MartelArtifex
Member
Greetings folks, my first post and hope it causes the Warranty Admins at HQ to clock LOTs of OT.
A few months back, our just-out-of base warranty JSW got a flashed P047F and P048A with no driveability Issues. Thanks to the kind folks at Auto Zone I was advised the issue name, and ended up with a nearly $800.00 estimate from the Dealer.
Knowing full well the potential for soot build on a city car (I rotate this with an 11 Golf TDI, both 6-Mans, for my 100 mile freeway commute), and that the second driver has a propensity for blasting thru very deep puddles (read ponds) without regards to the machinery during her two and three mile jaunts, I presumed after looking at posts here that the poorly located and less-well protected "flap" valve device may have had some condensed soot/creosote-type build up inside. The duty-cycle for the system has been in the neighborhood of 650 miles / 11 hours run time. I could barely rotate the apply lever and believed that perhaps some soot had captured the edge of the butterfly. The device showed no evidence of being grounded out or damaged. Externally applied some GM Heat Valve Lubricant (see elsewhere). After some few miles, the light reappeared, so I called the dealer back, in preparation to finish an argument. At this point they declared that they would participate at 50% as a courtesy.
After glancing at the parts page for the installation, I took the car home, put it up in the air, CAREFULLY unwound the two clamps after snickering about the fastenings on the wire harness protector for the apply motor harness, unplugged the harness, cursed the knife edges on the unfinished vestigal crossmember support, propped the exhaust with a couple blocks and carefuly removed the device. GLOVES AND SAFETY GLASSES ARE INDICATED) I did not even want to change the bronze gasket rings. Assumed that I'd hose her out with a can of carb cleaner and button it up.
One look inside, clean as a whistle, stiff as a corpse. Thinking the motor geartrain locked, I parted the assembly. There appeared no evidence of moisture intrusion or case damage to any of the subs. The motor was able to be backdriven with enough force to indicate that it, and its gears' lubricant, was normal.
The butterfly would still not rotate without some 130mm length of lever applied. Then took my only solvent ("Radiator Specialties "Liquid Wrench"", have used no other for 40 years) and applied a few ml to each end of the shaft and walked away for 20 minutes.
After cursing the fool who may have been forced to count beans on this one, I rotated the butterfly some 200 times before starting to get a feel for what it should be working like (based on the apparent rate and weight of the attached balance spring) but I could not free it. Hosed it with more solvent and went to get the gas.
Setting the valve on a slagblock in 17 degreeC weather, I touched the center screw of the partially open butterfly with a small MAPP-gas flame for about 30 seconds to normalize the shaft. Then, walked the flame up and down the shaft for another 30. Still stiff. Went to the outside boss (shaft end opposite the spring) and held it there for about two seconds when POP! it travelled under its design (!) Intent volition (yes, Voila!) and it was able to rotate the butterfly with feather pressure.
Yes, folks, the soot drooled out of there (and the driven end, too) so I operated the valve for another five minutes in a solvent bath. Dried it out with air, coated the vicinity with Lubriplate (inside) and reassembled it.
USE NO SILICONE OR WD-40, you are too near the O2 sensors to risk contaminating the read head.
On further functional inspection, it appeared that the spring was at its' free limit when something like a five percent preload should exist, so I fabbed up a springstop at 4mm height and secured it to the housing where the tail would land. I could have torn it down further and changed the tail end of the spring shape to simulate this effect, but what I really wanted to do was to get it reassembled and running, proven out, so I could write this off on my Uncollected Debt for my Quarterly Taxes. And let you all know that you should ask for a refund if anyone at the Works has stroked you for Eight Bills.
I couldn't quite read the name of the Mfr of the assembly, looked like it may have been something like Wiebelfester, so I have to keep in mind that the last things they may have worked on were Ladas and Wurtburgs, and can't relate to pence-per-millions Engineering decision making processes.
Have put about 1000 city miles on it since this servicing with no hiccups. The speculation about the 11s' having different subs down there does not apply, at least in this poor mans sampling of one each.
Engineer since the '70s (and VW won't look at my Resume! HA!).
These two units are recent adds to my primarily late 90s collection of TROUBLE FREE VERY HIGH MILEAGE Saturns that have been supplanted only because I was looking for replacements to be my last car. I hope.
