12mm pump head on 10mm pump

[bturpin]

I've been thinking of throwing a 12mm head onto my 10mm ahu pump. I already put r520 nozzles on and I already need more power. I want all the fuel I can get before I get a tune. What do you guys think of this. I've read it can be done but I couldn't find any info on if it will really work and reliably. Is there more to just swapping heads? Or should cam plates be changed as well?

 

[Drivbiwire]

Yes there is more to it!

There are several shim points that MUST be adjusted, failure to do so WILL DESTROY THE PUMP and take out the motors timing belt system.

I would suggest having DFIS do the swap, but first contact them and make sure its something they are willing to do for you.

Also, you may need heavier duty springs, but I think the originals provided its correctly shimmed up will work for you.

No short cuts will save you a small fortune...

 

[bturpin]

So then what if I were to use a de143 cam plate and an 11mm head? Would this have similar output to an 11mm oem pump?

 

[jimbote]

Yes there is more to it!

There are several shim points that MUST be adjusted, failure to do so WILL DESTROY THE PUMP and take out the motors timing belt system.

I would suggest having DFIS do the swap, but first contact them and make sure its something they are willing to do for you.

Also, you may need heavier duty springs, but I think the originals provided its correctly shimmed up will work for you.

No short cuts will save you a small fortune...

meh..... i built my 10/12mm hybrid pump over four years and 80k miles ago and it's still going strong in my TDI swapped tacoma .... maybe i just got lucky but it starts right up every time and delivers low thirties FE with power to boot .... lesson: the sky will not fall if you "bench build" your own hybrid pump, just take a little care ... it may not be 100% optimized but it won't cost you a fortune either

 

[[486]]

pretty much set up the shims so the plunger doesn't bottom out at TDC and it'll run

you're going to want a tune to reduce the fueling pretty quick though
unless you're one of those people who advertise for the emissions laws

 

[bturpin]

Jimbote, how do you like the setup? Was it a decent power increase over stock? How's the smoke level? Another thing I was wondering was if the 12mm head gave more fuel pressure than an 11mm oem. Do you have to be cautious at higher rpms?

 

[jimbote]

Jimbote, how do you like the setup? Was it a decent power increase over stock? How's the smoke level? Another thing I was wondering was if the 12mm head gave more fuel pressure than an 11mm oem. Do you have to be cautious at higher rpms?

seems to run fine but i have nothing else to compare with as it's the only pump i've ever had on the truck... larger plunger=more fuel in the same timing window=less smoke per fuel delivery... i'm oversimplifying of course but you get the idea... as far as rpm's my truck rarely sees 4k rpm... it drives like a lightly modified cummins with best torque/power between 1800-3500 rpm

 

[bturpin]

So Jim where did you purchase a 12mm from? I've looked but I can't seem to find one. The only ones I've found are on dssr, and prothes junk one.

 

[jimbote]

So Jim where did you purchase a 12mm from? I've looked but I can't seem to find one. The only ones I've found are on dssr, and prothes junk one.

mine is a japanese denso unit scavenged from a mitsubishi engine originally installed in a cat skid steer ... at one time i had at least half a dozen of these but sold or gave away the remainder ... iirc dfis said they could get these for under $300 ... but i have since lost the info on the pumps

 

[[486]]

Mine's chinese, but that's worthless info as I haven't drilled out my nozzles to be able to run it yet.

 

[mk1-83]

mine 12mm pumphead come off a vw lt 2.8 m-tdi 4 cyl.
running good with the DE143 cam plate and 11bar pump case pressure at 2000 rpm with 11mm timing systeem.

 

[Mikkijayne]

I have a complete Iveco 12mm pump for sale if you're interested?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151999216677

 

[bturpin]

I have a complete Iveco 12mm pump for sale if you're interested?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151999216677

If anything I would be interested in the head only, but I'm looking to buy a brand new one.

 

[mk1-83]

better to buy a oem 12mm pumphead used, because a new one cost atleast 550 euro.

 

[poisas]

mine 12mm pumphead come off a vw lt 2.8 m-tdi 4 cyl.
running good with the DE143 cam plate and 11bar pump case pressure at 2000 rpm with 11mm timing systeem.

how you set up the 11bar pump case pressure ? how did you measure 11bar ?

 

[mk1-83]

On THE back Side of THE pump un screw à m8 bolt then adapter screw in
Then rev to 2000 rpm and adjust THE pumpcase pressure valve
1mm deeper is 1 bar use clycerine file pressure gauge 0-15 bar

 

[Satiro]

On THE back Side of THE pump un screw à m8 bolt then adapter screw in
Then rev to 2000 rpm and adjust THE pumpcase pressure valve
1mm deeper is 1 bar use clycerine file pressure gauge 0-15 bar

Hi Mk1-83,
can you elaborate that please? I have installed 11mm pump parts, adjusted K and KF setting following bosch dealer indications but never heard about raising the pump case pressure that way... i have a glycerine pressure gauge that i can use it for, what's that M8 bolt?

Thanks

 

[mk1-83]

bolt sits on back of the pump case on the engine side. remove it and install a banjo bolt to it an hook up to a oil feed pressure gauge.

raise the case pressure when youre have trouble to meet injection timing vagcom engine block 4.

 

[Satiro]

THANKS very good info really!

I will test it and will set to 11bar. I found timing is not perfectly stable since 270bar pop injectors, de143 camplate,etc.

Thanks again!

 

[mk1-83]

Race520 do not need so high pop pressure set then at 240-320.

 

[Satiro]

Thanks for the tip... what improvement will give me less pop pressure with race520? I've notice way less smoke since adjusted to 270bar

Anyway i will change nozzles surely when the new turbo i have is installed.. what nozzles do you think are best for around 240hps?

Thanks =)

 

[mk1-83]

for youre 11mm and De143 hflox.280 are nice

 

[bturpin]

So I'm going to order a complete 12mm pump. I'm going to swap the whole head assembly and the camplate.
What I'm not sure about is if I should put the 12mm springs in as well. I also heard the 10mm delivery valves flow more than the 12 ones. You guys know?

 

[Mikkijayne]

The delivery valves on the Iveco pump are 2.5mm, the same as the 10mm pump and also the 11mm Renault head. The 11mm mk4 pump valves are only 1.5mm.

 

[mk1-83]

I swap hole 12mm head with springs and THE De143 camplate to mine pump

 

[bturpin]

I swap hole 12mm head with springs and THE De143 camplate to mine pump

Do you have any info on the camplate from the 12mm?

 

[mk1-83]

THE 12mm have original à camplate with little more agressieve lift .
THE de143 is oem 11mm camplate and is proven to be THE best camplate

 

[mk1-83]

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=369604

Link to THE 12mm oem camplate

 

[[486]]

The delivery valves on the Iveco pump are 2.5mm, the same as the 10mm pump and also the 11mm Renault head. The 11mm mk4 pump valves are only 1.5mm.

Is this the measurement between the collar and the tapered seat?

If so, then the 11mm mk4 DVs would be making for more fuel flow, as they would be allowing for less expansion in the injector line after the injection event.

 

[Mikkijayne]

Diameter of the hole in the end