1982 Vanagon Westfalia AHU build

AndyBees

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May 27, 2003
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Southeast Kentucky
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Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Sorry but I was not able to read the whole thread but I"d like to ask if going at 65mph you"d get 2650 Rpm, with 15 inches tires, is there any other way to do a better ratio on gears so it can drop rpm a little more, ,,, knowing now that we"re always driving at least 70 and up on highways it"d be too much rpms and stress on the van??? maybe too much gap between gears?? but a little modding on it and should help if there is too much gap,,
Max, as I recall, my DK tranny with the 4.57 R&P and .77 4th gear using 15/215/75 tires cranks about 2850 at 65 mph.

A .70 4th gear would drop the rpms below 2700 at 65 mph. I have the info in an Excel speadsheet but not on this PC.

My gearing is about balanced from 1st to 2nd to 3rd and to 4th.... about 1000 RPM drop between shifts. So, taking the RPMs up to and above 3000 per shift leaves the engine at peak torque (1900 to 2000) for the next gear. (my 3rd gear is a 1.14 vs the 1.23 OE)

70 mph is approximately 3000 rpms with my set-up! ......... more than I would like. But, I'm happy (and the engine/van too) with 65 mph in the right lane:D
 

markward

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Jul 5, 2007
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Loxahatchee, Florida
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82 Vanagon and 2011 JSW
Installing the tallest tire you can on a vanagon is probably good for no more than 200 rpm. You need to address gearing. I am running a 4.14 ring and pinion with a .77 4th gear and 215/65/16 tires. My rpm at 70mph is about 2900 rpm. I was actually geared to tall with this setup and needed to install some larger nozzels to pull 4th up long uphill grinds. Nothing fancy though. Bozio Sprint 520s. The Vanagon is a big heavy box. You can up the hp and torque to handle even taller gearing, but I am not sure how much power the vanagon gearbox can take. I think you'd need to add a transmission cooler at a minimum. I am happy to cruise 70 or so mph. It has lots of pep left for passing and gets ok mileage.
 

jjordan11

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Jan 5, 2008
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Lehi, UT
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1988 Audi 80 quattro PD130, 1982 Westfalia TDI
Bringing this thread back from the dead. I decided to do the flipped Passat transaxle conversion and purchased an adapter plate, flange adapters, and the rear mount from Tim Shettle at http://www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk/
The British Pound to Dollar exchange rate is horrible right now, but I really want to do some camping with the family this summer in it, so it was purchased anyways.
I ordered the plate and hardware on April 29th and it arrived today (May 1st) from the UK, I was impressed with how quickly it arrived.
My initial impressions with the adapter plate are that it is made from good quality metal and is designed to last a while. It appears to be zinc coated for anti-corrosive reasons, and is pretty thick. The flange adapters step the 108mm (from memory) flange down to the 100mm adapters that the Vanagon has, the Passat trans is also more narrow than the Vanagon trans.
I will be putting the Volvo motor mounts in too, I also think the whole powertrain assembly will need to be lowered slightly to give better CV angles, so I'll have to change the motor cradle a bit.
I bought a Euro Passat transaxle that I had thought about putting into the Westy, but have decided against that.

Here are some rpm numbers for the different transaxles (@70mph with 215/65R16):

DUK (TDI trans)

4th 2711 rpms
5th 2125 rpms

DHW (1.8T trans)

5th 2701 rpms

DVZ (V6 trans)

5th 2543 rpms

I decided to go with the 1.8T trans (I already have it;), if I feel the revs are too high, I will look for a V6 trans to replace it with.

I also ordered an A5 Jetta shift tower assembly that I will adapt to fit into the van to make it a cable shift, it has a nice strong aluminum base, and shifts the same as a Porsche Boxster shifter. I will have to disable the reverse lockout for it, or adapt it to work with a Passat's shift pattern. I have yet to receive it (ebay special), but it should be here tomorrow. I plan on using a pair of boat control cables to go to the back of the Van.

I have been asked to not show pictures of the plate and associated hardware, but will show the other photos of work performed. I'm looking forward to getting some work done again.
 
