1966 Volvo 122S wagon with a TDI and Toyota 5 speed

Logdog

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Location
Sandy, Oregon
TDI
None at this time, but I'm putting a TDI and Toyota 5 speed into my 122 Volvo Wagon.
I thought I'd start a post on my new project. I just picked up a very sound, 1966 Volvo 122S wagon. The motor is not a runner and I had already decided to convert this to a TDI and a Toyota five speed. Acme Adapters provides a great kit to connect the TDI to the Toyota five speed. The TDI is the way to go.

So far the project has been dealing with the underside of the car. I've just rebuilt the entire running gear with all new iPd springs and sway bars, Bilstein shocks and new bushings. I picked up a disc brake rearend from a Volvo P1800 (a Dana 30) and I'm going to gain four wheel disc brakes and a posi. The next step is the drivetrain and I've not come to a conclusion on what will be the best way to go.

I would enjoy some input on which way to go with the TDI. The 1996-98's are supposed to be the easiest to use because of the computer and IMMO stuff. I could also go with a donor car and convert the entire engine/computer/steering column/wiring harness into the car. That way I could pick up the rack and pinion steering. I could also go the mTDI route on the later engine and make it really simple. Is there anyone out there that knows how to reprogram the ECM to bypass the IMMO? Any thoughts? I look forward to your ideas.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
none, 2014 Chevy Volt, 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
An Amazon TDI would be a sweet conversion.
I'd retain its recirculating ball steering. There are too many unknown if the TDI rack will locate in a position that offers comparable geometry for steering.
The immobilizer issue of a newer donor may be avoided without need of the donor's column, by stripping the key and switch from the donor, securing it in an active condition and then tucking it up inder the dash of the Amazon. The 122's column could be retained and the ignition key used in parallel with the always active TDI key.
 

Logdog

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Location
Sandy, Oregon
TDI
None at this time, but I'm putting a TDI and Toyota 5 speed into my 122 Volvo Wagon.
That's a good idea. I'm still looking for a way to connect with someone who does reprograming on the computers and also a way to find out more about Giles' pumps in Toronto. Is there any help out there for that?
 

e*clipse

Veteran Member
Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
Is there anyone out there that knows how to reprogram the ECM to bypass the IMMO? Any thoughts?
I purchased my ECU from Germany for an ALH motor. Be sure to match the pin count - I've made that mistake.:eek:

In general, get the 028 906 021 68pin ecu for the 96-98 TDI's. You can find them in Canada and Europe reasonably cheap :rolleyes: However, you'll have to factor in the modification cost. Personally, I think the modified ECU is more valuable than a plane US version ECU.

My European one had an immobilizer, which I am having disabilized by Rocketchip. Oh, while it's there, have a stage 2 remapping, EGR delete, and control for a VNT turbo added....:D


 

jackbombay

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
Location
Diesel knows best
TDI
A4 Jetta
Logdog said:
Giles' pumps in Toronto. Is there any help out there for that?
PERFORMANCE DIESEL INJECTION LTD,.
187 STEELCASE ROAD WEST UNIT 16,
MARKHAM, ON.,
L3R 2R9

905-940-2266

gallie@rogers.com
While his pumps are quite ledgendary, and I will be installing one in a friends rabbit pickup soon, IMO, you should just keep the electronics, there is nothing to gain by losing them.
 

Logdog

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Location
Sandy, Oregon
TDI
None at this time, but I'm putting a TDI and Toyota 5 speed into my 122 Volvo Wagon.
Other than engine management variables that can be adjusted, are there other advantages to going electronic over mechanical? Is there a distinct advantage to engine management in terms of emissions, fuel economy, power produced or idiotproofing an engine?

I'm buying a Class 8 dump truck and all the advice I'm getting from my friends is to stay with the mechanical systems as it is easier and cheaper to maintain over the electronic. I'm also considering this since I'm swapping the TDI into the 1966 Volvo wagon and not a late model electronic car. Does it make sense to use the electronics? The next question is, do I even need to go TDI? I have a great Isuzu cooler for the project so would it make as much sense to simply go with a 1.9 TD, add the cooler and then play with pump and injectors? If the 1996-98 TDI's are a really superior engine I would go with it. If it is not that much better, I'm fine with rebuilding a 1.9.

