11 Jetta TDI fuel failure

[planger]

Where to start... My wife and I recently got rid of our POS Ford escape. We owned that lovely piece of engineering for about 14 months, during which time we became very good friends with our service writer and manager. This went through a multitude of issues from a leaky sunroof to cam timing solenoids and the list goes on. So after months and months, hours at car dealerships. Testing every thing from a Honda Accord to a Subaru Legacy, I convince my wife to look at a VW.

Now I have owned VW's off and on since I was 17 years old. So I take her to the local dealer that has some Jetta's in stock, just to have her sit in one. Since they had a 4k second sticker on the TDI, we knew we weren't going to buy it from there. I found a dealership in Seattle about 100 mi from our house that was a pleasure to deal with. Gave us more money for our trade than anybody else had offered, nice people. www.cartervw.com you can check them out if you are around Seattle. No second sticker, so I thought this will be great. She drives it loves it. We wait for the one with the navigation. I'm thinking this is awesome I'm thrilled with the Kessy system, she loves the foglights and bluetooth, this is great.

Cut to 16 days later. I go to run to the bank and BANG, crank but no start. I push the starter button again. No start. It finally starts and so I take off make it around .75 mi down the road and the glow plug light is on the dash...FLASHING. WTH?! I call the dealership service that we got it from, they tell me to get it to a dealer right away.

They give me the number for VW roadside and I get the car towed. Really??! I feel like a total tool when I pull back up to the house. 1445 mi, and its leaving on a flat bed tow truck.. I mean I've had VW's before and I know they tend to be finicky, but come on.

Cut to four hours later, Standing in the service department of the dealership that we first had looked at the TDI's at. When the service writer tells me that we got bad fuel. Bad fuel?! really, I have a diesel truck and filled it from the same pump same week and that's what we drove to the dealership. So i'm not buying it. He then tells me that the fuel pump is destroyed and that they are waiting to hear from corporate VW to see what the repair they will authorize. What they will authorize? its a brand new car. It has had fuel 3 times. (Sitting on nearly a full tank, she drove 150mi since last fill up at a 76 station.)

24hrs later the service writer tells me that the contaminates in the fuel were from the fuel pump destroying itself. Oh and there was water in there too. So I really can't get a straight story at all. I have since spoken to the service manager for the dealership. He assured me that it was not the fuel we put into the car that was the issue, and VW would be covering the full replacement of every component of the fuel system. This repair is $9,000

My question is, should we be satisfied with the repair? Should we ask VW for a new car full knowing that we could have this same issue with another TDI?? She loves the car but is scared of having to worry where she gets her fuel, since we were told to not put any form of bio diesel in the car...She has opened a claim with VWofA and the NHTSA, reporting the problem.

Has anybody gotten anything like a complementary extended warranty? Just looking for a little help here on what to do/ask for.

Thanks!
Pete

 

[pipes p]

our worst nightmare realized! sorry to hear about your fuel pump. ithought i read on other threads about this prblem on the 09/10 tdis and vw did extend the warranty for some after repairs! i may be wrong, and im horrible at finding old threads. hopefully others will read this and can be more helpfull than me. best of luck. p.s. do not except the "bad fuel" excuse BS.

 

[DieselNerd]

I don't buy the "bad fuel" argument. These cars have a fuel filter, and most diesels have a water separator (not sure about the TDI).

Contamination and water should never reach the HPFP if the filters do their job.

 

[LordHz]

I don't buy the bad fuel argument either, it sounds like a defective fuel pump ate itself and bombed the engine. Now depending on how poorly they designed the fuel pump the lubricating qualities of US diesel could theoretically be part of the problem, HOWEVER, VW should have had the Bosch engineers redesign the part to handle US diesel. Please keep us posted, I am a first time TDI owner and I have already seen/heard of far too many issues. The only issue that I have experienced is the DPF not completing a burn-off cycle during my normal driving and causing the little DPF light to come one. Next time I drive it I make sure to drive for 10 minutes at >2K RPM and so far no issues.

 

[planger]

An update. Everything that was touched by fuel in the car is being replaced. The service manager told me that the bill he is submitting to VW warranty is right about $9,000

They told me that there was rust colored shavings in the fuel filter. Well, let me correct that. This is what they told me on the 3rd excuse/explanation.

They told me that there is a possibility that the car sat in a VW depot for up to 9 months before it was shipped to a dealer. If it was in a humid environment, such as Florida as he suggested, There could be condensation in the tank that was enough to cause the pump to destroy its self.

The dealer said also to never put any form of biodiesel into the car. ***? What am I supposed to do if there is no other option? Walk to get pure diesel?