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jjordan11

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Jan 5, 2008
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Lehi, UT
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1988 Audi 80 quattro PD130, 1982 Westfalia TDI
A quick picture of the cable shift mechanism I made up. It is mocked up with zip ties until I get some longer control cables from a boat. It is functional right now and the shifts feel good and crisp.

Together with the shifter from a 2008 GTI Golf.
 
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AndyBees

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May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
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Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
I'm watching closely. This approach with transmissions bolted to a Vanagon TDI conversion has been on my list of probability!

Due to the vast amount of Earth between here and Australia, I wrote-off the Subaru flipped ring gear thingy (Subrugears)!

From your list, I believe 2700 RPMs in 5th gear will be best. However, I'd be more inclined to go for about 2800 RPMs in top gear at 70 mph.

With my conversion, 3000 RPMs in top gear (4th, .77 ratio) with 215/70/15 tires yields approximately 68 mph. The engine is more than loaded with torque at that RPM (Malone Stage 1 tune, everything else is stock).

Looking good! Keep us posted!

EDIT: CV Joints that fit the VW Thing and 944 Porsche provide more angle! I installed a set on my Vanagon tranny... made in Germany Lobros!
 
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markd89

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Oct 21, 2009
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Los Angeles
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1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
I'm watching closely. This approach with transmissions bolted to a Vanagon TDI conversion has been on my list of probability!

From your list, I believe 2700 RPMs in 5th gear will be best. However, I'd be more inclined to go for about 2800 RPMs in top gear at 70 mph.

With my conversion, 3000 RPMs in top gear (4th, .77 ratio) with 215/70/15 tires yields approximately 68 mph. The engine is more than loaded with torque at that RPM (Malone Stage 1 tune, everything else is stock).
I'm watching with great interest too. I think I'd have chosen the V6 trans. If there's a big hill and more gearing/power is needed, there'd always be 4th gear.

Looking forward to seeing the project progress and seeing the results!

Mark
 

jjordan11

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Lehi, UT
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1988 Audi 80 quattro PD130, 1982 Westfalia TDI
Thanks for the feedback, I was starting to wonder if anyone was interested anymore.
I'm glad I decided against the Euro transmission, that would have been too high geared.
I need to remove the Passat transmission, and remove 20mm from the mounting surface of the bellhousing. It will need a passat flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, and starter.
Thanks for the tips about the CV joints, I will need to get them for sure.
 

jjordan11

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Lehi, UT
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1988 Audi 80 quattro PD130, 1982 Westfalia TDI
Andy, where did you find your CV joints? What is a good price for them?
 

AndyBees

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Southeast Kentucky
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Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Well, as luck would have it, I do some baby sitting (got to love those grandkids). So, while they watch cartoons I comb the Internet for things I need.

So, in the Samba I stumbled onto three of the CV Joints, new, never used. I could see the number on the box and did a search. More searching revealed the various fitments.

Are you sitting down? I got the three for $100.00 shipped. Then about two weeks later, I found a single for $40.00 shipped.

Then, I ordered Lobro German made boots from Van Café or GoWesty. I cannot remember which one for sure.

Yes, a real deal!
 

mogly

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May 27, 2003
Location
Sarnia, ON, Canada
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MKIV TDI + B5.5V AVF/01E
Thanks for the feedback, I was starting to wonder if anyone was interested anymore.
I'm glad I decided against the Euro transmission, that would have been too high geared.
I need to remove the Passat transmission, and remove 20mm from the mounting surface of the bellhousing. It will need a passat flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, and starter.
Thanks for the tips about the CV joints, I will need to get them for sure.

Cool idea. Seeing that you have a T3 and I suppose you've seen XXoooXX's build on the samba with the reversed 1.8T? His first trans that he installed he felt was too tall and went with a shorter one thereafter. I'm not that familiar with the flipped Passat trans. I do recall reading about one a while ago on 80/90 but that fellow cut the BH and rewelded. If I've read correctly, you're using a BH adapter?

It's neat to see so many different options out there for the T3. Not that many years ago it was a T3 trans or you had better be an excellent fabricator.

I'm curious how you're going to go about the shift cables.

