1975 bmw 2002

couttsdesign

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Location
SoCal
TDI
1975 BMW 2002-TDI
Thanks a ton for the wiring advice. This really helps with my confidence to keep doing what I have been doing. Greengeeker's method is how I have been going through the harness. It's a very slow and confusing process. I spent all weekend on this....just unwrapping the tape on the harness took FOREVER. I know what sensors and connectors I need to keep, but my fear is that I will somehow cut the wires somewhere along the line.

For those who have completed swaps, did you just tuck the harness underneath your center console or somewhere under the dash (such as the relay brackets and fuse box)?? I'm imagining a big nest of wires and relay boxes somehow hidden out of site.
 

couttsdesign

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Location
SoCal
TDI
1975 BMW 2002-TDI
Hey thanks for the reply, I'm trying to work out if I can fit a 1.9 tdi from a 99 beetle which I'm sure is an alh motor, the only problem is the height of the motor with the crossmember, hence the question about dry sump, in the BMW what sort of height did you have from the crossmember to the under side of the bonnet when closed originally before you modified it?

Cheers
In the 2002 the ALH height will be very close to the underside of the hood. In fact, I have to ditch the EGR/anti shudder valve as that is the highest point. Not a problem since I was planning an EGR delete anyway. The problem is that the Acme adapter rotates the engine more upright due to the starter location on the toyota transmission

If I'm crazy enough to ever do this swap again I would try to fabricate an adapter plate to use a T5 transmission. If you look at a T5 you can see the starter location is lower than the Toyota W58 transmission. I think the T5 would allow the ALH to be rotated closer to it's original rotation around 20 degrees (the acme rotates the engine more like 5 degrees). This would lower the engine height, some versions of the T5 have a really tall 5th gear which would eliminate the need for a custom rear differential (see my previous posts), the T5 has many different shifter possibilities, I think the starter location has more clearance to the turbo compared to the toyota/acme adapter setup.
 

rooney77

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
Texas
TDI
2000 Beetle
In the 2002 the ALH height will be very close to the underside of the hood. In fact, I have to ditch the EGR/anti shudder valve as that is the highest point. Not a problem since I was planning an EGR delete anyway. The problem is that the Acme adapter rotates the engine more upright due to the starter location on the toyota transmission

If I'm crazy enough to ever do this swap again I would try to fabricate an adapter plate to use a T5 transmission. If you look at a T5 you can see the starter location is lower than the Toyota W58 transmission. I think the T5 would allow the ALH to be rotated closer to it's original rotation around 20 degrees (the acme rotates the engine more like 5 degrees). This would lower the engine height, some versions of the T5 have a really tall 5th gear which would eliminate the need for a custom rear differential (see my previous posts), the T5 has many different shifter possibilities, I think the starter location has more clearance to the turbo compared to the toyota/acme adapter setup.
The T5 and T176 both have lower starter positions and the T176 is a stronger transmission (but is only a 4speed), just something to keep in mind. Using my T176 with 4.11 gears in the axles, I'll be close to 2500 rpm at 70 mph. As for the ASV/height issue, I've got whitbread modifying my intake to lower the ASV. I wanted to retain it but still have more room on top of the motor. I think overall that's a less expensive and easier way to aproach that situation and still be able to use off the shelf adapters such as acme and HPA.
 

greengeeker

Vendor
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
If I'm crazy enough to ever do this swap again I would try to fabricate an adapter plate to use a T5 transmission. If you look at a T5 you can see the starter location is lower than the Toyota W58 transmission. I think the T5 would allow the ALH to be rotated closer to it's original rotation around 20 degrees (the acme rotates the engine more like 5 degrees). This would lower the engine height, some versions of the T5 have a really tall 5th gear which would eliminate the need for a custom rear differential (see my previous posts), the T5 has many different shifter possibilities, I think the starter location has more clearance to the turbo compared to the toyota/acme adapter setup.
The T5 starter location still doesnt work due to the oil pan clearance on the TDI. I'll snap a screenshot of my model to show why. I didn't look into an aftermarket gear-drive, clockable starter which might improve things but I'm 99% sure it isn't going to work.
 

