I found a "DIESEL" badge in the same font as the A2 "JETTA" badge on eBay

 

[Audi5000TDI]

No need for a ventectomy on a NA... nothing to clog. If you have oil blowby, you need to re-ring the pistons, easy to do... drop the oil pan, 2 bolts per connecting rod, number the rods/pistons, re-ring, put each one back in the hole it came out of.

How to check if rings are bad? hard to start when cold, blue smoke.... Or you can take the car for a drive to warm it up, leave the motor running, and carefully remove the oil cap.... If you have massive amounts of smoke inside while running that blows out the oil cap hole when you remove it, You've got blowby, could be you've got bad bores or need to re-ring. These motors will got 400k miles easy, usually need reringing at 200k, 300k and every 100k from there until you decide to bore them out. Lower bearings last forever in these 1.6 NA's.

For more power to the wheels, disconnect the power steering belt. These things are not safe on highways or interstates where the majority of traffic drives over 65 or 70.... You can not safely accelerate up to speed to merge with traffic.

Makle sure you check the tensioner after 1000 miles after doing your timing belt.

If you need to be cool, just get a K&N sticker for your air cleaner box, forget about the K&N aircleaner itself, they wreck motors by passing too much dirt and you will get zero increase in performance with them, sitck with the paper elements.

Do a new stock Mann air, oil and fuel filter, and run a good CI-4 rated oil like Rotella T or Delo 400 petro based oil, and please dont crash it!!!!!

That means that if you are a Newbie driver, pay attention to your driving and not the music channel, your cell phone, or your passengers goofing off next to you, or the soda you just dumped in the passenger seat from the drive through at Mickey D's.

See you soon in the Economy section in the Monthly MPG contests.... You should see 42 in winter around town, 46 in summer, and if you are really good with driving techiniques and do a flatland freeway trip at 60mph in summer with no stops, you might see 52 or 53 mpg.

Stick to stock sized tires and rims... anything wider or larger will kill you on acceleration rates.

This thing is a classic, Mods are to be strongly discouraged. You can redo the odo if you can search and find a new plastic drive gear for the cluster somewhere and install it. Plastic gets brittle and cracks, odo then no longer works.... Easy fix.

 

[bhtooefr]

What power steering belt? This one has no such thing.

Also, by "ventectomy", I mean -ectomizing the FUEL TANK vent. So I can get 15.6 gallons in without pushing in the little button, instead of 14.0.

There was some white smoke when starting, but once it was started (just had to give it some pedal until it was going), no smoke at all. And, the cold start handle that I've read should be pulled above 15*F was not pulled - that should help the smoke.

 

[Audi5000TDI]

My mistake... I'm not certain if by 1985 power steering was even an available option. It was on A2's by 89 through 91. I don't even know if you just had a straight vent tube with no valve at the fill up neck, venectomys I think started later than 1985???? Certainly not an option on either my 81 A1 or my 83 Audi5000TD.


How far are you driving that 1 gallon is going to make a difference for you that a venectomy is an important mod?

White smoke is normal at start up in 20F or colder weather... it is incomplete combustion of fuel in the swirl chambers on an IDI motor.

Getting good fuel with Cetane additive is very important for you in northern climates if you want your car to start. Timing belts stretch and make it hard to start also. Thats another way of knowing you need a timing belt, because your injector pump timing gets retarded and they become stubborn to start and your idle speed will be lower due to the retarded timing.

Start up procedure:

No need to gas it intitially when it's cold, you'll just wet the swirlchambers with excess fuel. Listen carefully to when the engine starts to pop on a cylinder or two, then gently give it a little go pedal until all the cyinders start firing. You may even have to cycle the ignition key twice to get the glow plugs hot enough to get it to pop.


Keeping your car in a heated garage will make it much easier to start in cold weather in the mornings, don't know if Dad will let you do that. Sure helps a diesel engine alot more than it does a gasser though.

Remember, this is a diesel, not a gas car... You drive a diesel for torque, a gasser for HP.... they are on completely opposite ends of the rpm range. Since you don't have a tachometer, pay attention to your upshift arrow on the dash. Use it wisely and short shift the motor. Gently accelerate in cold weather until you water temp comes up to full temperature, which might take 5 to 7 minutes in the winter on really cold days. Idling the motor will not warm it up, drive it gently to get things working. Diesels in winter are cold blooded and efficient, so get used to wearing your jacket, gloves and tuk until the heater starts working while you are driving.
What state are you in? Nortern tier state?