I look forward to your thoughts.
 

TurbinePower

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Location
Upstate SC
TDI
None
I humbly request that you take massive numbers of photographs of this project and share them with us. :D

I'd suggest the TDI, either in -m or normal makeup, simply for the greater availability of parts both aftermarket and OEM. The 1.9AAZ parts weren't easy to find in the US to start with (though your location in Oregon probably gives you much better availability than I would have in SC...) and are only getting more scarce.
 

Logdog

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Location
Sandy, Oregon
TDI
None at this time, but I'm putting a TDI and Toyota 5 speed into my 122 Volvo Wagon.
I will get the photos out as soon as I get to that stage. I'm going to do all the running gear work first. Finding a donor car is my next step. I do tend to take a lot of photos. Thanks for the input on parts availability. I just tried to put a starter photo on here and found this note at the bottom of my page.

You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may edit your posts

I'm going to have to find out why they won't let me post photos on the site. Do you have to have made a certain number of posts before you can post photos?
 
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TurbinePower

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Location
Upstate SC
TDI
None
I think that's to keep the bandwidth down from the site. I dunno.

You can host pictures on another website, like Flickr or Photobucket, then post them here.

Put the image's URL between [img*](Image URL goes here)[/img] tags and it will show up in your post. Remove the * from the first IMG tag, I put it there to break the tag so it would show the code.

It's common courtesy to keep their size down to something that won't stretch the screen; most other websites and forums I belong to recommend no wider than 550px.

edited to remove example, to cut out irrelevant pics
 
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Logdog

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Location
Sandy, Oregon
TDI
None at this time, but I'm putting a TDI and Toyota 5 speed into my 122 Volvo Wagon.
Here goes---->

Let's see if this posts.



Sorry this didn't rotate. The cute little, arc shaped vent hole near the pan rim is why 2 of the first 4 quarts of oil I put into the car wound up on the shop floor.





When we dropped the pan this is what we found laying in the bottom of the pan. I think this confirms the need for a TDI.
 
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TurbinePower

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Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Location
Upstate SC
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None
Yow.


Yeah, I'd say it's time for a new engine. Another toss-in for the TDI is that stock versus stock, the TDI makes more horsepower, 90hp versus I think the 75 that the IDIs are rated for.
 

jackbombay

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
Location
Diesel knows best
TDI
A4 Jetta
Logdog said:
Other than engine management variables that can be adjusted, are there other advantages to going electronic over mechanical? Is there a distinct advantage to engine management in terms of emissions, fuel economy, power produced or idiotproofing an engine?
TDI will get %10-%15 better MPGs.

A 1.9 TD will cost you about as much if not more :eek: than a TDI, and then you have the problem of nobody has ever worked on them and you have to pull the crank bolt to swap timing belts (PITA) and they have a known issues of the harmonic ballanced getting lose on the end of the crank and causing all sorts of problems.

I have a AHU TDI in an 82 Westfalia, with all the electronics, I llike being able to troubleshoot the engine with my laptop, but I've never really had to do it, we bought our Jetta new and have had no issues with it that were due to the electronics, it has 112k miles on it now.

I'm buying a Class 8 dump truck and all the advice I'm getting from my friends is to stay with the mechanical systems as it is easier and cheaper to maintain over the electronic. I'm also considering this since I'm swapping the TDI into the 1966 Volvo wagon and not a late model electronic car. Does it make sense to use the electronics? The next question is, do I even need to go TDI? I have a great Isuzu cooler for the project so would it make as much sense to simply go with a 1.9 TD, add the cooler and then play with pump and injectors? If the 1996-98 TDI's are a really superior engine I would go with it. If it is not that much better, I'm fine with rebuilding a 1.9.

I look forward to your thoughts.
I hear the "You want a mechanical pump" talk all the time "Less tuff to break down!" It makes me chuckle really, I mean, should we all drive air cooled VWs then, no water pump to break, no coolant to leak, less stuff to break!

