//// 10k oil changes way too often ? ////

[Andyinchville1]

Hi All,

I used to change oil per factory recommended intervals. However , after learning about oil testing labs in the forums, I decided to try longer oil change intervals and get my oil analyzed ... I figured since I do easy highway miles this should be ok .

So far I have pushed to about 27k miles on an oil change and the lab results seem ok ( I know for a little more $$ I could have just changed the oil but that would sometimes happen at bad times .... like freezing cold out , super hot out or when I'm plain too lazy to do it ! :-0

I know bad excuses ... but if I could pull off doing fewer oil changes and the engine is still ok with it then that's what I lean towards ... on the other hand if the lf about results said to change oil more I would have to maximize engine life ...

I cant necessarily understand everything in the report but the lab seems to think things are good except maybe lead and the oil being a little thick.

Has anybody gone much further than 27k on an oil change? How were your results?

I am running 5 w 30 rotella in the blue jug .... anything better out there with proven results ?

Would an auxiliary low micron bypass filter help things?

Thanks for any and all input.

I'll try to post my lab pic here but not sure I can .... I did put a pic in the media section under my user name tho .... pics have always been difficult for me on this site.

Edit ... I got lucky and seemed to be able to get pics on here

Andrew

20210124_010145.jpg

• Andyinchville1
• Jan 24, 2021

Oil report andyinchville1

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

I have very little data to back up the below, but...

I've been running 20k+ OCI's on my TDI, but also run a bypass element and add 2 quarts of makeup oil in that time so it's really not a fair comparison since I'm running almost 2x the oil volume (once you add in the additional 2 quarts of makeup) and running 2x as long so you could say that there is no real difference there.

My opinion is that clean oil is much more important than a good UOA. If the UOA shows wear metals it's almost always due to particle contamination (assuming you're running a quality oil in the first place and no pending mechanical failures outside of design spec), and by the time it shows up in a UOA, the damage is already done - too late. A single micron bypass filter will effectively keep the oil really clean (along with adding oil volume to the system) and along with UOA will allow you to run until it needs to be changed instead of at a prescribed interval.

Economically a bypass and UOA's really doesn't make sense as an oil/filter change is relatively cheap in comparison. On a multi-hundred gallon turbine or large engine where an oil change takes days and costs $20k - it makes a lot more economic sense.

 

[CableJockey]

Engine oil typically thins as it wears and breaks down. The fact that your's is getting thicker implies that there is large amounts of something in suspension, likely soot. Which could raise a concern for oil filter element clogging and oil utilizing bypass channels to maintain pressure.

While soot in the oil is normal for diesels, large enough amounts to have a noticeable effect on viscosity can reduce flow to critical parts, (Bearings, turbo, etc.) especially on cold starts.

 

[CleverUserName]

Engine oil typically thins as it wears and breaks down. The fact that your's is getting thicker implies that there is large amounts of something in suspension, likely soot. Which could raise a concern for oil filter element clogging and oil utilizing bypass channels to maintain pressure.

While soot in the oil is normal for diesels, large enough amounts to have a noticeable effect on viscosity can reduce flow to critical parts, (Bearings, turbo, etc.) especially on cold starts.

Oil thickens as it begins to oxidize. Soot can also thicken oil as well. I suspect both are occurring in this sample and 27K miles is too long. I don't think 5w30 is correct for a 1.9 TDI.

Amsoil SS is good to 25K miles. Any HD oil that is primarily group IV PAO will last the longest without oxidizing.

You also should be using oil analyzers AKA Polaris labs as they accurately measure soot and Fuel Dilution which Blackstone doesn't. You need these data points and also TAN of the base oil to really gauge it's condition.

 

[scooperhsd]

You should be using Rotella T6 5w40 instead of 5w30.

 

[jettawreck]

Andy, in one thread you are concerned about making the TDI last as long as possible and now you are trying to explore how far you can "safely" extend oil change intervals. Not to say that extended oil changes will be detrimental but it won't extend the expected life of the engine either (although I'm certain that an even moderately well maintained TDI will outlast the chassis for me in the salt zone).
If you are happy with most of the numbers in the report but concerned with some of the thickening and lead, etc I would suggest considering reducing that interval back 25% or so and do another report and see how/if it improves to your satisfaction.

