1.9 ATD PD vs. 1.9 BEW PD engine differences?

n1das

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ATD PD to BEW PD swap: ATD vs. BEW engine differences?

Anybody here know for sure what all the differences are between an ATD PD and a BEW PD engine? From what little I know about it, the ATD is virtually identical to the BEW in every way except for a few internal differences. I've searched and read a few threads but didn't find any definitive answers.

I'm curious to know more about the ATD engine if anybody knows for sure what all the internal differences are.
 
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fenwick458

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the head on the BEW has split ports, as does the 2 peice intake manifold.
the head on the PD100 is the same as the rest of the PD range and it uses the ALH style intake manifold.

turbo on the BEW is a KP39 and he turbo on the ATD is a GT1749V

and i think the BEW is EDC16 and the turbo has a smart actuator, the ATD is 100% EDC15 and does not have a smart actuator
 

Farfromovin

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So the ATD also has "normal non ceramic tipped glow plugs". The early Euro PD's (ATD, ASZ, ARL) are "archaic" in a sense to our US PD's as they have standard actuators (non electronic versions like the ALH) with EDC-15's AFAIK. This makes swapping them into our US cars easier...
 

n1das

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Good info. Thanks.

I posed the question about the ATD engine because my 05 PD JWagen will soon be getting a factory new (crate motor) ATD PD engine installed by mrchill. To make a long story short, my 05 PD JWagen has been absolutely bulletproof reliable and flawless and still in pristine showroom condition...until recently. All was great until a few weeks ago where a rogue timing belt took out my BEW engine. It's also getting hard to find a complete new BEW engine in the USA. OTOH, complete new ATD PD crate motors are plentiful and available in the USA.

We're planning to drop a brand new ATD in there and do all clutch, turbo, exhaust upgrades while everything is apart. It's also getting the steel GP upgrade (ECU recently updated by Jeff/RC) unless the ATD already has the steelies. The 05 PD JWagen will be better than new when it's all done. :cool: We're also installing a NEW timing belt on the ATD engine because the engine although factory new and still in the crate is already 4 years old.
 
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Farfromovin

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You're good then. It will already have steel GP's and as soon as Jeff does the ECU magic accordingly your set. The turbo should be pnp as well, but you "may" need a different outlet hose (fancy red one, Peter has them). You're gonna love it, get to ditch the junk KP39 and go with a VNT17 with a nice tune. My guess would be that even BEW timing belt parts will go straight on as long as the ATD is post 2002.5.
 

n1das

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Farfromovin said:
You're good then. It will already have steel GP's and as soon as Jeff does the ECU magic accordingly your set. The turbo should be pnp as well, but you "may" need a different outlet hose (fancy red one, Peter has them). You're gonna love it, get to ditch the junk KP39 and go with a VNT17 with a nice tune. My guess would be that even BEW timing belt parts will go straight on as long as the ATD is post 2002.5.
According to mrchill, it's PnP. From the outside and how everything bolts up, you can't tell it's an ATD and not a BEW. The engine is virtually IDENTICAL to the BEW engine except for a few internal differences. Same timing belt and associated parts. Chris says that VW now has an improved TB for the BEW engines and we're going to install the new improved TB right from the outset. Who knows, maybe there has been a high number of BEW TB failures which forced VW to improve the TB.

Chris sent my ECU out to Jeff for the steel GP update plus any other update(s). Jeff did his magic and it's now back in mrchill's shop with my car.

For the turbo, we're installing the 17/22 hybrid for the BEW PD. For the DP, I'm going with the TDIparts 2.5" DP (PD version w/O2 sensor fitting) & hi-flo cat and new 2.5" piping the rest of the way back.

For the clutch, we're installing an SBC 3 clutch, SMF version. My stock clutch was beginning to slip with RC2(PD) so I was already planning a clutch upgrade anyway.