couttsdesign

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Location
SoCal
TDI
1975 BMW 2002-TDI
The T5 starter location still doesnt work due to the oil pan clearance on the TDI. I'll snap a screenshot of my model to show why. I didn't look into an aftermarket gear-drive, clockable starter which might improve things but I'm 99% sure it isn't going to work.
Thanks greengeeker. I'd love to see some pics. It may be possible to customize the oil pan to fit around the starter???
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
Springfield VA
TDI
1999.5 Jetta GLX TDI
On the wiring, unwrap everything then remove things you know you don't need. Eventually you'll be left with what you want :)

Note that the coolant temp sensor plug on the 99.5 engine is different. You can easily install the later coolant temp sensor. The 99.5 will also have a plug for a temp switch on the upper rad hose, which you won't need if you aren't installing AC.

-J
 

rooney77

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
Texas
TDI
2000 Beetle
No, just the bellhousing. After seeing what couttsdesign can do with his 3D scanner, I've given it some strong consideration to invest in one of those.
We've got a FARO arm at work but I don't think they'd like me taking 80k in equipment home for the weekend. 3d scanners are awesome.
 

G60ING

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Location
Alexandria, VA
TDI
No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
Take the engine to work :)
 

couttsdesign

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Location
SoCal
TDI
1975 BMW 2002-TDI

Greengeeker thanks for the pic....but I think it helps bring up the point I was trying to make. See here how I have rotated the motor 20 degrees and 40 degrees. These are arbitrary rotations, but I'm just trying to clarify that rotating the engine will lower the overall height (at the compromise of increasing the width???))....Also, If that's a T5 bellhousing then I really think it would work if the engine is rotated around 30 degrees. I've read that some bus conversions rotate the ALH engine as much as 50 degrees with no long term issues.
Also, digital scanners are totally AWESOME! I'll totally scan the whole engine and T5 transmission/bellhousing....but only if I ever go crazy enough to do this swap again....
 

TeckniX

Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Location
Cincy
TDI
TDI golf mkVI
Scan it all. I'm liking the engineering discussion we have here to get the engine to sit properly with the t5 transmission.
Please continue on with the discussion :)

I think you got all the wiring info you needed. Another way of doing it, is to plug everything you need on the engine and run new wires to the ecu.
THis allows you to place the wires where you want and know that everything was connected properly
 

QuantumRallySport

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Location
VA
TDI
mk2
The very basic method for trimming down your harness is to identify EVERY connector in the harness. Start with your lighting connectors and follow them up stream until you run into a splice (VW loves splices) and clip the wire going to that connector. Repeat with all the wires in the connector until the connector can uncerimoniously chucked over your shoulder. Swig of beer. Repeat on more connectors that you KNOW you won't need again. Eventually you will find the last wire that goes to that splice (you've already clipped 2 other wires at the splice for instace) so now follow the wire up stream where it will usually end up at the fuse panel or a ground. This will help you trim down the harness to circuits that are necessary for engine operation. jimbote and I are working on a how-to to help with the rest of those.
Same thing we did with our ALH harness. It is not running yet so not sure how that all worked out but we removed pretty much everything related to the interior, lighting, ABS, and AC systems.
 

couttsdesign

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Location
SoCal
TDI
1975 BMW 2002-TDI
So last weekend I spent some time going through the wiring harness removing everything I don't need. Hooked everything up, purged air from the injectors, primed the oil pump....can't get it to start.

Before I get deep into troubleshooting, I was just hoping to get some quick tips/pointers for some things to look out for. Here are some of the specifics of my setup:

-99.5 ECU and wiring harness. This is the 80 pin ecu and it has a Rocketchip stage 2 tune on it. Will this tune have any effect on getting it started? everything else is stock.
-motor is a 2001 automatic (11mm pump, no coolant glow plugs)
-Basically I'm trying to run the VW wiring and ECU as a stand alone engine management system. I don't plan on using anything for the instrument panel, except for the tachometer I hope. I am NOT using AC, Cruise, clutch or brake pedal sensors, ABS.

Since I'm running the VW wiring separately from the 2002 wiring, what's the easiest way to integrate the ignition to tell the VW harness to "wake up". What I have tried so far is to supply 12v to the VW harness simply by connecting the battery to one of the empty terminals on the fuse panel on top of the battery.