Dear VW, Please make your product work right. Or at least with fuel that is available.

 

[DC-IT]

Just this past Monday I had my #2 Cylinder Fuel Injector Pipe replaced by my dealer.
My TDI was leaking Diesel and the turbo lost it's boost and the Glow Plug kept flashing.
I had 11,300 KM on my TDI when this happened.

OTOH my 2010 335D has 46,000 KM of pure joy and no issues other than scheduled oil changes.

This is my first VW Diesel and hopefully there is no other issues as I want to use my TDI for many years to come.
If it works properly it's the ideal work horse!

 

[TDI_Timmy]

Sorry to hear about your troubles but glad to see it is getting fixed on your dime. Being in WA state you will not find pure diesel that is intended for road use. The TDI can handle up to B5 - which is what is mandated in WA state. You will notice that at diesel pumps there is a sticker that says "May contain up to 5% Bio-diesel". I think think this sticker is more for legal reasons as it could be 4.93% bio for that load but should never be over 5%.

 

[Plus 3 Golfer]

An update. Everything that was touched by fuel in the car is being replaced. The service manager told me that the bill he is submitting to VW warranty is right about $9,000

They told me that there was rust colored shavings in the fuel filter. Well, let me correct that. This is what they told me on the 3rd excuse/explanation.

They told me that there is a possibility that the car sat in a VW depot for up to 9 months before it was shipped to a dealer. If it was in a humid environment, such as Florida as he suggested, There could be condensation in the tank that was enough to cause the pump to destroy its self.

The dealer said also to never put any form of biodiesel into the car. ***? What am I supposed to do if there is no other option? Walk to get pure diesel?

Dear VW, Please make your product work right. Or at least with fuel that is available.

Biodiesel upto B5 is permitted by VWoA. Anything over B5 up to B20 will likely be okay as long as fuel dilution of the oil remains in an acceptable range. However, this may mean more frequent oil changes.

I doubt the dealer will do anything for you with respect to extended warranty as all affected components will be replaced, it wouldn't hurt to ask for an extended powertrain warranty or some other compensation.

I doubt TDIs have been sitting around for 9 months. What is the production date? I assume MY 2011s are like earlier TDIs, so look on the lower part of the driver's "a" pillar for a placard with that info. Open the door and get near the ground to see it.

Is there any chance to get some pics of the fuel filter, fuel filter canister and fuel quantity regulating valve? My guess is the dealer took pics and sent to VWoA techs for guidance. Maybe you can call the dealer and have them email pics to you.

 

[fastalan]

Planger, can you advice which station you've been filling up in Olympia? Being such a new car, you shouldn't have gone through more than 2-3 tanks.

 

[fastalan]

Sorry to hear about your troubles but glad to see it is getting fixed on your dime. Being in WA state you will not find pure diesel that is intended for road use. The TDI can handle up to B5 - which is what is mandated in WA state. You will notice that at diesel pumps there is a sticker that says "May contain up to 5% Bio-diesel". I think think this sticker is more for legal reasons as it could be 4.93% bio for that load but should never be over 5%.

This is just very odd, from my observation stations I've checked around recently from Burlington north through Bellingham up to the Canadian border even stations in Point Roberts, none of their diesel pumps have this sticker. Could it be that this WA biodiesel mandate only applies to diesel sold in metro Seattle area? In Portland, not just long ago it was only in the Portland metro area where you can find biodiesel enriched ULSD. Maybe the entire WA state except Seattle have nothing but very dry straight diesel and that won't be good news for the car.

I don't fill up in WA unless I absolutely have to, I got my PS grey bottle with me now as insurance....

 

[Red Sox Nation]

All the pumps I've seen, from Graham up to Seattle, have had this sticker.

 

[planger]

Stickers

I have only seen the ULSD sticker on pumps around here, I know the safeway on the westside of Olympia has B5. But other than that I think they are all straight diesel. We had only used the fuel from when the dealer filled it up, I threw $30 in it one day, then filled it. Both at two different 76 stations.

I wasn't asking the dealership for an extended warranty. That is us asking VWofA for something in lieu of total replacement. At this point I feel certain that every TDI '09 and up is going to go through this at some point or another, so I feel the repaired car might in fact be better than a new one.

I strongly urge everyone who has an issue, even if it is small with your fuel system to register the problem with www.safecar.gov This is the only way that we will get a recall developed.

I don't know about you, but I can't afford a $9,000 repair after the warranty is up. Let's force VW to make a product that is going to last like we all thought we put our hard earned money out for.

