17978 (P1570) Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer

ymz

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Location
Between Toronto & Montreal
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2003 Jetta TDI Wagon, 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon
"17978 (P1570) Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer"

What does this stored code mean?

Car runs just fine, but when it was checked recently, this came up...

Yuri.
 

Uwe

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Lansdale, PA, USA
Re: 17978 (P1570) Engine Start Blocked by Immobili

Means at some point, you tried to start the engine but the immobilizer said "No!". Not uncommon. No cause for concern unless it comes back regularly or engine won't start.

-Uwe-
 

jsrmonster

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Re: 17978 (P1570) Engine Start Blocked by Immobili

Hi,

If car starts ok, it's not a problem. Probably tripped the code on a cold day with hard starting problems and low voltage.

Jeff
 

TheTDIWagonGuy

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Location
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Black 2003 Bora Wagon TDI
I am having the same problem but the car will not start. I also cannot erase that code.

Any ideas?:confused:
 

Sebastian

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Location
Magdeburg, Germany
Does the engine start at all and shuts down immediately again, or doesn't it even start? Checked relay 109? Are the instrument cluster immobilizer meas. blocks plausible?
 

TheTDIWagonGuy

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The engine starts and shuts down 2 secs later. Have not checked 109. How do you do that? Would that stop you from clearing a code? I have not checked meas blocks in instrument cluster. What shoud they read?
 

TheTDIWagonGuy

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Instument Measureing Blocks:

20 VW,Z6,Z0,C0
21 00,37,29,N/A
22 0,1,1,3
23 1,1,1,6
24 0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0
25 2,N/A,N/A,N/A
 
Last edited:

Sebastian

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Magdeburg, Germany
No clue why, but it looks like your ECU lost it's adaptation to the instrument cluster. Not 100% sure, but your 2003 model should have IMMO-3, right?

Immo-3 knows your car's VIN. Access 17-Instruments (or separate 25-Immobilizer on vehicles that are set up that way) and look at the first "Extra" field.

If you see something like: "Immo-ID VWZ7Z0W0648696" You've got Immo-2 (or maybe even Immo-1 in earlier non-US models).

If you see something like "WVZKB58001H231169 VWZ7Z0W0648696" You've got
Immo-3. The first 17-digit string is the VIN. The second 14-digit string in the Immo-ID.
 

TheTDIWagonGuy

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It is Immob III. :( Does that mean that I need to get my SKC code to set it up? Is the SKC code the 7 digit number that was on my key tag when I bought the car?
 

Sebastian

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TheTDIWagonGuy said:
Does that mean that I need to get my SKC code to set it up?
Yes.

TheTDIWagonGuy said:
Is the SKC code the 7 digit number that was on my key tag when I bought the car?
Nope, 7-digit SKC's were never supplied on key tags, those always had 4-digit SKC's. Remember, the 7-digit SKC is only an encrypted 4-digit SKC.

BTW: Could you please post a complete Auto-Scan?
 
Last edited:

Uwe

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No, 2003 cars did not come with SKCs on any tags.

Try cold-booting the car. Remove both battery cables from the battery. Short the battery cables together (away from the battery) for aboyt 15 seconds. Reconnect the battery. No guarantees, but I've seen this fix similar problems and it doesn't cost much.

-Uwe-
 

TheTDIWagonGuy

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Thats odd that I have a small sticker on the back of my key code tag that has 7 digits. It is 2 numbers over 5 numbers with no letters if that makes a difference.
 

TheTDIWagonGuy

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Uwe.... YOU ROCK!!!:D

I LOVE simple solutions.

Took the battery leads off connected them together for 30sec just to be sure ;), put the leads back on and....:D

Thanks!
 

TheTDIWagonGuy

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Sebastian said:
Then these are 2 separate numbers, not one 7-digit one. Actually these numbers are used to cut keys, so not immobilizer related.
OK.. Now I know. I thought the code on the other side was for the key.

Thanks for your help Sebastian. It is very much appreciated. :D
 

j40hnw

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Aug 11, 2007
Location
uk
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other
Uwe said:
No, 2003 cars did not come with SKCs on any tags.

Try cold-booting the car. Remove both battery cables from the battery. Short the battery cables together (away from the battery) for aboyt 15 seconds. Reconnect the battery. No guarantees, but I've seen this fix similar problems and it doesn't cost much.

-Uwe-
I am having the same problem on a 1.8 N/A petrol golf:confused:
Would doing the battery cable shorting help me?
 

Nihilator

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TheTDIWagonGuy said:
Thats odd that I have a small sticker on the back of my key code tag that has 7 digits. It is 2 numbers over 5 numbers with no letters if that makes a difference.
It doesn't. VW did not distribute 4- or 5-digit SKCs in any form after 2001. You *could* get a 7-digit encoded SKC from the dealership, but they were never printed on tags for the customer. That stopped in 2005.