 

[bhtooefr]

I'm in Ohio.

We don't even have a garage that has room for a car, and where I'll end up moving to won't have *ANY* garage at all.

I suspect that the shift light isn't hooked into the alternator, so I'll have to do that, or use the recommended shift points on the speedometer (however, there's no recommended shift point to exit 4th gear...)

I put fuel in today, and there was DEFINITELY a vent button in there. I only put $10 in, though - didn't bother filling it because the odo's busted (we definitely didn't need a full tank, and mileage numbers are wildly inaccurate without an odo).

And, the ventectomy thing was just so that I could try to join the 700 mile club - that's unlikely without venting (don't want to run it dry, after all, especially considering it's a VE). (I guess I could vent manually for one 700 mile club entry, but...)

My manual mentions something along the lines of "Power Steering*" with the * being defined as "* where applicable" (translation: it's an option, and mine doesn't have it).

 

[bhtooefr]

OK, so I was wrong about the color...

Checked the color sticker, it said LA8V instead of LA7V. So, I checked. Quartz Grey Metallic, not Polar Silver Metallic.

 

[oilhammer]

Nice ride! I wouldn't worry about removing the vent, as you can easily push the little nipple with the fuel filler nozzle and get an extra 3/4 gallon or so in there...there isn't as much of a difference on the older ones as on the newer ones.

MOGolf has inquired about the correct tools, you may want to check out eBay actually as I have seen the dial indicator sets on there every once in a while for very cheap.

Your '85 may have solid lifters, if so you'll want to check the valve lash (easy to do, but to adjust you'll need a shim assortment and the nifty little valve depresser tool).

Sucks that it doesn't have power steering, makes them much nicer to drive...but yours will be much easier to work on. The power steering always seems to be in the way under the hood on the A2.

I'd plan on checking all the stuff I listed in another thread, and if you do a timing belt plan on replacing the 3 front seals, int. shaft retainer o-ring, and water pump (possibly the pump housing as well, which is easy but time consuming).

Don't worry about cold starts, so long as the engine is healthy, glowplugs are good, battery is good, starter is good, and not too thick of oil (I run synthetic 5w40 year round in mine) it'll start right up. None of my diesels have ever failed to start even in single digit weather after sitting out over night. They are slow to warm up, however. And if your HVAC case's blend doors' foam is coming off as many do your heat won't work as well as it could.

I'd also get some G11 (blue) coolant. It'll save the car from the common radiator and heater core woes so many A2s have had over the years...except my '91 which has never had any green coolant in it at all!

 

[bhtooefr]

Hmm... so THAT could be why it was kinda lukewarm when it was finally warmed up...

I'll go dig up that thread, too, and just go through and make sure on everything.

I'm going to order a Bentley soon, this *(#@ piece of *#$( Haynes gasser manual that the guy threw in for free is totally useless. Totally. Heck, it'd still be totally useless if I had an 85 Jetta GASSER!

 

[Audi5000TDI]

Like I said, Jacket, Gloves and Took, Hoser! Listen to Oilhammer, his recommendations are spot on with my experiences with my old A1 Jetta Coupe.

Be smart, go through everything he said, get the Rotella T Synth 5w-40 and factory Mann oil filters. Change the oil immeidately, sounds like the last guy wasnt' aware of the special needs of a diesel, let alone timing belts.

Treat here right and she'll be very reliable. I've been restoring an 82 Audi 4000 Diesel this past month, same 1.6L motor layed out conventional, easy to work on and get at the timing belt on it. But down on mpg, you lose more with the tranny /drive shafts at a 90... about 45mpg is my best in it, maybe a little heavier too.

These things are very easy to work on.

 

[bhtooefr]

Hmm... the OM was suggesting a CC or CD-rated 15w40 or 15w50 oil for my climate, but then again, this was 1985...

We use Shell Rotella T non-synth, IIRC 15w40, in our Chevy diesel. Running the same oil in both would be advantageous. So, what's your opinion of just running that?

There's a bottle of whatever was used in the last change, I think it was Delo 400, didn't check the viscosity, in the car. I can check tomorrow...

 

[compu_85]

The high quality oils of today did not exist 21 years ago. Heck, you could probably extend the drain interval to like 7500 miles, right guys?

-J

 

[nicklockard]

Congrats!

Turbo, turbo, turbo

Mod mod mod mod








J/K. Enjoy that Jetta

 

[Jetter_Sprinta]

a near twin to my first diesel BOL!