I know nothing about dump trucks though so.... I do know that around here (high altitude) all the old dump trucks blow way more smoke than the newer computer controlled ones.
 

TurbinePower

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Location
Upstate SC
TDI
None
jackbombay said:
I know nothing about dump trucks though so.... I do know that around here (high altitude) all the old dump trucks blow way more smoke than the newer computer controlled ones.
Makes me wonder how well maintained those old trucks are, and if they were ever adjusted for the higher altitude.

In proper tune and shape old trucks hardly smoke, it's when you neglect them and abuse them and let things slide for an extra 50-100k that they really start belching it out.

That being said, you probably won't get as much power out of an older mechanical truck as you will the newer computerized once, but that's the march of time. You trade durability and simplicity for power and economy.
 

Logdog

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Location
Sandy, Oregon
TDI
None at this time, but I'm putting a TDI and Toyota 5 speed into my 122 Volvo Wagon.
The older trucks are often very well maintained. The biggest reason is that the fully electronic trucks require going to a dealer's shop at a higher cost than a small local shop. The older mechanical engines are about 1/3 the cost to maintain as the new "smog" engines and they get better fuel economy and are far more drivable. The black smoke is very often because it is a truck that has been pumped up and the driver has his foot in it. You need to drive them right up to the power that you need at the moment and not bury it in the floorboards. Many of the major fleets run their trucks with less than professional drivers and trade them off just before the run out of warrantee. The smaller professionals keep their trucks in shape because it is their livelihood and maintenance is far cheaper than downtime. A buddy of mine hauls longhaul freight and is running a 1988 Volvo truck with a Cummins 400. It looks like new, is running about 500-550 HP and out runs nearly any truck on the highways. Jay does this all at about 8 mpg. It's a matter of good maintenance, knowing your truck and knowing how to drive. Start talking to the longtime drivers and I think you will find that most would vastly prefer an older truck with a mechanical injection system. It's the same thing that we're all trying to do here; create the best vehicle we can that is powerful, gets good mileage, is reliable and still a kick to drive. Big or small, it's all the same.
 

jackbombay

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
Location
Diesel knows best
TDI
A4 Jetta
Well, if you get a TDI then make it mechanical you'll be out an extra $1000 bucks for the M-pump vs. just using what was on there, but you could sell that for ~$400.
 

Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
I'd stay electronic unless you want no mess with the cables.. and stay away of the AAZ, the head barely seals even with stock 75hp..
 

Logdog

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Location
Sandy, Oregon
TDI
None at this time, but I'm putting a TDI and Toyota 5 speed into my 122 Volvo Wagon.
Well, those are good ideas. Now the question is the choice between PD or pump.

This may be a bit off topic, but it relates to what I said about truckers and how they maintain their trucks. My buddy makes an interesting suggestion here that may also be available for smaller vehicles.

One other thing relative to your truck that you may have got. I have early on used these Centramatic wheel balancers for my truck. I had them installed for all three axles on the tractor and the theory worked great. Truck tires are a hard thing to keep in balance and in round. Centramatic is an earlier brand which has been very popular with repair shops and truck dealerships. Centramatic uses an aluminum tube with an oil mixture along with # 8 shot. They have worked very well but as many of these earlier units have lost their fluid and/or have had the shot finally cut grooves in the aluminum tube, many truck owners have had disaster with them such as I had during my last run. I wrecked a very good Michelin steer tire while out with no recourse other than an expensive replacement during Memorial day weekend. The fluid was lost and the shot immediately went to one side and wrecked the tire and I had no where to stop in Ut and Nm to correct the matter while under a government oversize load to the uranium plant. Balance Masters uses a similar tube design but with mercury in the tube which does not wear the inside of the tube and gives a quicker and more balanced affect to the wheel. I installed a set of them on my trailer Michelin's which were partly worn along with a few small flats from having to run the brakes when empty during quick traffic slow downs on city by passes. Suddenly the traffic begins to slow down during a rush hour and additionally, idiots will continue to swerve right in front and also grab their brakes when they realize a sudden slow down is in progress. These Balance Masters are wearing these trailer tires perfectly round regardless of the few small flats. That is an accomplishment to be sure. I installed them on the drive shafts also which has well nigh eliminated the drive train noise coming up through the stick. They also make them to go on a crankshaft before the damper is put on. Balance your engine and wheels and you will save fuel. Things that are out of round and balance create resistance.
 