It's gonna be one schweet Uber-Wagen when it's done! :cool:
 
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n1das

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andreigbs said:
*drooling* I hate you, and congrats on the Uber-wagen! :D Any mods planned for the intake/IC?
Maybe an SMIC upgrade eventually. :cool: After how much I had to fight with my EuroJet FMIC install on my 02 Golf TDI to get all of the issues resolved, there's absolutely no way I'm ever doing another FMIC install. :mad:
 

PDJetta

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Dave: The BEW does have EDC 16 coding, according to Jeff, but I am sure he can work out something to make it all work. I read about your timing belt mishap and glad this is working out, although I bet you are spending a pretty penny. Keep us posted and take some pictures of the install.

--Nate
 

andreigbs

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Trouble with an IC for an ALH? I've heard for PDs it's practically impossible because of the stupid clip design on the pipes.

There is the R32 airbox mod with larger MAF and intake tract, along with a larger intake and the charge-air pipe between it and the IC itself. That would be a few hundred bones no doubt. Does it seem worth it in your opinion?
 

n1das

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PDJetta said:
Dave: The BEW does have EDC 16 coding, according to Jeff, but I am sure he can work out something to make it all work. I read about your timing belt mishap and glad this is working out, although I bet you are spending a pretty penny. Keep us posted and take some pictures of the install.

--Nate
We'll be using the original ECU. We're not swapping the ECU and Jeff has already worked his magic on it for the steel GPs plus whatever else it needs. Except for a few internal differences which I don't fully understand yet, the two engines are identical and have the same stock HP and TQ ratings. The new ATD PD engine will still look like a BEW PD engine to the ECU from what I've been told. We're doing an engine swap plus all upgrades while stuff is apart. We're creating an Uber-Wagen!

I plan to drop by mrchill's shop at lunchtime on days while the work is in progress and take lots of pics. I also want to inspect the failed TB in my (now trashed) BEW engine.
 
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n1das

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andreigbs said:
Trouble with an IC for an ALH? I've heard for PDs it's practically impossible because of the stupid clip design on the pipes.
The easy fix for the clip issue with the PDs is to use the ALH IC piping and then it's PnP after that with an SMIC upgrade.
 
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Farfromovin

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If you had an ATD ECU, you could ditch the 02 sensor... Probably not that big of a deal though with custom mapping as the computer probably doesn't care much what sort of readings that sensor is giving back. You are going to love the new setup. Similar to mine minus a few things...
 

andreigbs

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n1das said:
The easy fix for the clip issue with the PDs is to use the ALH IC piping and then it's PnP after that with an SMIC upgrade.
Now, THAT's an idea. Gonna go contemplate parts and prices for the ALH pipes and a Eurojet/Tyrolsport SMIC.

You are a bad influence. :D
 

n1das

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andreigbs said:
Now, THAT's an idea. Gonna go contemplate parts and prices for the ALH pipes and a Eurojet/Tyrolsport SMIC.

You are a bad influence. :D
I watched it done at a House of 5 Garages (HO5G) GTG in NH. They (BlueCTtdi) went the SMIC route after watching me fight with my EuroJet FMIC install in my 02 Golf. I'll never do another FMIC install ever again.

Peter/TDIparts supposely has all the parts you need and may have it available as a kit. I may go the EuroJet/Tyrolsport SMIC route too. :cool:

I can't wait to get into the new Uber-Wagen when it's done. :cool:
 
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n1das

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BUMP! :D

Just BUMPing this thread to the top given that mrchill is planning to work on my 05 PD JWagen this week. :cool: He has all parts lined up for the BEW to ATD swap plus upgrades while everything is apart. It's going to be an 05 PD Ultra-Wagen when it's done. :cool:

I plan to take LOTS of pics as the work progresses. :cool:
 
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n1das

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Pics Part 1

n1das said:
I plan to take LOTS of pics as the work progresses.
greengeeker said:
Liar!!