Sorry if my questions seem basic, but I don't know what I'm doing....I'll learn quickly though:)
 

greengeeker

Vendor
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
I have a post in my build thread tht shows the critical wiring for the 80 pin ecu. 12v to Black/violet & red/violet, ground to brown/red. All of these are in the large ecu connector.
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
Springfield VA
TDI
1999.5 Jetta GLX TDI
You'll want to use the clutch switch, it makes shifting much nicer. Without it the revs don't fall as fast. I think you'll need the brake sensors too or it might go into limp / high idle mode.

-J
 

greengeeker

Vendor
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
It won't Jason but you'll get a flashing glow plug light.

If you want to get by without the clutch and brake switches just apply 12v to f47 and f36 (Brake sensor and clutch sensor) and you should be good to go.
 

jackbombay

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
Location
Diesel knows best
TDI
A4 Jetta
So last weekend I spent some time going through the wiring harness removing everything I don't need. Hooked everything up, purged air from the injectors...
If the injection pump was worked on after the last time the engine ran you could have air in the pump, it can be pretty persistent, I use a lift pump to push fuel into/through the injection pump to make sure the air is out, a mighty vac works as well, or so I have read.
 

Red_Liner740

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Location
Toronto
TDI
none
invest in a mityvac vacuum bleeder or a copy and vacuum the IP until fuel starts to come out....if the IP has air in it, even though the injectors are bled the air in the Ip is not allowing the injectors to pop open.

You do amazing work, very clean, make me ashamed as to the work enviroment i'm doing my swap in. Sincle car garage, Lathe, Mill, compressor, welder, plasma cutter etc etc leaves for very little actual work. I have to push the Discovery out and only roll it in to insert or remove engine for test fitting.

Also, it seems that the 4cyl ACME kit doesnt like to play with ALH either. I ran into the exact same issue you have with my V6 R150F Acme kit, the rear coolant line wants to be in the same spot as the adapter. With the transmission bolted up i saw that there was extra adapter metal that was not necessary, i traced it out and cut it off, now the coolant pipe sits normal without any under stress on it.

I didnt want to bend or modify the line as i didnt want to compromise the integrity of the O-ring going to the thermostat housing.

Regarding no start, do you have a Vagcom (VCDS)? I'd recommend investing in it so you can see what the engine is telling you is wrong instead of guessing.
 

couttsdesign

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Location
SoCal
TDI
1975 BMW 2002-TDI
You do amazing work, very clean, make me ashamed as to the work enviroment i'm doing my swap in. Sincle car garage, Lathe, Mill, compressor, welder, plasma cutter etc etc leaves for very little actual work. I have to push the Discovery out and only roll it in to insert or remove engine for test fitting.
Thanks for the compliment. The nice equipment/workshop is where I work. You would probably feel right at home in my smallish two car garage. It's dark, cramped, dirty, and there is a storage shelf that goes all the way across at about 5 feet off the ground. I have to bend under the shelf to access half the garage. I crack my head on that fricking shelf at least once a week:mad:.
 

SuperAdellic

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Location
Beaufort, SC
TDI
None
eeeh its not that coolant flange thats the issue, its the metal return that wraps around the block.

Interesting. I am planning on buying a V6 Tacoma next summer for conversion. I believe there will not be any compromises in the strength of that return line if you modify it like greengeeker has in his Ford Ranger conversion thread. His is still supported by the mount on the side of the block and it ends at the rear of the block.
 

alphawerks

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2010
Location
Ottawa Canada
TDI
many
I had the same interferance with the adapter I made. I didn't want to adjust the coolant pipe so I filed a notch in the adapter at an angle to clear the pipe. It was close, but the pipe fit past the adapter with about 1mm clearance and still enough material to engage the threads of the bolt.

Ryan
 

Red_Liner740

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Location
Toronto
TDI
none
Yup. I did the same. When you have the adapter in your hands you realize the bit of metal removed from the plate has a negligible effect on adapters load bearing capabilities
 

couttsdesign

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Location
SoCal
TDI
1975 BMW 2002-TDI
Where do I tie in switched 12V power from the BMW to the TDI harness? That is, when the BMW key is in the "on" position and I'm getting 12v, where do I connect it to the TDI??

How is power provided to relay 109 and the glow plug relay? There is a blue wire going to both those relays from the fuse box but I'm not seeing 12v there.
 
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