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RoundHouse

Veteran Member
Joined
May 23, 2001
Location
Ga USA
Alot of the people who run large tires (38-42 inch) on their Jeeps and trail trucks, use golf balls in the tires to balance them.
Ive seen people Use BBs in smaller tires, but you have to use nitrogen instead of regular air, the water in regular air will cause the BBs to rust and stick together.
 

RoundHouse

Veteran Member
Joined
May 23, 2001
Location
Ga USA
Logdog said:
I'm buying a Class 8 dump truck and all the advice I'm getting from my friends is to stay with the mechanical systems as it is easier and cheaper to maintain over the electronic. .
Ive owned several trucks, mech injected and electronic.

The electronic engines left me walking several times, once on the Lake Pontchatrain bridge, (9 miles long) because the computer THOUGHT the coolant was low.

Even if the coolant was low, I almost got killed because of some stupid computer.

Doesnt matter the brand, although Cummins is cheaper to repair.
get the older mech injected engine, they never left me stranded, I once drove one with a split and leaking injector line 300 miles back home.
 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
122s 2 TDI....yeah!!!

Awesome!!!....my friend Dan is giving me Two 66' 122s "amazon" wagons ....and I have been contemplating this swap for months now.....sweet!!! the dark one is very solid




 
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jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
No doubt on the 5 inline....however I'm ALH "poor" right now (aka drowning in ALH engines) .....so looks like a four cylinder for now.....the dark blue/black car has a rebuilt engine so if anyone is looking for a good running gasser "INVOLVO" engine....shoot me a line!!!.....
 

TurbinePower

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Location
Upstate SC
TDI
None
jimbote said:
No doubt on the 5 inline....however I'm ALH "poor" right now (aka drowning in ALH engines) .....so looks like a four cylinder for now.....the dark blue/black car has a rebuilt engine so if anyone is looking for a good running gasser "INVOLVO" engine....shoot me a line!!!.....
I wish I were "drowning" in ALH engines. I keep toying with dropping an I4 subframe and 01A transmission in the Syncro to do a TDI swap without adapter plates or custom brackets... If I had the TDI I'd do it.
 

markward

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Location
Loxahatchee, Florida
TDI
82 Vanagon and 2011 JSW
My first car was a 65 volvo 122s. Unless the 66 was different, good luck getting the ignition switch out. You will see what I am talking about when you go to remove the coil. I have an ALH in my vanagon. Old school meets new school. I am using the original vanagon cluster. The 98 New Beetle did not have immobilizer. The ECU is an 80 pin. For sure a complete donor vehicle. There is plenty of room under the hood of a 122 for even a V8. You will need to add some auxilary fuses. If I remember, my 122 had 4 fuses and one was missing. I think it is a great idea. I wish you were my neighbor. The driveshaft bearing was a poor design. It may not be able to take the extra torque. You may want to explore a more modern bearing and driveshaft. :D
 

hardhatz

Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Location
Riverside, CA
TDI
not yet
Logdog,

How is progress going on this? Did you stay with the computer controlled pump?

I am looking for a 122S wagon myself... Anybody know of one?
I already have a 98 AHU..
 

Logdog

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Location
Sandy, Oregon
TDI
None at this time, but I'm putting a TDI and Toyota 5 speed into my 122 Volvo Wagon.
I'm still here!