 

[Mongler98]

Oil, like belts and other wear items are changed via service intervals becuase your supposed to change it before it goes bad, not after or right when it does go from good to bad.
That being said most timing belts last for what seems decades and oil is usually good (at least in older TDIs) for about 15k before the graph is out of spec. But only a fool would knowingly let out get that far.
Imo stop penny pinching and open that wallet. You should be used to it with a VW

 

[Andyinchville1]

Hi

Just an update to this thread

It turns out the oil viscosity that I thought I was using was incorrect The Jug looked exactly the same but I was under the impression I was using a 5w type oil on the low end when in fact I was using a 15 W Oil on the low end so that's why the lab thought my oil was a little thick. when I explained to them the error of my ways they reprocessed everything and said I was fine as far as thickness of the oil was concerned.

So I guess as a note to others Rotella T6 in a blue jug is available as a 5 W Oil on the low end as well as a 15 W Oil on the low end I had to specifically go out the next go-around to buy five W Oil in the low end I still have a 15 W oil jug on the low end in the shed I'll have to see if I can swap that out with the store

Andrew

 

[CleverUserName]

There is a very significant difference between a 5w30 and 15w40. Hopefully you pay more attention to what oil goes in your car from now on.

It’s not “the low end”. The 5w or 15w is called the winter rating. You can use a higher winter rating if your climate allows it, and there are beneficial dynamic properties of 10w and 15w oils, however a 15w40 is usually a heavier 40 weight which isn’t necessary in an ALH. A 15w40 would be more useful in a PD which needs higher viscosity to prevent cam wear.

 

[MukGyver]

I have very little data to back up the below, but...

I've been running 20k+ OCI's on my TDI, but also run a bypass element and add 2 quarts of makeup oil in that time so it's really not a fair comparison since I'm running almost 2x the oil volume (once you add in the additional 2 quarts of makeup) and running 2x as long so you could say that there is no real difference there.

My opinion is that clean oil is much more important than a good UOA. If the UOA shows wear metals it's almost always due to particle contamination (assuming you're running a quality oil in the first place and no pending mechanical failures outside of design spec), and by the time it shows up in a UOA, the damage is already done - too late. A single micron bypass filter will effectively keep the oil really clean (along with adding oil volume to the system) and along with UOA will allow you to run until it needs to be changed instead of at a prescribed interval.

Economically a bypass and UOA's really doesn't make sense as an oil/filter change is relatively cheap in comparison. On a multi-hundred gallon turbine or large engine where an oil change takes days and costs $20k - it makes a lot more economic sense.

Fix_Until_Broke, can you share about your bypass filter setup? I'm curious because on the surface it sounds like a safer way to extend the OCI some. Was it a kit or complete DIY ? Have any pics of it?

 

[Poor King]

All I know is a vehicle which is driven 3k miles a month would have a shorter oil change interval vs. a vehicle which does 3k over a span of two months.

The second vehicle could get away with one after 5k miles to keep it within the 3k protocol, which is a predominant numerical oddity in itself.

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

Fix_Until_Broke, can you share about your bypass filter setup? I'm curious because on the surface it sounds like a safer way to extend the OCI some. Was it a kit or complete DIY ? Have any pics of it?

It's an Amsoil "universal" bypass filter adapter kit. Other than the filter head/bracket and some misc fittings, it was all DIY. I ran the 110 series element (~10" long) for ~15 years and recently (2017) dropped down to a 100 (maybe 80?) series which is ~8" long so I could fit a turbo drain line in. The pictures below are for the shorter filter, but you'll get the idea. I made a cradle on the far end to keep the filter from vibrating since it's cantilevered off the side. It actually broke the bracket before I put the cradle on. Been there for 250k+ miles I'd guess?

This is the best shot that I can find quickly - The same idea on the longer element, just move the head and everything to the right.

It tucks up nicely below the axle and above the oil pan out of harms way.

Supply side comes from a tee on the oil pressure switch. The filter head has a ~0.030" orifice in it.

 

[MukGyver]

Fix_ is this a bypass filter in the sense that it replaces bypasses the original filter such as to get the oil filter to be in a different location.?. ~or is this an additional filter?

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

Ah - Good question, sorry I wasn't clear. It is an additional filter. The OEM oil system is 100% in place, this just bleeds a bit of oil (remember the 0.030" orifice) back to the oil pan across the ~1 micron filter.

 

[MukGyver]

wow that's one small orifice. I guess not to affect system oil pressure. And if it ever got clogged no real risk. I get it, thanks for sharing

Ah - Good question, sorry I wasn't clear. It is an additional filter. The OEM oil system is 100% in place, this just bleeds a bit of oil (remember the 0.030" orifice) back to the oil pan across the ~1 micron filter.