 

[mattp123]

occams razor?

im no german engineer, but if theres rust in the pump, maybe stainless steel can help somewhere?

as a potential buyer who really wants the car, threads like this scare me. i agree, everybody who encounters this problem should raise hell at the dealership, nhtsa, VWoA, forums, blogs, investigative reporters, BBB etc. so that something can be done for all TDIs across the board, rather than hope the problem occurs while its still under warranty and not one month after as would be the case with my luck.

 

[TDI_Timmy]

http://www.biodieselmagazine.com/articles/3144/washington-b2-mandate-in-effect-oregon-soon-to-follow

http://www.truckline.com/AdvIssues/...able Diesel Mandates_Updated January 2010.pdf

Started at 2% it can now contain up to 5% - but might only be 3% bio. I can't find anything special for fuel sold in Seattle. OR also has a state mandate and City of Portland has their own. Not sure if Portland area stations are selling B10. As it says in the above PDF, Portland Bio started in 2007, whereas state mandate was in 2009.

Edit: in re-reading the truckline article it seems that only 2% of diesel sold needs to be bio - that could leave some markets with dry ULSD. Out of 100 gallons sold you could sell 98 gallons of dry ULSD and 2 gallons of B100 an you have successfully met the mandate. Would make sense some places wouldn't have any Bio in their diesel. Read something somewhere too that Chevron was bringing in B5 to WA state (forgot what year) but have been filling up at the Chevron near me - sorry I based this on such a narrow field.

Also, the biodiesel magazine shows that it will be B2 - all kind of conflicting.

Additional: reading through the bill as best I could said that 2% (we might now be at 5%) of all diesel sold needs to be bio.

 

[fastalan]

Then it looks like the fuel suppliers only have to hit some kind of average bio percentage on an annual basis to get a pass score from the government, that would be easiest to achieve in higher population metro area like Seattle/Tacoma/Bellevue or high volume truck stations along the highway. Folks in smaller towns or in markets where delivery of biodiesel blend would not make economic sense from the supplier's point of view will have to find ways to fend for themselve. If this is indeed true in WA, then the recommendation to fill up at high volume truck station is the only way to buy diesel (OR you'll have to add your own additive as insurance). Trucks are expensive machines and bus operator or even couriers like FedEx UPS will not risk their machineary with questionable fuel. Fuel supplier will also most likely not fool around with the product being delivered to those stations.

 

[timwagon]

Sorry for the HPFP issue on your brand-new '11.

We were hoping that the latest HPFP redesign had addressed the failure issues once and for all, but that appears not to be the case.

As far as I can tell from recently posted documents from the open NHTSA investigation into this issue, VW now tests fuel samples to determine liability when there's an HPFP failure.

Since your new car had no fuel issues, the repair was covered in full.

We all hope that VW will stand behind their cars and come up with a resolution to this ongoing issue. VW needs to either replace these pumps with a better design, or offer a generous extended warranty for this issue.

Good luck with your new TDI, and here's wishing that this is your last problem with your new car!

 

[planger]

Thanks for the well wishes. I don't think they even had time to test the fuel. It was towed to the dealership and within 3 hours they had told me it was bad fuel and it was covered under warranty, to come and they would get us a rental car.

I run Lucas fuel treatment in my F250, Does anybody run any additives? If so what?

 

[pleopard]

Make sure this Is reported to the NHTSA or safecar or whomever.

 

[planger]

Make sure this Is reported to the NHTSA or safecar or whomever.

My wife already did this and is waiting for it to be approved.

 

[Conan]

Biodiesel upto B5 is permitted by VWoA. Anything over B5 up to B20 will likely be okay as long as fuel dilution of the oil remains in an acceptable range. However, this may mean more frequent oil changes.

I think the 5% BD limit is related to the DPF and catalytic converters that pre-CD VW TDIs don't have. The fact that VW hasn't budged on the 5% rule, even though it will void the warranty on all TDIs in Minnesota tells me that there may be a good engineering reason for it. Caution.

 

[Plus 3 Golfer]

I think the 5% BD limit is related to the DPF and catalytic converters that pre-CD VW TDIs don't have. The fact that VW hasn't budged on the 5% rule, even though it will void the warranty on all TDIs in Minnesota tells me that there may be a good engineering reason for it. Caution.

I cannot find any indication that the B5 limit is due to the DPF or CCs. If someone can point to such, please do so.

I've read studies that show that using a bio blend (IIRC upto B20) vs ULSD lowers the balance point temperature of the DPF (doesn't require as high a temperature per unit of soot oxidation. This will reduce the need for active regeneration as the soot load should not build as quickly.