I was going to suggest the same thing Uwe did. If that doesn't work, you can always recode your keys, but you would need to have your SKC retrieved in order to do that. Or have the dealership do it.

Have you done anything funky to the car recently? Repairs? Let it sit for a long time? Anything?

--Chris
 

MOGolf

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The other way this could be solved on pre I-3 cars is to go to ECM adaptation channel 00, read, save, ok. This will resync the ECM with the pre I-3 immobilizer.
 

raktym

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nothern cal
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03 Jetta two of them
I also have this code stored. The car starts and runs fine. I had two keys cut and they opened the door ok:D but after I started the engine with one the engine shut down after a few seconds:( . The keys were not programed because I do not have the SKC. Its an 03 jetta
 

penclnck

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May 9, 2001
Location
Knoxville, TN
raktym said:
I also have this code stored. The car starts and runs fine. I had two keys cut and they opened the door ok:D but after I started the engine with one the engine shut down after a few seconds:( . The keys were not programed because I do not have the SKC. Its an 03 jetta
Then your system is working to design. New keys, or any key for that matter, should not work UNTIL they are adapted, and all keys have to be done at the same time... again, by design.

I'll toss in another bit of info for this thread... early immobilizer systems in Beetles used IDC terminals and this can end up causing problems. T32a/2 and T32a/17 are the terminals for the reader coil at the instrument cluster, T32a is the green plug. By removing those terminal ends from the terminal housing (just need a fine pick to depress the barb so the terminal can be pulled out) and then use a pair of needle nose piers to "crush" the area around the IDC so that there is a better electricial contact. This has fixed a lot of random no start issues with the earlier Immob II Beetles (2000 - 2002ish).

Also, having any kind of RFID device close to the ignition can/will cause problems. The classic case I ran into was a lady's Jetta that at times would start then die a couple of times in a row, then fire up without issue and not have the problem return for days/weeks. Every time I had the car, never could duplicate the problem. She had an Exxon Speed Pass on her keychain but I only receive the VW key by itself. Once I learned about the Speed Pass, I had her take it off her keyring and it never did it again.
 

ecmbuster

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penclnck, good post and here's another one to add to the list. I have tested these before. A pass card with RFID behaves the same. Ask Bruce at Ross-Tech, he seen this live while I was teaching the VW/Audi CAN class with Immobilizer.
Just placing the card beside the key and a start would set the lamp and fault. If I held it the right way, there was a no start. That test was on a 2004 R32 and a 2004 A4Q

Anything RFID, even another key will "disturb" the reading process.

Most times when I see that type of fault and the components are NOT defective, I'll delete all of the keys adaptations and relearn them back into the system.

That's worked very well so far.

As for adapting keys with limited tools, an programmer does a good job to gather the data. It's the de-encryption that needs to be done first. The VCDS came last.
 

BeartheBruce

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ecmbuster said:
penclnck A pass card with RFID behaves the same. Ask Bruce at Ross-Tech, he seen this live while I was teaching the VW/Audi CAN class with Immobilizer.
Just placing the card beside the key and a start would set the lamp and fault. If I held it the right way, there was a no start. That test was on a 2004 R32 and a 2004 A4Q

Anything RFID, even another key will "disturb" the reading process.
ECMbuster is telling the truth. I had a hard time believing that a pass card would mess up the immo - but it did. Remove the card and all was fine.

Welome aboard ECMbuster!
 

Maven

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TheTDIWagonGuy said:
Uwe.... YOU ROCK!!!:D

I LOVE simple solutions.

Took the battery leads off connected them together for 30sec just to be sure ;), put the leads back on and....:D

Thanks!
I'm been providing technical support to just about everything that has an electrical pulse for 15 years and I always laugh at these high tech solutions. Reminds me of my Sony camcorder E:61:00 errors where you need to whack it hard a couple times to unfreeze the lens so it can focus again.
 

maherc84

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Atlanta, GA
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2002 VW CABRIOLET
my immobilizer issues