 

[oilhammer]

The factory oil change interval was 7500, I run 10k with synthetic, just like a TDI. Only the old diesels may be easier on the oil, I don't know. Nearly 5 quart capacity, big Mann or Mahle oil filter, no turbo, no EGR, only thing it has against it is very low gearing. Mine seem to do just fine though...fast approaching 400k miles

 

[bhtooefr]

OK, the oil in it is Chevron Delo 400, CI-4 spec, 15W40.

I know 5W40 isn't a recommended weight, so what are the advantages of running that weight instead of 15W40?

Here's Chevron's description of the oil:

Chevron Delo® 400 Multigrade SAE 15W-40
Chevron Delo 400 Multigrade heavy duty motor oil is an industry leading, super premium quality "universal" engine oil which exceeds industry and engine manufacturers' performance requirements. It is formulated utilizing the most advanced additive technology available to provide outstanding engine protection under both pre- and post-1998 EPA exhaust particulate emissions standards for on highway diesel trucks, using both high and low sulfur diesel fuels.

Chevron Delo 400 Multigrade is formulated with ISOSYN™ base stocks, which rival synthetics in critical engine tests and an optimal blend of the latest technology in dispersant, detergent, oxidation inhibition, antiwear, corrosion inhibition, viscosity improver, and defoaming additives.

"which rival synthetics"... that's a Group III oil, right?

 

[oilhammer]

The difference is on a single digit morning start-up, with synthetic 5w40 it'll crank and start just as easy as on a 70 degree day. 15w40 seems to really drag the starter down on a cold start. Plus, while I have never done any oil analysis on my '91, I suspect it'll hold up better than the 15w40 regular oil over the long run. The only caveat is that the engine may use some oil with synthetic. I have found my car only uses about 1/2 to 1 quart in 10k miles. Exactly the same as my '98 TDI did running the same oil. I also think the synthetic oil improves fuel economy just a bit, at least during warm-up which can take a while on a cold morning with these cars.

 

[mikeyworks]

I recently sold my '85 TD Jetta...boy do I miss that thing some days.

It was nice, even at 175K miles.

If there's anything you want to know, please feel free to bounce ideas off me.

Also, if you're looking for a great discussion forum for the IDI engines, check out http://www.vwdiesel.net as those guys are the gurus when it comes to these engines!!!

Mikey

 

[Audi5000TDI]

Toof... just go easy on the $ and buy the Rotella T Synthetic 5w-40 at Walwmart, it's the blue bottle... 4 quarts for $13 and you can go 10k on an oil and filter no problem.... but seeing that your car is older, watch your oil consumption and keep an eye on it this first year or two to get a feel for the oil consumption on this motor. check it every fill up and see how many Miles it takes to eat a quart of oil. Report back to us on this.

 

[Jetter_Sprinta]

...I'm going to order a Bentley soon, this *(#@ piece of *#$( Haynes gasser manual that the guy threw in for free is totally useless. Totally. Heck, it'd still be totally useless if I had an 85 Jetta GASSER!

I have a copy in need of an enthusiastic new owner if you are interested...$20 shipped? PM me.

-Scott

 

[bhtooefr]

Ygpm

 

[donniemac]

I had one too!

I recently sold my '85 TD Jetta...boy do I miss that thing some days.
It was nice, even at 175K miles.
If there's anything you want to know, please feel free to bounce ideas off me.
Also, if you're looking for a great discussion forum for the IDI engines, check out http://www.vwdiesel.net as those guys are the gurus when it comes to these engines!!!

Funny you should say that. I had an '85 TD Jetta in Quartz Grey Metallic! Great car. It had sat on a Ford dealer's lot for at least 19 months. The window seal rubber was shot, and the plastic door liners were too, so there was water puddled in the rear seat floor. Battery was dead. BUT, with a shot of fresh fuel and a jump, it started up, coughed out a cloud of 19-month old diesel phlegm, and ran like a champ. The cloth upholstery was better quality than anything out there today. I traded an 87 Taurus in on it and got money in the deal!!!! I put a decent stereo in it (the OE radio was awful), and GTI 14 inch (WOOOOOOO) wheels, and thought I was the s**t.

Here are my suggestions: 1)check the window seals. If there's any sign of wetness in the car, pull the door panels and check the plastic liners. 2) If it has AC, run a wire up the AC drain, to make sure it isn't plugged. 3)Mine had vibrated the AC mounts loose, which led to a relatively expensive repair. 4)The coolant hoses include a really elaborate molded hose. Check it out. A replacement is pricey, but you don't have any option. 5)I agree with the OE/Mann filters. Never gave me an instant's problem. 6)My front discs were shot, but the replacement was easy. 6)Find a good salvage yard. Used parts (when you need them) will save you a wad. Two cases in point: Window cranks and door handles. DAMHIK.

