06 Jetta TDI died on freeway, won't start back up.

Texas_sky

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
ATX/Mile Hi
TDI
2001 GOLF TDI 2dr 5spd
Well a VW/AUDI mechanic in Denver has the car and has found some issues internally inside the head, and I need a engine rocker arm assembly part #
038-109-527-AF

does anyone have one or know where I can get a good used one from a good engine?
 
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Texas_sky

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
ATX/Mile Hi
TDI
2001 GOLF TDI 2dr 5spd
So this is what the mechanic is proposing to get the car running again and I wanted to fix it for under $1000. So I'm looking for a used rocker assembly to get the cost down some. Mechanic has said he has never seen this happen before. It is a weird issue, can anyone advise if they have seen this or this sounds like it will fix my problem of no start? Please see videos earlier in post.

Tow in. Customer states car died while driving, won't restart.
Car has been siting for a while.
No DTCs stored in ECM
Verified Crank No Start condition.
Fuel gauge reads "full"
Tested fuel pressure from in tank fuel pump and found no
measurable pressure. Power and ground to pump are good.
Labor
Labor to renew all 4 injector seal kits and inspect cylinder head
for damage (one is 2.5, all four is 4.5) (includes resetting
rockers to injector height), 4.5 @ $125.00

562.50

038 198 051C
Diesel Injector Seal Kit, 4 @ $56.25

225.00T

038 103 714A
Rocker Shaft Tower Bolt, 8 @ $11.14

89.12T

Motul XClean TDI
Motul 8100 X-clean+ 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil
VW / Audi 504 00 / 507 00, 4.5 @ $11.12

50.04T

038 103 385A
Diesel Fuel Injector Hold Down Bolt, 4 @ $4.70

18.80T

071 115 562c
Oil Filter, 1 @ $12.70

12.70T

976.75 reseal all
488.74 reseal the one that was a loose
Removed cylinder head cover and removed injector rockers for
cylinder 1 and 2. Found that head looks ok and should be
fixable. Thread to hold down of injector 1 are damaged but
should be usable. Also found that rockers for injectors 3 and 4
is missing a oil port blocking pin. This rocker assembly needs
replacement as well.
038 109 527AF
Rocker arm assembly, 1 @ $518.33
 
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Texas_sky

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
ATX/Mile Hi
TDI
2001 GOLF TDI 2dr 5spd
Final description/diagnosis of the problem from the shop:


Car came towed in. Car will not start, initially we thought that in

tank fuel pump was not providing proper feed or pressure. Fuel

pressure gauge showed no fuel pressure. Once the line was

clamped from tank pump we found pressure to ok. Fuel is being

lost somewhere in the engine. After charging battery we found

that during cranking car sounded as it was loosing compression

somewhere.

Removed head cover and discovered that all 4 injectors are not

lined up properly as per procedure on injector install. #1

cylinder injector hold down bolt was completely loose. We

turned on the tank fuel pump we saw diesel fuel coming out of

injector sealing area inside head injector #1, Confirmed that oil

is too high on level and is very thin and smells of diesel fuel.

Removed cylinder 1 and 2 rocker arm to remove injector.

Cylinder head and injector on cylinder 1 seem ok. Hold down

block is damaged and threads to hold down bolt are damaged

but seem usable.

Injector 1 needs reseal, all injectors should be clocked correctly

and straitened in the head and resealed. All injectors rocker

lash needs adjustment.

During removal of cylinder 1 and 2 rocker we found that the

rocker for cylinder 3 and 4 is missing a oil port builder plug

(metal block plug for oil port machining), Found plug in head

area (not reusable or serviceable). This rocker assembly for

cylinder 3 and 4 will also need replacement. Oil pressure loss

and at least rocker failure will occur if not addressed.

Customer and shop decided to not proceed with service at this

time. Customer stated that he would tow it.

We reinstalled #1 injector with old bolt and block, reinstalled

rockers, reinstalled valve cover, did not adjust rockers to

injector lash, All bots and bits are back in their place but car

should not be cranked or attempted to start until these issues

are addressed. Small baggy in car has what is left of injector

seals and rocker oil port plug.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
It is 10.4 hr labor to R&R a BRM cylinder head. We are $135/hr. No idea on parts because I do not know what is wrong with it. Worst case it'll need a head, those are sold three ways: bare head, complete with nothing, which is about $1800, a reman head assembled with cam, valves, etc. which were about $2300 when they were available, or a complete head INCLUDING injectors, which is about $3500.

The complete head for $3500 is the best value, since it comes with everything. If you priced the individual parts included, it would total about twice that. Injectors alone are over $600 apiece by themselves.
 

Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
We have had so many of the PD rocker aluminum plugs fall out, we invented a 'repair' that is just about foolproof. So, buying a replacement rocker is just about stupid when all you really need is to properly plug the galley hole.

First, there are actually 4 of the plugs; one in each end of the rocker shaft. The ones in between the two shafts can't fall out, but the thing to do is brad them into place. We hammer them home with a small, round flat punch, then with a centering punch, strike around the edges to brad the plugs into place.

The ones to the outside of the rocker shaft will blow out. Sometimes you find them; sometimes you don't. I keep several of the used camshaft cap bolts around. The 'barrel' in the center of the bolt has an unusual benefit. Although the OEM bolts are not reusable, the barrel is a press-fit to go into the galley hole of the rocker shafts. The only reason there is a plug, is to cover the hole bored in order to provide oil the rockers. Once done, there is no reason to ever go into that plugged area. Saw off the threads of the cam cap screw, hammer the barrel end into the galley hole and saw off the remainder of the screw with a hack saw. It will NEVER come out, unless you drill it out.`

So much for the rocker shaft.

I agree, in part, with Brian. If nothing else, the cylinder head and oil pan come off. Piston height, galling in cylinders, rod and main bearings needs to be checked. But the cylinder head... who knows? Maybe it's some junk from one of the Chinese purveyors of CRAP. Maybe the builder used the wrong hold down screws for the injectors. Or he didn't know how to tighten them. He sure didn't know how to install the injectors. It just might be a rebuildable head. I think I would be inclined to get a new set of my rocker bolts and 4 injector bolts. Remove all the glow plugs and make sure there is no fuel left in the cylinders. Change the oil.

Reseal the injectors and clean the burrs out of the injector bore holes. Make sure the injector hold down screw holes are not chewed up. They may need to have recoils, if buggered up. Clamp the injectors down to 78 INCH pounds... like not quite 8 ft lbs... That is tight enough to tell what compression you can get and start the car, if need be..

Horrible Freight... diesel compression tester... replace the schrader valve in the insert that is 10 x 1.0... DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN insert, as it is only brass and will strip...Charge battery to full. Disable the injector harness from the engine harness at the driver's side (round plug). Crank engine until the pressure stops rising. If all cylinders are 460psi +/- 10%, and no lower than 400psi, you got no block problem, most likely.

What you need to figure out: 1. Is the cam toast? 2. are the injectors ok? 3. is the timing belt ok? 5. Are the bearings ok? 5. Are the pistons, rods and bores ok?

In this case, I'd make sure there are no bent rods before taking giant steps like replacing the whole cylinder head. All that fuel in your oil, and worse, much of it had to go through the pistons, bearings and cylinders. There is a potential of hydrolock, bearing damage, piston damage.

We reman cylinder heads. Lots of them. As a matter of fact, we have one completed BRM cylinder head under the counter looking for a home. We also have all the parts and pieces in order to put it back together. It includes our PD cam and cylinder head modifications. So, it is not the 'wear out' cam that comes in the OEM cylinder head. If the oil was too thin, you may have damaged cam, rod or main bearings, or cylinder walls. Before you jump off into the deep end, you better make sure the engine block and body qualify for an expensive head.

Just because the injectors came out of the head doesn't mean they can't go right back in. Don't assume anything. The assumption here is that a whole bunch of parts have to be replaced. I've already staunched the bleeding with a $0 hack to fix the rocker shaft. If you strip the injector hold down holes, we repair those, too.

Good luck. You could use some.
 

Texas_sky

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
ATX/Mile Hi
TDI
2001 GOLF TDI 2dr 5spd
Most likely the cylinder head is oem unless the timing belt broke, the belt looks brand new. The car only has 144k on it. I bought it with around 137k in Montana. This car is package 2, has a mint interior and almost perfect body outside of pass side low quarter panel small dent. Hopefully it can be fixed next week. Diesel Land has the car as of 10/13.
 

Texas_sky

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
ATX/Mile Hi
TDI
2001 GOLF TDI 2dr 5spd
Sounds like the whole head should come off and be rebuilt to me. I guess someone was in there before and didn't do a very good job.

Oilhammer I got a response from a TDI mechanic here regarding my issue, what do you think about his thoughts?

"It's not common for an injector to cause a head to be damaged and if it does, that injector likely also needs to be replaced. In all the ways an injector can cause a head to be damaged though, the head can be repaired, generally without removing the head from the car. Injectors on those engines are not a common failure point. If an injector does fail, it can damage the engine but unless a hold down broke or came loose, it'll likely also damage the cylinder."
 