Enjoy, you'll be done with it in two hours if you plan the soaktime wait around a lunch.
A few months back, our just-out-of base warranty JSW got a flashed P047F and P048A with no driveability Issues. Thanks to the kind folks at Auto Zone I was advised the issue name, and ended up with a nearly $800.00 estimate from the Dealer.
Knowing full well the potential for soot build on a city car (I rotate this with an 11 Golf TDI, both 6-Mans, for my 100 mile freeway commute), and that the second driver has a propensity for blasting thru very deep puddles (read ponds) without regards to the machinery during her two and three mile jaunts, I presumed after looking at posts here that the poorly located and less-well protected "flap" valve device may have had some condensed soot/creosote-type build up inside. The duty-cycle for the system has been in the neighborhood of 650 miles / 11 hours run time. I could barely rotate the apply lever and believed that perhaps some soot had captured the edge of the butterfly. The device showed no evidence of being grounded out or damaged. Externally applied some GM Heat Valve Lubricant (see elsewhere). After some few miles, the light reappeared, so I called the dealer back, in preparation to finish an argument. At this point they declared that they would participate at 50% as a courtesy.
After glancing at the parts page for the installation, I took the car home, put it up in the air, CAREFULLY unwound the two clamps after snickering about the fastenings on the wire harness protector for the apply motor harness, unplugged the harness, cursed the knife edges on the unfinished vestigal crossmember support, propped the exhaust with a couple blocks and carefuly removed the device. GLOVES AND SAFETY GLASSES ARE INDICATED) I did not even want to change the bronze gasket rings. Assumed that I'd hose her out with a can of carb cleaner and button it up.
One look inside, clean as a whistle, stiff as a corpse. Thinking the motor geartrain locked, I parted the assembly. There appeared no evidence of moisture intrusion or case damage to any of the subs. The motor was able to be backdriven with enough force to indicate that it, and its gears' lubricant, was normal.
The butterfly would still not rotate without some 130mm length of lever applied. Then took my only solvent ("Radiator Specialties "Liquid Wrench"", have used no other for 40 years) and applied a few ml to each end of the shaft and walked away for 20 minutes.
After cursing the fool who may have been forced to count beans on this one, I rotated the butterfly some 200 times before starting to get a feel for what it should be working like (based on the apparent rate and weight of the attached balance spring) but I could not free it. Hosed it with more solvent and went to get the gas.
Setting the valve on a slagblock in 17 degreeC weather, I touched the center screw of the partially open butterfly with a small MAPP-gas flame for about 30 seconds to normalize the shaft. Then, walked the flame up and down the shaft for another 30. Still stiff. Went to the outside boss (shaft end opposite the spring) and held it there for about two seconds when POP! it travelled under its design (!) Intent volition (yes, Voila!) and it was able to rotate the butterfly with feather pressure.
Yes, folks, the soot drooled out of there (and the driven end, too) so I operated the valve for another five minutes in a solvent bath. Dried it out with air, coated the vicinity with Lubriplate (inside) and reassembled it.
USE NO SILICONE OR WD-40, you are too near the O2 sensors to risk contaminating the read head.
On further functional inspection, it appeared that the spring was at its' free limit when something like a five percent preload should exist, so I fabbed up a springstop at 4mm height and secured it to the housing where the tail would land. I could have torn it down further and changed the tail end of the spring shape to simulate this effect, but what I really wanted to do was to get it reassembled and running, proven out, so I could write this off on my Uncollected Debt for my Quarterly Taxes. And let you all know that you should ask for a refund if anyone at the Works has stroked you for Eight Bills.
I couldn't quite read the name of the Mfr of the assembly, looked like it may have been something like Wiebelfester, so I have to keep in mind that the last things they may have worked on were Ladas and Wurtburgs, and can't relate to pence-per-millions Engineering decision making processes.
Have put about 1000 city miles on it since this servicing with no hiccups. The speculation about the 11s' having different subs down there does not apply, at least in this poor mans sampling of one each.
Engineer since the '70s (and VW won't look at my Resume! HA!).
These two units are recent adds to my primarily late 90s collection of TROUBLE FREE VERY HIGH MILEAGE Saturns that have been supplanted only because I was looking for replacements to be my last car. I hope.
Enjoy, you'll be done with it in two hours if you plan the soaktime wait around a lunch.