Mine didn't have power steering either. Neither did the Rabbit before that, bu the Jetta had so much more power, I didn't care. E-NOR-mous trunk.

I used Rotella-T exclusively on that car. I'm sure that more educated minds will be happy to discuss the pluses and minuses of changing to synthetics at this point in the car's life.

I noticed a couple of things. The corrosion on the valve cover and the radiator suggests to me that the car may have been allowed to overheat. It also could have been overagressive pressure washing in the past too. It also has an '88-'89 grille on it.

Great place to join diesel-dom and VW life. Enjoy!

 

[vwestlife]

OK, the oil in it is Chevron Delo 400, CI-4 spec, 15W40.
I know 5W40 isn't a recommended weight, so what are the advantages of running that weight instead of 15W40?

I used Rotella T 15W-40 in my '92 Jetta ECOdiesel and '81 Mercedes 240D and never had any trouble starting in winter, at temps down to about 5 degrees F. Delo 400 is just as good, if not even better than, Rotella T. The only diesel-rated 5W-40 oil you'll find is synthetic, which is like 4x the cost of regular dino oil, and for a car like your Jetta, it's not really worth it. Just use a proper diesel-rated oil, an oil filter by any company except FRAM, change it every 5000 to 7500 miles, and you'll be in good shape.

And don't be afraid to give it all it's got. The injection pump has a rev-limiter so you can't hurt it by staying too long in a gear. On my Jetta I could push it at least 3 to 4 MPH above the red shift marks on the speedo in each gear, and I got it up to near 100 MPH once on a long downhill run, despite VW's official top speed figure of 92 MPH. With the ECOdiesel's extra-tall gearing (with a 4.25:1 final drive ratio!) that was probably very close to redlining it in top gear. I did the same thing with my 240D and it only ran better because of it!

p.s. I have to say, for a 17-year-old you're pretty sharp! It's clear you have a passion for diesel cars, and compared to some of the passions many other kids your age have, that's a healthy thing.

 

[bhtooefr]

FWIW, Rotella T 15W-40 is like $7.08/gal or thereabouts at Wal-Mart.
Rotella T synthetic 5W-40 is like $7.56/gal or thereabouts. $0.48/gal more.

 

[jbattenhouse]

I would like to know what Walmart is selling the Rotella T synthetic for $7.56 a gallon. Every one that I have seen selling it lists it for $13.48/gallon. And the advantage to using the 5w-40 synthetic is not just about cold starting. It has more to do with how well it will flow at cold temperatures and lubricate when cold. The most engine wear is caused in the first few minutes after starting the engine. A lower viscosity oil will flow much better at cold temperatures to bearings and other vital engine parts.

That being said, my dad had an A1 Rabbit diesel (two actually) that he used Shell Rotella T 15w-40 oil in and did not seem to have many issues with either one of them. However, we lived in Ga at the time (I still do) and the car was garaged, so it was not the same as being outside in the great, white North.

 

[bhtooefr]

IIRC, it was the one in Marion, OH. It *MIGHT* have been the one in Mt. Vernon, though.

Basically, you're saying I should have bought a few gallons right then?

 

[donniemac]

<snip>my dad had an A1 Rabbit diesel (two actually) that he used Shell Rotella T 15w-40 oil in and did not seem to have many issues with either one of them. However, we lived in Ga at the time (I still do) and the car was garaged, so it was not the same as being outside in the great, white North.

I used Rotella T 15W-40 exclusively in my 1981 A1. I had it come to a stop on two occasions, but that was from fuel jelling, not oil issues. The only time things were too thick to start was one Christmas in Charleston WV when the combination of consecutive sub-zero overnight lows and a slightly feeble battery killed 'er. Of course, of the several cars there at the time, the only one that would start was my brother's '74 Honda Civic. Never had a problem with the TD Jetta with Rotella T either, but weather was kind to me while I had it. Synth ever since.

 

[bhtooefr]

OK, guys, the car's first mod is done.

I present to you...

THE GHETTO LICENSE PLATE MOUNT!

Rather than spend almost $90 for a new one at Impex, or hunt one down at a junkyard, I decided to make my own. Next thing to do, get a couple bolts, and then the whole mod will be hidden under a TDIClub license plate frame

Anyway, the timing belt change will be Monday.