The reasons I can find for the B5 limit are fuel dilution and engine issues. From Chevron:

The general concern with higher-than-B5 is the lack of convincing data to ensure that use of such fuels does not lead to engine performance issues, such as filter plugging, injector coking, piston ring sticking and breaking, elastomer seal swelling and hardening/cracking, and engine lubricant degradation.​

 

[RebelTDI]

Thanks for the well wishes. I don't think they even had time to test the fuel. It was towed to the dealership and within 3 hours they had told me it was bad fuel and it was covered under warranty, to come and they would get us a rental car.
I run Lucas fuel treatment in my F250, Does anybody run any additives? If so what?

1% biodiesel really is sufficient to provide more than adequate lubricity. Going up to 5% is fine, but there is little enhancement of lubricity above 1%. Many use Stanadyne or PowerService, so whatever is convenient.

It really sounds like something very unusual happened to trash your hpfp within 3 tanks! Who knows? It's good to hear they are making it right for you. I wouldn't be too quick to jump to conclusions on 2011s and their hpfps. Time will tell.

I dump in 1 qt B100 per fill up. So far with over 15K miles on both my Jetta and Golf no issues. Hopefully, this is the last hpfp issue you'll deal with from here on in. Most would advise sticking to a service station that is good quality, does high volume business, and adding BD or a good additive. Kepp us informed.

 

[ZiggyTheHamster]

I run Lucas fuel treatment in my F250, Does anybody run any additives? If so what?

Search for the SPICER report on here or on Google... I wouldn't use Lucas in a Diesel, but I'm pretty happy with PowerService (Diesel Kleen - the gray bottle, not the white one). Stanadyne has a VW part number (and at one point was or may still be recommended for older TDIs). OptiLube XPD is expensive and not available in stores as far as I know but provides the greatest lubricity enhancement according to the SPICER report.

I'd be willing to bet that the wash jockey that filled your car up the first time started filling it with gasoline, realized their mistake, and then filled it with Diesel the rest of the way. And since they are probably barely holding on to their jobs as it currently is (they wash cars at a Volkswagen dealership FFS), they wouldn't have told anyone. Either that, or the dealer ran it dry off of the original Puebla tank - which I have totally witnessed here in Tulsa.

I refuse to believe that the pump would so rapidly deteriorate for no reason other than manufacturing defects. There has to be some catalyst (gasoline? air? water?) that caused the pump to eat itself.

Also, the newer TDIs don't have a water separator, but the fuel filter does repel water.

 

[timwagon]

+1

There have been many cases of "dealer misfueling" of brand new TDIs. VW admitted as much in their NHTSA documentation.

I also wouldn't be surprised if that was your issue...

 

[planger]

I hope that's all it was. So we get our car back tonight. (fingers crossed) I was talking to the service manager going over the specifics of the repair. I asked if they had a chance to look at our other two issues while they had the car. 1. The windshield wipers are really loud when they reach the top. 2. there is a small tear in the window rubber on the back passengers window. They told me that they had forgot that making it run was their top priority. I agree with that. Now I have to take the car back to service for 1-1.5 days!? Fine, at least the windshield wipers are fixed. They were really loud.

 

[tcp_ip_dude]

Title is kinda misleading. "Fuel failure"?

 

[fastalan]

Well, an advice to all new TDI buyer, do a pre-inspection on the filter before accepting the car, demand the dealer to pop out the fuel filter cap and make sure to check for the filter if everything are normal (color, grease, any junks in the filter housing). There are enough photo in this forum showing the difference between a normal one and abnormal one.

Note: An after market fuel filter cap that has transparent windows at strategic location would be very helpful for owner self routine inspection.

 

[pleopard]

Some of the young punks these dealers hire to clean and do basic tasks such as fill sold cars full of fuel are likely to blame in more cases than we will ever know. They're even less likely than the owner to be cognizant of the fact the car doesn't run on gasoline. This past winter these kids were clearing snow around the new vehicles on the lot. I was in utter disbelief watching them... First they pulled open the doors, tugging the doors through deep snow, then they would plow the front end of the car through the deep snow berms.. In several cases they made a couple runs at the berm to plow through! Finally they'd go to their business running a little tractor to clear away the snow... This process probably took 20-30 minutes, but here's the icing on the cake - They left the cars to idle that whole time in sub-freezing temps.

 

[planger]

We got the car back yesterday. My wife drove it to and from work about 100 miles and everything worked great!! A good conclusion to a real crappy start to the ownership of a vehicle

 

[planger]

update

VWofA has called my wife and offered a extension to the factory warranty of an additional 12,000 mi. This looks like a great starting point for negotiations.