Keep it up.
 

jjordan11

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Lehi, UT
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1988 Audi 80 quattro PD130, 1982 Westfalia TDI
I was following XXoooXX's thread closely, that guy has some mechanical abilities. I liked how many naysayers there were at the beginning when he presented his idea to the samba masses. One by one, their doubts were addressed until the 1.8 was running backwards and performing even better than He thought it would.
I ordered some 12 foot long boat control cables, I have the 3 foot cables (that came with the ebay shift mechanism). It is shifting very smoothly and feels very precise. I am excited get the longer cables and finish the mock-up.
I mentioned briefly a few posts back about disabling the reverse lockout mechanism, it turned out to be easier than I thought it would be. On the shifter housing, there is an aluminum ramp that that keeps a polyurethane covered bracket attached to the shift lever from being able to move to the far left, unless depressed. I ground some down on the aluminum housing, but this was not necessary. I was able to remove the poly covered bracket.
Lockout mechanism that was built into the shifter:

A nice feature built into the Passat transmission's detent assembly is the inability to go from 5th gear to reverse. It has to be placed in neutral, then can be put into reverse. I will post some pictures of these parts and what I plan on doing with the shift lever tomorrow.
 
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mogly

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May 27, 2003
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Sarnia, ON, Canada
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MKIV TDI + B5.5V AVF/01E
I was following XXoooXX's thread closely, that guy has some mechanical abilities. I liked how many naysayers there were at the beginning when he presented his idea to the samba masses. One by one, their doubts were addressed until the 1.8 was running backwards and performing even better than He thought it would.

I ordered some 12 foot long boat control cables, I have the 3 foot cables (that came with the ebay shift mechanism). It is shifting very smoothly and feels very precise. I am excited get the longer cables and finish the mock-up.

I mentioned briefly a few posts back about disabling the reverse lockout mechanism, it turned out to be easier than I thought it would be. On the shifter housing, there is an aluminum ramp that that keeps a polyurethane covered bracket attached to the shift lever from being able to move to the far left, unless depressed. I ground some down on the aluminum housing, but this was not necessary. I was able to remove the poly covered bracket. A nice feature built into the Passat transmission's detent assembly is the inability to go from 5th gear to reverse. It has to be placed in neutral, then can be put into reverse. I will post some pictures of these parts and what I plan on doing with the shift lever tomorrow.

I figured you must have seen his thread. I presume you've seen his second thread on swapping a Quattro system into a Syncro? Pretty cool. It got me thinking that a TDI has the possibilities to run backwards too. The AAB 2.4L and ACU are basically AAZ and AHU with an extra cylinder but their IPs are driven on the opposite end and CCW so surely their must be other 4 cyl CCW IPs. The cam would have to be dealt with. Anyhow, sorry for the thread de-rail! ha.

Good call on the boat controls and an interesting simple solution for the lock out.
 

jjordan11

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Jan 5, 2008
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Lehi, UT
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1988 Audi 80 quattro PD130, 1982 Westfalia TDI
I got a chance to work on the Vanagon again, at first I was hoping that I could just cut a larger hole in the bottom of the Vanagon's floor to fit the new shifter into the van, but there appeared to be s structural support bracket about 3 inches behind the hole for the shift mechanism. I didn't want to cut this bracket, so I decided to make a contraption that would lower the shift box by about 3 inches.
Started out by making a square out of some angle iron that was similar in dimension as the OEM shift box mechanism of the Vanagon:

Here is an approximation of the location in relation to the Golf GTI shifter:

Here it is with it all welded up:

Here it is in the Van, I still need to find a shift lever and a good way to seal it from the outside, but that shouldn't be too difficult.

Now, just waiting for the longer shift cables (12" boat control cables), remove the transaxle from my passat, and machine the bell housing down the thickness of the adapter plate.
 

jjordan11

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Jan 5, 2008
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Lehi, UT
TDI
1988 Audi 80 quattro PD130, 1982 Westfalia TDI
Received the boat control cables, they should be just long enough for what I need. The throw is also a bit longer than the OEM VW shift cables, so that's good, better to be a bit long than too short.
Been working on a neighbor's recent purchase, a neglected 2006 Polaris Ranger 700. Once I get it out of the shop, I will start working on the Westy again.
 