Well, I finally have nearly everything needed to start the swap. Due to timing, the economy, good luck and interplanetary alignment, I came across a very nice VW 1.6 turbo diesel donor car. It looks like I will be saving the desire for the higher horsepower PD motor for either another car or a later upgrade. Right now I have every single part that can be replaced in the suspension and drivetrain of the Volvo. I'm lookin gfor a source for a Toyota R151 transmission which came from Celicas and 2-wheel drive rigs running a turbo'ed 22R motor. If anyone has a lead on one of these, please let me know. I'm going to connect with Jeff Kerr at Acme Adapters for the parts to connect to the Toyota. I could probably do it myself, but I have even less time than I do money right now. I will set the engine, install the Isuzu IC, hook up the hydraulics and build the drivelines. Once I get to do a quick test drive of the engine and stock suspension, I'll install all of the new running gear and suspension parts. This should get the blood pumping enough to tackle the restoration of the bodywork. I'll start posting photos as soon as I can. Right now the preliminary measurements show that the 1.6 engine will be a slam dunk to install. The amount of room is good and the engine is about 5 inches shorter than the original Volvo B20. I will be having a Volvo yardsale soon. Let me know if you need anything!

I must also say that I've been very impressed with the old Volvo engines. There is one great You Tube video of a 1967 2 door with a built 2 liter engine that is putting out just south of 500 hp. I was unbelieving until I finally saw the bottom end of a Volvo B20 recently. They had a five main bearing crankshaft and many forged parts. The main and rod bearings looked to be as big or bigger than those in a small block chevy. I must say that there was a part of me that wanted to play with the old Swedish iron.
 

Dougalicious

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2007
Location
Florida
TDI
None :(
Any idea how much the wagon weighs? I tend to picture the cars from back then as all being metal bricks, so I'm wondering if the 4cyl will be enough to move it or if something with a little more oomph would be better.
 

TurbinePower

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Location
Upstate SC
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None
Dougalicious said:
Any idea how much the wagon weighs? I tend to picture the cars from back then as all being metal bricks, so I'm wondering if the 4cyl will be enough to move it or if something with a little more oomph would be better.
A quick perusal of the 'net gives me figures between 2400 and 2600 pounds. Not too much heavier than a VW TD, actually.
 

Logdog

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Location
Sandy, Oregon
TDI
None at this time, but I'm putting a TDI and Toyota 5 speed into my 122 Volvo Wagon.
Better is a relative term. Sure more horsepower is always tempting. Hell, my GMC crewcab with the Duramax is putting out over 410 rear wheel horsepower and it's a kick to drive. It gets 18 mpg even when I'm loaded and hauling a load of tools. What I want now is a classy little commuter that is a recycling experiment that could get me 40 mpg. Better can mean a lot of things.

I am not sure of the exact weight of the wagon. I could have easily run it over a scales near my shop when I towed it home. I'm sure the specs are out there somewhere on its actual weight. It is about the size of a VW Jetta wagon, however. Volvos are extremely tough cars. That made most people think that they were therefore heavy cars. From what I've heard in general, older Volvos are lighter than they appear to be. The 122 models in all its variations came with engines that were from 85 hp/108 lb.ft. to 130 hp/130 lb.ft. in the Amazon 123 GT's. To give you an idea of how tough they were, the Volvo 122's were driven by the original owners an average of about 17-18 years. At that time over 90% of the roads in Sweden were gravel roads.

I realize that the 1.6 turbo diesel at only 68 hp/98 lb.ft. is not going to be a barn burner. Even intercooling and tweaking the pump and injectors will only bring me up to about 80 hp/110 lb.ft. Still not a race horse, but it is getting close to the smallest 1800cc Volvo engine specs. Remember that we're talking about diesel horsepower and torque here and not gasoline power. You can't quite compare the two.

While I do love my hot rods, and I've had some pretty nice ones, this is to be built as nearly as I can to what Volvo might have built in 1966. Everything I own is diesel now so the VW 1.6 will fit right in. I'm more interested in creating a really unique, fun to drive restoration that should get around 40 mpg. It will also be used in my business as a rolling advertisement.

My original idea was to buy a rolled over Jetta or Passat wagon with the 130 or 150 hp PD engine to use as the donor car. If the 1.6 TDI works out, I'm thinking of locating a Volvo 122 2 door coupe and going the full blown late model package. If you want to see one of these in a 2 door version that has been built, go to You Tube and watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBUujJgnVUs You need to remember that this is a Volvo four cylinder that is running fuel injection, turbo and intercooler. They can really build these since the bottom end is stronger than a small block Chevy.
 
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