1.9TDI PD compound sizing

[adamss24]

D5244T10 2.4 Hybrid Bi-Turbo Upgrade Volvo S60, S80, V60, V70, XC60, XC70 - Muchboost.com

MuchBoost D5244T10 BiTurbo Upgraded Turbochargers with a Custom Billet Compressor Wheel, and Clipped and Lightned/Enlarged High-Flow 9 Blades Turbine Wheel. They are based on original BorgWarner turbochargers, which means that the installation is 100%P&P. The turbocharger is meant to work with...

muchboost.com

Much boost claims 330bhp from their hybrid turbo system…which I reckon is a little conservative !

 

[miniCotulla]

Did you look at Volvo’s s60 biturbo/compound system ? Is as compact as it gets, get the large turbo hybridised with a billet compressor and you should have your cake and eat-it ! I reckon it will do your requested boost low down and it will be reasonable easy to implement as everything’s vacuum controlled including the bypass valve ! Loose the emission implements (egr,etc.) and you should have a decent spooling combo which can work in longitudinal engines !

This only has 225hp in stock form. The exhaust bypass/exhaust manifold can't be used as the small turbo would interfere with the intake manifold. And I wouldn't be too sure that this setup delivers enough boost in low rpms as it's an 8 speed automatic it can hide it with short first and second gears.

 

[miniCotulla]

D5244T10 2.4 Hybrid Bi-Turbo Upgrade Volvo S60, S80, V60, V70, XC60, XC70 - Muchboost.com

MuchBoost D5244T10 BiTurbo Upgraded Turbochargers with a Custom Billet Compressor Wheel, and Clipped and Lightned/Enlarged High-Flow 9 Blades Turbine Wheel. They are based on original BorgWarner turbochargers, which means that the installation is 100%P&P. The turbocharger is meant to work with...

muchboost.com

Much boost claims 330bhp from their hybrid turbo system…which I reckon is a little conservative !

This is from a 5 cylinder. My guess is this car also has a bypass on the compressor side. How would this be controlled by my old ECU? My tuner already said he won't do a bypass.

 

[adamss24]

You could probably use the egr part of the map…there’s a Hungarian chap that used this setup a few years ago, he claimed serious results !

 

[miniCotulla]

You could probably use the egr part of the map…there’s a Hungarian chap that used this setup a few years ago, he claimed serious results !

Do you have a link? Can this exhaust manifold be welded on? The big trouble I have is buying this for 1.9K and then realizing there is no way of fitting it to my car.

 

[adamss24]

Volvo has a thing of using turbochargers that are very underated on the d5 platform. Remember the good old gtb2056vl ? It’s an inexpensive turbo with great spool in 1.9/2.0 tdi Vag engines, only to be beaten than the bmw gtb1752vrk but that’s a whole new design with ball bearing chra ! I cannot make the part numbers of the Volvo compound turbo system but if they are anything like the Mercedes’ sprinter turbos (also a 4 cyl 2.2 litre engine ) then they have serious potential! Also being dumb/wastegated then they are nicely matched and easy to control ! I think b&w/kkk done it’s homework pretty well and left enough extra potential to please 4/5 and 6 cyl engine producers !

 

[miniCotulla]

Volvo has a thing of using turbochargers that are very underated on the d5 platform. Remember the good old gtb2056vl ? It’s an inexpensive turbo with great spool in 1.9/2.0 tdi Vag engines, only to be beaten than the bmw gtb1752vrk but that’s a whole new design with ball bearing chra ! I cannot make the part numbers of the Volvo compound turbo system but if they are anything like the Mercedes’ sprinter turbos (also a 4 cyl 2.2 litre engine ) then they have serious potential! Also being dumb/wastegated then they are nicely matched and easy to control ! I think b&w/kkk done it’s homework pretty well and left enough extra potential to please 4/5 and 6 cyl engine producers !

So he just speculated that it would be a good fit for the 1.9?

 

[miniCotulla]

D5244T10 2.4 Hybrid Bi-Turbo Upgrade Volvo S60, S80, V60, V70, XC60, XC70 - Muchboost.com

MuchBoost D5244T10 BiTurbo Upgraded Turbochargers with a Custom Billet Compressor Wheel, and Clipped and Lightned/Enlarged High-Flow 9 Blades Turbine Wheel. They are based on original BorgWarner turbochargers, which means that the installation is 100%P&P. The turbocharger is meant to work with...

muchboost.com

Much boost claims 330bhp from their hybrid turbo system…which I reckon is a little conservative !