AndyBees

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May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
That's the problem ........... seems always another project to address!

I finally got my little garage and back-log cleaned out today!

It feels good to get those parts and find time to get back to the project!

Keep at it my friend!
 

jjordan11

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Jan 5, 2008
Location
Lehi, UT
TDI
1988 Audi 80 quattro PD130, 1982 Westfalia TDI
Thanks Andy, slowly things are returning back to the way they were before I changed jobs over 3 years ago :/. It does feel good to be getting a lot of the side jobs/tracks out of the way.
I decided the easiest way to connect the cable end links to the new cables was to weld them together, I think it went pretty good. I welded one cable completely, the other still has to be welded. Here is a picture of one of the links:


The boat control cable appears to be stainless steel, but the OEM VW piece was galvanized, so I may have to apply some excess grease to keep the rust away.
 

jjordan11

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Jan 5, 2008
Location
Lehi, UT
TDI
1988 Audi 80 quattro PD130, 1982 Westfalia TDI
I received some 3/8" pinch collars that I used to attach the new longer cables to the shifter box and also on the transaxle.
On the shifter side I made a hybrid OEM/collar attachment point, it uses the plastic end pieces that the original shift cables had.
Here are some pictures to illustrate, please excuse the mess:

Another with the plastic end pieces snapped together:
On the transaxle side, I welded the collars onto a bracket. It seems to be a solid point of attachment at this point. Time will tell how it works out.
Here is the transaxle side:

I got about halfway through pulling out the Passat transaxle, but alas, my weekend is over. More to come.
 

xoo00oox

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Jun 18, 2014
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east nassau, NY
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most
xoo00oox checking in here. Nice work going on here, I like your shifter ideas. I tried the complete boxster setup but abandoned it because the cables were not long enough. I could have gone with custom cables but decided to do it with linkage instead.

I do actually have a TDi being reversed in the works. It will be a while before that one is done. I am a TDi guy as well as 1.8t guy.

How is your ground clearance looking with the trans upside down? I did look into this option years ago but didn't like the way the CV hubs are put way up high.

Keep up the progress, it will be neat to see this done.

Andrew-
 

easy-does-it

Member
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Mar 28, 2013
Location
Cambridgeshire, uk
TDI
'76 vw t2 EJ20T..now going 1z
Hi, im tired so may be missing something. but your gear numbers penned on the box are wrong ( 2 is 1 and so forth)..
Mine is still work in progress, but my mates van has been up and running for a few months and just thought id share some of the problems he's come across since completion.
The bush on the gear change stalk ( for a better word ) needs replacing as it leaks, not major, but the odd spot every now and then .
The major problem is with the now breather, with the diff being so high it kicks oil up. He's got a 6" pipe with a fuel filter and a bit of pipe looped over and still stops every 100 miles or so to let it drain back...
You may already have it covered, but i thought id share info as it's all a learning process.. love your work by the way :)
 

jjordan11

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Jan 5, 2008
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Lehi, UT
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1988 Audi 80 quattro PD130, 1982 Westfalia TDI
Thanks for the input guys, I haven't had much time to work on it lately. Working nights really puts a damper on things. I also had a couple side jobs that have taken me away from my own projects. XooOOoox, thanks for commenting here, I have followed your work with the reversed 1.8t Van, it is inspiring to see you overcome the obstacles in that project. A TDI that runs in reverse would be great, I would love to do that instead of the flipped box.. I'll take some pictures once it's closer to show the CV angles. It does indeed put the CV flanges quite high in relation to gearbox centerline.
Regarding the breather, I question the amount of gearbox oil that is put into the gearbox once it is flipped. The specification when upright is 2.25L of lube, some people are adding the oil all the way to the fill plug, putting well over 4L in once flipped. Looking internally at the gears, I don't think it is necessary to have so much gear lube. If it is, will someone please inform me as to why?
I need to get a inside bearing puller like the VAG1582/2 or equivalent to pull the inside bearing. I haven't had time to look for one, hopefully this next weekend I will be able to concentrate on it.
 