I have about had it up to my eyeballs with my 2002 VW Cabrio's Immobilizer. The car was working fine the other day. I went to go start it, it would turn, crank and then immediately die. I kept trying... Eventually it would turn, turn, turn and never crank. So what did I do? I took it to the dealership and they said it was the immobilizer and that they needed to reprogram my keys... fine. They charged me $120.00 to reprogram my keys and then called me to let me know that they programmed both keys (one of which I thought they said could not be rogrammed) and told me that my car would not start. When I asked him what it was doing, he said it was turning over but would not start. I knew that this started to happen earlier when I was trying to start the car when the immobilizer had kicked in, but I just figured it to be part of the problem as well. I took my vag-com up to the dealership last night, tried to start the car with what used to be my master key, and guess what? I get 17978 P1570 - Engine blocked by immobilizer. Go figure, right? I cleared the code and tried the other key(the one I was told could not be programmed) and did not get an immobilizer code, but the car still would turn but never start. The techs notes on my receipt, states that the cars timing was perfect, that it has spark, and it has fuel, but he doesnt know how much fuel it's getting. At this point I am totally frustrated because the dealership is telling me it is going to be another $106.00 to look at the car and if he goes over his time and cant figure it out it will be another $106.00. So here I am with a car, still parked at the dealership, when you use one key it throws an immobilizer code, the other key does not (the one I was told could not be programmed), the car has spark, timing is fine and it has fuel, just not sure how much fuel and I dont have the money to waste on him "trying" to figure out what is wrong with my car, especially if it is going to cost me $200 just to find the problem. HELP!
 

AndyBees

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Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
So, strange that I stumbled onto this thread. Back in February, I upgraded to the VCDS software and interface. However, it was only this past Saturday that I actually installed the software and atempted to run VCDS (Vag Com) with some "self-inflicted" problems.

Anyway, tonight I got it going...........low and behold! Immoblizer fault code was there right out of the blue!

So, maybe those few "hard starts" in the last few months may explain the immoblizer fault code........... I just assumed the hard starting was because of "very" limited driving since I retired (love driving my Vanagon, soon to have a TDI engine). (The 109 Relay was replaced back in early March as a pre-caution/preventive maintenance!)
 

TDI_Votex

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TheTDIWagonGuy said:
Instument Measureing Blocks:

20 VW,Z6,Z0,C0
21 00,37,29,N/A
22 0,1,1,3
23 1,1,1,6
24 0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0
25 2,N/A,N/A,N/A
I was questionning the value of 2 in field #1 of mesuring block 25. I always tought that this was a Yes/No field. But the label files say that the value of 2 is "Comm. with W-Line, and 1 was "Comm. with CAN-Bus". Is this a redundant communication system? Can someone at Ross-Tech explain a bit more, maybe with year milestone of VW changing the comm path between ECU and cluster?

This might explain my problem adapting a new cluster, as I have a 1 in that field (2003 Jetta), and no fault in any other controler of the car.
 

ecmbuster

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Location
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maherc84 said:
I have about had it up to my eyeballs with my 2002 VW Cabrio's Immobilizer. The car was working fine the other day. I went to go start it, it would turn, crank and then immediately die. I kept trying... Eventually it would turn, turn, turn and never crank. So what did I do? I took it to the dealership and they said it was the immobilizer and that they needed to reprogram my keys... fine. They charged me $120.00 to reprogram my keys and then called me to let me know that they programmed both keys (one of which I thought they said could not be programmed) and told me that my car would not start.
There are times when corrupt data gets written into the Immobilizer box and trashes the keys out of the system. The worst case will always be battery power or hard cranking, yes expect the Immobilizer to misbehave.

maherc84 said:
When I asked him what it was doing, he said it was turning over but would not start. I knew that this started to happen earlier when I was trying to start the car when the immobilizer had kicked in, but I just figured it to be part of the problem as well.
Again, low battery voltage or a starter (connections, powers and grounds) can set this fault easily. Do a complete electical test on the battery, alternator and starter BEFORE condemning the Immobilizer.

maherc84 said:
I took my vag-com up to the dealership last night, tried to start the car with what used to be my master key, and guess what? I get 17978 P1570 - Engine blocked by immobilizer. Go figure, right? I cleared the code and tried the other key(the one I was told could not be programmed) and did not get an immobilizer code, but the car still would turn but never start. The techs notes on my receipt, states that the cars timing was perfect, that it has spark, and it has fuel, but he doesnt know how much fuel it's getting. At this point I am totally frustrated because the dealership is telling me it is going to be another $106.00 to look at the car and if he goes over his time and cant figure it out it will be another $106.00. So here I am with a car, still parked at the dealership, when you use one key it throws an immobilizer code, the other key does not (the one I was told could not be programmed), the car has spark, timing is fine and it has fuel, just not sure how much fuel and I dont have the money to waste on him "trying" to figure out what is wrong with my car, especially if it is going to cost me $200 just to find the problem. HELP!
In your case, you didn't have a very intelligent technician working on the Cabrio. This is now back to basics. You need three things to light up that engine.
1. Spark (at the correct time of course)
2. Fuel air mixture (hope the exhaust isn't plugged)
3. Compression (test that including the timing belt)

In this case and at that cost, the immobilizer PIN should have been given to you. That way you can adapt the keys on your own.

I believe that box is behind the instrument cluster and I have opened them to acquire the PIN for customers. You can of course read the eeprom and send it for de-encryption.
The 2001 model looked like this when I replaced the data with a Euro version.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/tj0ztim0mnz/AnyC00159.GIF
 
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