How does this work? I can't see a valve on the pressure side? The big turbo feeds the small turbo and the engine simultaneously and the small turbo also feeds the engine? I don't understand:

 

[miniCotulla]

D5244T10 2.4 Hybrid Bi-Turbo Upgrade Volvo S60, S80, V60, V70, XC60, XC70 - Muchboost.com

MuchBoost D5244T10 BiTurbo Upgraded Turbochargers with a Custom Billet Compressor Wheel, and Clipped and Lightned/Enlarged High-Flow 9 Blades Turbine Wheel. They are based on original BorgWarner turbochargers, which means that the installation is 100%P&P. The turbocharger is meant to work with...

muchboost.com

Much boost claims 330bhp from their hybrid turbo system…which I reckon is a little conservative !

Another issue I see is with how low the big turbo sits there would be no way the factory return would be low enough to get the oil out.

 

[adamss24]

Search viptdi on youtube…he tuned a b6 a4…

 

[miniCotulla]

Search viptdi on youtube…he tuned a b6 a4…

do you mean this? this isn't a volvo turbo, is it?:

 

[adamss24]

Nope, that’s not the only one home done ! The bi turbo setup was on Mk2 golf…Buț i might be mistaken and it may be Vory tdi who done it ?!

 

[adamss24]

I have a few pictures of my sprinter twin turbo setup next to a gtb2260vk for size comparison…I need to host them…

 

[adamss24]

As you can see the sprinter setup is a little more suited to a longitudinal engine and the beauty with it is the 3 bolt flange so you can bolt it on a manifold of your choice ! The control is all vacuum so one could use egr map to control the bypass valve. The housings are meaty enough to support machining larger wheels and I am sure one can fit a bv50 compressor and turbine along with a bearing cartridge to withstand high pressure. The Volvo turbochargers is in the 3rd picture…

http://imgur.com/aIsv0NO

http://imgur.com/2m0NtIE

http://imgur.com/ZdlyXSH

http://imgur.com/XHXlyt6

 

[[486]]

Whew! Maybe replace the supercharger with a 2nd alternator at 48v?

7 kilowatts is QUITE the alternator to be driving off a 6pk belt, lol

 

[[486]]

How does this work? I can't see a valve on the pressure side? The big turbo feeds the small turbo and the engine simultaneously and the small turbo also feeds the engine? I don't understand:

likely the area with the v-band clamp on the LP compressor outlet also has a simple check valve in there

I wonder if they've got the wastegate diverter valvey dingus on the manifold doing double duty, where once it opens up to allow direct exhaust manifold connection to the LP it then seats back against another port that blocks flow through the turbine side of the HP

 

[turbobrick240]

7 kilowatts is QUITE the alternator to be driving off a 6pk belt, lol

The SQ7 TDI powers it with a 3kW generator charging a 48V battery. The battery supplies the necessary (up to)7kW. I imagine the blower is operating less than 10% of the time. That's also supplying air for a 4L engine. Power needs would probably be less for an engine half the displacement. Would likely be fairly expensive to implement, unfortunately.

 

[adamss24]

I could shine a camera trough the outlet of the turbocharger system that I have…I wanted to take it apart at some point but never got the chance and i lost interest really !
Lp turbo is a ko4 turbo and the hp turbo is a kp39…I am positive the got boost turbo compound system that I linked above uses bv50 internals to be able to deliver 330 bhp or more !

 

[miniCotulla]

As you can see the sprinter setup is a little more suited to a longitudinal engine and the beauty with it is the 3 bolt flange so you can bolt it on a manifold of your choice ! The control is all vacuum so one could use egr map to control the bypass valve. The housings are meaty enough to support machining larger wheels and I am sure one can fit a bv50 compressor and turbine along with a bearing cartridge to withstand high pressure. The Volvo turbochargers is in the 3rd picture…

http://imgur.com/aIsv0NO

http://imgur.com/2m0NtIE

http://imgur.com/ZdlyXSH

http://imgur.com/XHXlyt6

Where even is the second turbo on the sprinter version? This looks very compact. The Volvo setup looks good too but looking on the pictures the bis turbo seems far further out then on a 1.9TDI.