jjordan11

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Jan 5, 2008
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Lehi, UT
TDI
1988 Audi 80 quattro PD130, 1982 Westfalia TDI
Does anybody have a VAG1582 with the VAG1582/2 attachment they would be willing to either sell me or lend me? I need it to pull the input shaft bearing out of the case and off the shaft. There is a snap ring behind that bearing that needs to be removed in order to remove the main gear cluster. I need to pull out the guts to have the bell housing machined down to accept the adapter plate.
If not I guess I will purchase some, I love new tools, but these ones are so specific I probably won't use them much.
 

jjordan11

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Lehi, UT
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1988 Audi 80 quattro PD130, 1982 Westfalia TDI
It would appear that nobody in this circle has this tool, that's alright, I love having the right tool for the job. I'll have to order one in.

On a side note, I found a V-6 transmission local that I am going to purchase. I think this trans should have the optimal ratios.

I don't know if Jimbote reads this, but if so, thanks for the link to that intercooler in Andybees thread, I think I may go that route. The air to water intercooler just hasn't performed as well as I hoped it would. Did your friend that installed it into his Vanagon experience an increase in lag or response?
 

jjordan11

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Lehi, UT
TDI
1988 Audi 80 quattro PD130, 1982 Westfalia TDI
It would appear that nobody in this circle has this tool, that's alright, I love having the right tool for the job. I'll have to order one in.

On a side note, I found a V-6 transmission local that I am going to purchase. I think this trans should have the optimal ratios.

I don't know if Jimbote reads this, but if so, thanks for the link to that intercooler in Andybees thread, I think I may go that route. The air to water intercooler just hasn't performed as well as I hoped it would. Did your friend that installed it into his Vanagon experience an increase in lag or response?
 

jimbote

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Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
It would appear that nobody in this circle has this tool, that's alright, I love having the right tool for the job. I'll have to order one in.
On a side note, I found a V-6 transmission local that I am going to purchase. I think this trans should have the optimal ratios.
I don't know if Jimbote reads this, but if so, thanks for the link to that intercooler in Andybees thread, I think I may go that route. The air to water intercooler just hasn't performed as well as I hoped it would. Did your friend that installed it into his Vanagon experience an increase in lag or response?
surprisingly no real lag even when it was installed in the '76 with long IC pipes ... he is running 2" pipework and stepping it up @ the intercooler to 3" ...
 

AndyBees

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Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Jon, I was having Intercooler cooling issues recently. Going over the Van for the Road Trip, I discovered that a wire crimp was not making good contact.

Anyway, while the issue was going on, I looked at several options for another IC location, etc. So, it looks like I can do a 90 degree out of my Turbo to the front to an IC under the bottom and the back with a 90 degree into the existing IC ... two ICs should bring the temps down.

I've never considered water cooled ICs to be very efficient.

Response with my present set-up is almost immediate if you are talking about Turbo function.

The upcoming Road Trip with give me some numbers to analyze.
 

vw_nut

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Jun 22, 2005
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Beechgrove, TN, 37018
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, 1981 VW pickup TDI Conversion, , 2000 Golf TDI,1985 Cabriolet 16V,2006 jetta
i have had Zero problems with the water to air i have in my pickup,i feel it has worked Great..no punt intended
 

jimbote

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spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
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Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
i have had Zero problems with the water to air i have in my pickup,i feel it has worked Great..no punt intended
you cooler rad is the front of a truck that weighs less than half that of a westy and the westy is an aerodynamic brick compared to your low and svelte little caddy.... my experience with the westy is that at highway speeds it's always under considerable boost and fueling ....so this puts a load on the intercooler.... perhaps the water to air heat soaks in the vanagon? ....
 

jjordan11

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Location
Lehi, UT
TDI
1988 Audi 80 quattro PD130, 1982 Westfalia TDI
I also like the simplicity of going to an air to air setup, no additional water lines, no relay or water pump to have to worry about. I have no doubts that on a smaller vehicle like a caddy, it works great.

I got the tools ordered for final disassembly of the gearbox. It's been pretty warm here, difficult to make it out to the shop. When the tools come, I'll have to get motivated again.
 
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