1.9 ATD PD vs. 1.9 BEW PD engine differences?

[Bob_Fout]

n1das, what turbo does the ATD have? VNT-17?

 

[HMGC]

n1das, what turbo does the ATD have? VNT-17?

i dont know please help

 

[slow-moe]

Both uses KKK KP-39 but has different compressor outlets.

 

[n1das]

According to fenwick458 in post #2, the ATD comes with a GT1749V, whatever that translates to (VNT-17?). http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2638493&postcount=2

The ATD PD engine came with a Garrett turbo on it, I didn't get a good closeup pic of the turbo all by itself. I can find out and get a good pic or two of it since mrchill still has the turbo. I believe fenwick458 is correct and it is a VNT-17.

I was hoping to dyno the car on the 24th but I won't be able to since NEDD8 has been canceled. At least now I'll have more time break it in before dynoing it. The car should be ready sometime next week.

 

[n1das]

the head on the BEW has split ports, as does the 2 peice intake manifold.
the head on the PD100 is the same as the rest of the PD range and it uses the ALH style intake manifold.

turbo on the BEW is a KP39 and he turbo on the ATD is a GT1749V

and i think the BEW is EDC16 and the turbo has a smart actuator, the ATD is 100% EDC15 and does not have a smart actuator

From my pics of the ATD in the crate, you can tell it's 100% EDC15. It has an ALH-like intake manifold and EGR/ASV assembly. It also has a non-cooled EGR. The VNT-17/22 hybrid turbo mrchill installed on the engine as an upgrade has the smart actuator since we're using my BEW (EDC16) ECU.

We're simply doing an engine swap and doing all upgrades we can easily do while everything is apart. These were upgrades I was planning to do anyway and my BEW's timing belt failure forced them to happen a lot sooner than planned. Sometimes forced upgrades are best.

 

[slow-moe]

According to fenwick458 in post #2, the ATD comes with a GT1749V

The ATD PD engine came with a Garrett turbo on it

According to your pic's both show definitely KP39.

 

[n1das]

According to your pic's both show definitely KP39.

OK, I will be sure to get some closeup pics of the turbo alone when I visit mrchill's shop again in a few days. From what I recall seeing, whatever turbo the ATD came with is very different from the tiny KP39 on my BEW.

What's on there now is a VNT-17/22 hybrid with the smart actuator (aka USA PD version), from TDIparts (www.TDIparts.com).

 

[HMGC]

my question es because i will change my turbo the original vnt-17 for the garret GT1749v of the ibiza cupra tdi you can look it at this web adrees http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-VVW-208&Category_Code=BCS

so i wondering of anybody has doit already this mod

my beetle already have unitronic chipped stage 1 plus , wai , dowpipe 2,5 , catback remus in 2,5 , clutch stage 2 ,

Thanks

 

[mrchill]

The vnt 17 fits on the ATD or the BEW directly, with the only difference on the BEW that the EGR pipe must be changed with a modified one if the EGR is to be reused.

 

[fenwick458]

According to fenwick458 in post #2, the ATD comes with a GT1749V, whatever that translates to (VNT-17?). http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2638493&postcount=2

The ATD PD engine came with a Garrett turbo on it, I didn't get a good closeup pic of the turbo all by itself. I can find out and get a good pic or two of it since mrchill still has the turbo. I believe fenwick458 is correct and it is a VNT-17.

I was hoping to dyno the car on the 24th but I won't be able to since NEDD8 has been canceled. At least now I'll have more time break it in before dynoing it. The car should be ready sometime next week.

every ATD car i've seen in the UK has a GT1749v (AKA VNT 15) turbo on it like this

also in the UK they were fitted to ALH, AHF & ASV(110hp) and AJM(115PD) models too. all the same turbo, 100% garretts. never seen a borg warner/kkk one fitted to any of the above models,

the turbo on yours is clearly not a Garrett, i have no idea what it is. also on your engine the EGR looks funny, in the UK we never got a small bore EGR like that with the clip system? it could be an ATD from another chassis i think.
like for example the ASZ in a golf has a GT1749VA turbo, yet the ASZ in a fabia VRS has a kkk turbo....

 

[mojogoes]

Fen i see all your time over on seatcupra.net has paid off

 

[n1das]

OK, I will be sure to get some closeup pics of the turbo alone when I visit mrchill's shop again in a few days. From what I recall seeing, whatever turbo the ATD came with is very different from the tiny KP39 on my BEW.

What's on there now is a VNT-17/22 hybrid with the smart actuator (aka USA PD version), from TDIparts (www.TDIparts.com).

Chris (mrchill), can you identify and take a closeup pic of the turbo that came with the ATD and post it here? I meant to do that yesterday afternoon when I saw you but got sidetracked then I totally spaced it and forgot. My CRS (can't remember ****) disease got the better of me yesterday after spending all day at a ham radio flea market.

Thanks.

 

[n1das]

BUMP! More pics coming.

Dyno'd the car today at Dent Sport Garage in Norwood MA at the New England Dyno Day VIII GTG (NEDD8).
www.dentsport.com

151.6 HP and ~ 225 ft-lbs at the wheels. The torque number was a little lower than expected. It is tuned for low smoke and from driving it I can feel it roll into the torque instead of jumping on it at ~ 2000 RPM. Given the hardware I have, there's room to turn the fueling up more!