 

[miniCotulla]

You can speculate it, but I've actually investigated and modelled it. When you have two compression devices in series, the pressures multiply - that's why it's (erroneously) called compounding. If you have an "already spooled" turbo delivering, say, 2 bar absolute, and the SC downstream delivering, say, 1.7 bar absolute (0.7 plus atmospheric, to use your numbers), the result is 3.4 bar abs (2.4 bar boost). At that moment, when you disengage the SC, you don't just subtract its 0.7 bar boost contribution, but you return to 2 bar absolute from the turbo only. That's what I mean by the "step" in manifold pressure. There are ways to mitigate the step by sophisticated control, which I investigate in my thesis. Although it's for a 2-stage turbo system in an Otto engine, most of its findings nevertheless apply to a coupled SC/TC setup and for Diesels as well.

I get that but what if I don't go for compounding. When I put a blow off valve between SC intake and pressure side and let that open roughly at the pressure the SC delivers on it's own it should be possible to make this smooth. As the pressures never multiply in the first place. The SC would only act as a way to get idle boost and help the turbo spool but never compound. Or am I totally off here?

 

[miniCotulla]

I could shine a camera trough the outlet of the turbocharger system that I have…I wanted to take it apart at some point but never got the chance and i lost interest really !
Lp turbo is a ko4 turbo and the hp turbo is a kp39…I am positive the got boost turbo compound system that I linked above uses bv50 internals to be able to deliver 330 bhp or more !

KO4 + KP39 is the volvo or sprinter setup?

 

[adamss24]

KO4 + KP39 is the volvo or sprinter setup?

Yep, from what gotboost say ! I would not buy a 1900 euro turbo just yet, find a 2nd hand sprinter setup and use that for mocking purposes just to make sure you have enough room for it and it works as you expect it to ! They are rather cheap in Romania, I have seen them go as little as 300 euros…if it works then get yours hybridised, companies like AVD turbos do great work with these, the bmw setup is allegedly good for 400 bhp !

 

[miniCotulla]

Yep, from what gotboost say ! I would not buy a 1900 euro turbo just yet, find a 2nd hand sprinter setup and use that for mocking purposes just to make sure you have enough room for it and it works as you expect it to ! They are rather cheap in Romania, I have seen them go as little as 300 euros…if it works then get yours hybridised, companies like AVD turbos do great work with these, the bmw setup is allegedly good for 400 bhp !

Are both KO4 + KP39 so it doesn't matter which one I get?

Who is gotboost?

Bmw setup??

 

[adamss24]

Got boost is the company that does hybrid turbos out of the Volvo/Mercedes’ or bmw turbo ! The 535d has a similar twin turbo setup made by kkk/Borg Warner…

better shot of the sprinter setup !

http://imgur.com/a8XF3uE

http://imgur.com/Erw4hvS

 

[adamss24]

Hybrid Turbo BMW 535d E60/61 – GotTuned.com

gottuned.com

they claim 500 bhp from the stage 2 hybrid setup also kp39 and k26 turbos !

 

[miniCotulla]

Hybrid Turbo BMW 535d E60/61 – GotTuned.com

gottuned.com

they claim 500 bhp from the stage 2 hybrid setup also kp39 and k26 turbos !

The sprinter stock only has 163hp. These uogrades may bring this way up but my guess is spool and response will suffer.

 

[adamss24]

I take it you never driven a sprinter with the 2.2cdi biturbo on motorway…they are driving just like a car !
In a van, with crude suspension and a high centre of gravity, 163bho is quite a lot especially as usually vans are underated due to their commercial use carrying loads…

 

[altz1]

My work Vito (2.1 biturbo) got a remap and puts out 184kw (246hp) and almost 600nm. This is with dpf and everything stock.

 

[miniCotulla]

I take it you never driven a sprinter with the 2.2cdi biturbo on motorway…they are driving just like a car !
In a van, with crude suspension and a high centre of gravity, 163bho is quite a lot especially as usually vans are underated due to their commercial use carrying loads…

I'm sure that's true. But changing the internals to make it capable of 300+ hp is going to kill the low end right?

 

[miniCotulla]

My work Vito (2.1 biturbo) got a remap and puts out 184kw (246hp) and almost 600nm. This is with dpf and everything stock.

From 163 to 246?