Sorry to hear about your BEW crashing on you. What was the story?
TB failure pics as promised...lots more to come as the BEW PD to ATD PD engine swap progresses.

The TB actually didn't snap and it's still intact except for the shredded teeth around the crank pulley:


A closer look around the crank sprocket:


OUCH! :eek:

05 PD JWagen in mrchill's shop:


My (dead) BEW PD engine with everything disconnected in preparation to drop the engine and tranny from the car:




 
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n1das

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Pics Part 2

BEW PD engine is out!







My DG Panzer skidplate definitely paid for itself! I don't remember hitting anything hard that did the damage.



Other parts:
 
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n1das

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Pics Part 3

Factory new ATD 1.9 PD (aka PD100) engine in crate...notice the ALH-like intake manifold and EGR & ASV assembly. IIRC, the ATD PD engine aka PD100 is the engine the USA BEW PD engine was derived from:




A look at the stock turbo on the ATD. It also looks like it has a non-cooled EGR! :confused:



It's definitely an ATD PD engine:


More pics to come as the ATD PD install and upgrade work progresses. :cool:
 
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n1das

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Pics Part 4

More pics as promised....

New ATD PD engine on left, original (dead) BEW engine on right:


mrchill installed a NEW timing belt in the new ATD PD engine. The engine although factory new is already 4 years old so changing the TB was a mandatory MUST DO item. The engine also got the new steel glowplugs installed per the recent TSB from VWoA to get rid of the ceramic "time bomb" GPs in the BEW.

Notice in the next pic how the BEW head is ported. The intake ports have a thin vertical piece of aluminum in each port which splits the port opening into two openings. The BEW intake manifold has 2 sets intake runners to match the BEW intake ports. The ATD PD head is ported like an ALH head and doesn't have this extra piece in the intake ports. Supposedly this change in the BEW head was done for emissions in the low RPM range.


Closeup of #2 and #3 intake ports on the BEW engine:


Closeup of #2 and #3 intake ports on the ATD engine:


BEW PD engine closeup pics:



ATD PD engine closeup pics:




EDIT: Another difference between the two engines is the BEW has the 3 coolant glowplugs while the ATD engine does not. These are located on the same piece where the coolant temp sensor is located. mrchill swapped these parts on the engines and you can see the difference on each engine. :cool: Does the ATD PD engine in Europe normally have the 3 coolant GPs? The difference may have something to do with where this particular ATD PD engine is normally used.
 
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n1das

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Pics Part 5

ATD valve cover installed on BEW engine:


BEW valve cover installed on new ATD PD engine:


It was necessary to swap valve covers so that the CCV hose connects up properly and doesn't hit the EGR/ASV assembly. Notice in the pics that the CCV hose where it exits the valve cover has been rotated 90 degrees.

Coolant temp sensor in my (dead) BEW PD engine:


Here's the new style coolant temp sensor installed by mrchill in the new ATD PD engine. The new (green) colored sensor is more reliable than the older black colored sensor. The ATD engine came with the older black colored sensor.


Some parts we haven't done anything with yet:
 
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n1das

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andreigbs said:
*drooling* I hate you, and congrats on the Uber-wagen! :D Any mods planned for the intake/IC?
PD150 intake manifold, already installed! :cool:
Maybe an SMIC upgrade eventually. :cool:
 

n1das

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andreigbs said:
Coming together nicely... bet you can't wait. You'll be running the same tuning?
It will be running PD RC2+. :cool: It already has the steel GP update already applied to it. I was previously running RC2 (PD) with the BEW and stock hardware before the belt failure.

I saw the car today in mrchill's shop. The new engine is installed in the car but not everything is hooked up yet. More pics coming..... :cool:
 
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HMGC

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Hello i am form mexico city i have a beetle 2005 tdi and i have a question, the turbo GT1749V for the engine BEW fits on the ATD engine ????

Please help me :(
 
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