PD RC2+ tuning, only 52 miles on the ATD PD engine when the car was put on the dyno today.

 

[n1das]

OK, I will be sure to get some closeup pics of the turbo alone when I visit mrchill's shop again in a few days. From what I recall seeing, whatever turbo the ATD came with is very different from the tiny KP39 on my BEW.

Original ATD PD turbo pics as promised, aka a little TDI porn:

I stand corrected...I previously thought it was a VNT-17 that came with the ATD from the factory. It's a KP39 after all.

More progress made on the 05 PD JWagen:

A look at the VNT-17/22 PD version turbo and TDIparts 2.5" PD version downpipe:

As a bonus, the ATD PD engine came with the oil life sensor in the oil pan:

The BEW PD engine in the USA does not have the oil life sensor.

After mrchill got the ATD PD engine running and car together and went on a few test drives, I took the 05 PD JWagen to New England Dyno Day VIII (NEDD8).

Dyno results after only 52 miles on the new engine:

The RC2+ tuning is set up for low smoke....probably explains the gentle rolling into the torque at 2000 RPM.

It sure drives nice!

 

[blizzard60]

Hey David,

What are you going with that ATD valve cover? Can I beg, borrow, steal, buy, did I say beg for it from you?

Thanks in advance!

OH, your project looks AWESOME!!!!

Cheers,
-Chris

 

[n1das]

Hey David,

What are you going with that ATD valve cover? Can I beg, borrow, steal, buy, did I say beg for it from you?

Thanks in advance!

OH, your project looks AWESOME!!!!

Cheers,
-Chris

Talk to mrchill about the ATD valve cover. He should still have it.

 

[blizzard60]

Will do! Thanks!

 

[n1das]

BUMP

Finally got the 05 ATD PD JWagen back! I've not got a little over 300 miles on the new ATD PD engine and I can feel it waking up as I practice frequent and firm application of power.

Many thanks to mrchill for his expertise and quality work!

 

[Farfromovin]

BUMP

Finally got the 05 ATD PD JWagen back! I've not got a little over 300 miles on the new ATD PD engine and I can feel it waking up as I practice frequent and firm application of power.

Many thanks to mrchill for his expertise and quality work!

Nice looking install! I take it your oil sensor remains unplugged now? I have one too in my ARL oil pan that's hooked up, but I think you need the fancy clusters to really do anything with it. There's a huge thread on it here.

 

[n1das]

BUMP!

UPDATE: The new ATD PD engine is running great. I did the first OC at 5k miles on the engine. The engine now has 7k miles on it and running well.

I need to get it on dyno again!

 

[named tintin]

The ATD could have bigger nozzle and different camshaft injector lobe shape than the BEW.

Before to tune the BEW ECU for the ATD I would look at an ATD ECU for injector duration and timing map.

 

[cgarai]

Service manual for ATD

I know this is an old thread, but can you give me any ideas on where to get info on the ATD engine? Did you have a service manual? If so, from what car and where might I find one? I have an ATD in my Vanagon, but it didn't come any info.
Thanks,
Chris

 

[n1das]

The ATD could have bigger nozzle and different camshaft injector lobe shape than the BEW.

Before to tune the BEW ECU for the ATD I would look at an ATD ECU for injector duration and timing map.

BUMP for an old thread. Haven't visited this thread in a while.

I don't think the camshaft is any different. I'm not sure about the stock injectors (bodies + nozzles) but the stock rated hp and torque are supposedly identical or similar to the stock BEW ratings (100 hp, 177 lb-ft). The ATD runs just fine with BEW mappings and performance tunes designed for the BEW.

An ATD PD engine is a good way to go as a replacement for a BEW PD engine. Aside from having to swap a few BEW specific parts over to the ATD to complete the installation and make it work with a BEW's ECU, it's a plug and play swap.

The 05 ATD PD JWagen has been running great. It's got around 148k miles on it, 72k miles on the ATD PD engine. At 60k on the engine, I had mrchill do a timing belt change on it. The ATD uses the same timing belt and associated parts that the BEW uses. I'm keeping the interval conservative because I really don't want ANOTHER TB failure. To add insult to injury, VW supposedly issued a TSB for the BEW PD engine, recommending the TB change interval be shortened from 100k miles to 80k miles. My BEW's TB shredded at 76k miles and gave zero warning before failure.

Upgrades done since the BEW to ATD PD engine swap:

PD150 intake: I had the PD150 intake installed orginally but had to use the original BEW intake for a while to pass OBD-II to get thru NH inspection. I was later able to install it again (see below).

RC2+ tune upgraded to RC3: The tune was updated at the NJ Dyno Day event in 2010 that was actually just over the state line into NY. I was able to do a dyno before and after the RC upgrade. There was little to no improvement on the dyno due the ATD's stock injectors being maxed out, exactly as Jeff warned me. The tune also took care of OBD-II issues that would allow me to use the PD150 intake again. The PD150 intake was installed when mrchill recently did the timing belt at 140k miles.

R783 injector nozzles: The car is currently at mrchill's shop getting R783 nozzles installed, in preparation for New England Dyno Day 2012 (NEDD12) coming up on 11/17. Hopefully I won't need the tune tweaked to dial back fueling to control smoke for normal driving. There's next to zero smoke with the current setup before the nozzle upgrade.

I'm looking forward to getting the car back soon to enjoy the weapons-grade TORQUE.