Chad.

Active member
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Location
Edmonton
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Here's a couple options. Have your guy take the head off send it to Franko6 to get inspected/fixed, he'll send it back then have your mechanic install it. From what I read though I'd be a little suspicious of this guy you have working for you. Recommending new rocker arms because the little plug fell out? Are you sure your mechanic didn't damage the "hold down bolt threads" themselves?

Another option I would consider id driving the car to oilhammer as he has previously offered.
 

Texas_sky

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
ATX/Mile Hi
TDI
2001 GOLF TDI 2dr 5spd
Here's a couple options. Have your guy take the head off send it to Franko6 to get inspected/fixed, he'll send it back then have your mechanic install it. From what I read though I'd be a little suspicious of this guy you have working for you. Recommending new rocker arms because the little plug fell out? Are you sure your mechanic didn't damage the "hold down bolt threads" themselves?

Another option I would consider id driving the car to oilhammer as he has previously offered.
No the mechanic didn't damage anything this was a trustworthy 5 star rated VW Audi shop, they mostly work on gas models. The car is now at another shop and getting a further look into it before proceeding to fix or find out if head needs rebuilding. I wasn't aware of Franko6 offering a partial rebuild or just fixing what is wrong with it, I thought he sold completely rebuilt heads. Also the car is not driveable, would have to be towed in which case I'd need a dolly.
 
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Texas_sky

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
ATX/Mile Hi
TDI
2001 GOLF TDI 2dr 5spd
Sounds like the whole head should come off and be rebuilt.

Definitely have mechanics saying take the head off and rebuild others saying its fixable without removing head. Mixed opinions. Would rather do it one way correctly then have to do the job twice.
 

Texas_sky

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
ATX/Mile Hi
TDI
2001 GOLF TDI 2dr 5spd
Update: So the TDI mechanic installed a used rocker arm and reinstalled the aluminum plugs and car started up ran rough and had a misfire on Cylinder #1. He came to conclusion the #1 injector is bad and then did a compression test with positive results (good compression) He wants to replace the set of 4 injectors but is not 100% certain that will fix the problem but thinks it will. Is there a chance something else is going on or good chance that the #1 injector is bad? I can't afford to keep gambling if the injector is bad because this is cutting into the money to swap the engine if that is truely what it needs I can tow the car to Texas and have that done for a fair price.

Does anyone have a trusted injector rebuild service, best option is used injectors from a known running BRM. New out of the option given over $1500. Half of what I paid for the whole car! Also car still needs a DMF.
 
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dtrvler

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2017
Location
Las Vegas
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI 5 spd
Somewhere above someone said 78 inch pounds was "not quite 8 ft lbs"
78 inch pounds is 6.5 foot pounds.
Just fyi
 

Texas_sky

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
ATX/Mile Hi
TDI
2001 GOLF TDI 2dr 5spd
Oilhammer,

No cylinder head or engine needed, up and running with the new/used set of injectors and a used rocker arm assembly. Fresh oil and fuel filter, driving the car again couple hundred miles in... ;) I'm going to start running some LM Purge/Injector cleaner through it more often. So the problem was a number 1 injector leaking fuel into the oil. 144k currently, will need a DSG DMF and a new turbo eventually due to the vanes.
 
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Mozambiquer

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2015
Location
Versailles Missouri
TDI
1998 VW Jetta TDI. 1982 VW Rabbit pickup, 2001 VW Jetta TDI
Oilhammer,

No cylinder head or engine needed, up and running with the new/used set of injectors and a used rocker arm assembly. Fresh oil and fuel filter, driving the car again couple hundred miles in... ;) I'm going to start running some LM Purge/Injector cleaner through it more often. So the problem was a number 1 injector leaking fuel into the oil. 144k currently, will need a DSG DMF and a new turbo eventually due to the vanes.
Often the brm has a problem with the vane adjustment, which is where the "zip tie mod" comes in. If you search that in the forum, you'll find some info on that.
 

dtrvler

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2017
Location
Las Vegas
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI 5 spd
I've taken a lot of those brm stock turbos apart and cleaned them all up inside and then adjusted the tip in screw to specs with vcds. It's pretty much the same use of vagcom that one has to do when performing the zip tie mod. It's hard to reach, but I prefer adjusting the actuator stop screw over the zip tie mod unless the stop screw casting lug on the turbo is broken off.
If you do the zip tie mod, it's good to use a stainless zip tie so its unaffected by the heat.
These cars have to be really opened up to get full range movement of the vanes to keep the "cobwebs" out of it.
Less trouble with vanes sticking that way.
 
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