04 Jetta BEW - 5th gear pops out

[Tyrel]

Hello all, last week drving along 401 and 5th gear pops out. Didn't think much of so I put it back into 5th and a few km's down road out it pops again. Okay i leave it out at this point and throttle back to 90km. Get home start reading this forum and others to try to figure this out. Jumps out under acceleration and slight grades.

Here's what i have done.

-Took off side cover to tranny, with no trained eyes i didn't see anything wrong, of course with not know ing what to look for except the obvious, i didn't see anything wrong.
-Drained and replaced tranny with fresh oil.

Took for drive still jumps out of 5th. hmmm..
Looked into resetting shifter cable linkage, followed a tutorial on doing that, easy enough, again no change still pops out of 5th.

At a loss now, looked up a replacement 5th gear... hmm not sure account can handle that.

Anyways, need some help on diagnosing the problem. If it is a matter of replacing 5th gear, does anybody have a used set they swapped out to do the mod 5th change ratio? and don't need their other one.

Thanks Rob

 

[H2O2H]

5th gear syncro (spelling fail?)

 

[Tyrel]

Thanks, u know if there a kit so this? Don't even know what it looks like...lol

 

[H2O2H]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/new-VW-MK4-...Parts_Accessories&hash=item35ca5e6784&vxp=mtr

edit: let me check etka to confirm it is correct.

It is correct, BUT, it is the whole assembly, and you MAY get away with just the brass ring.

Let me get a pic and part number up for you. BRB.

 

[dogdots]

Part numbers 10, 11, and 14 wear if you decel in 5th gear often and cause the gear to bind when trying to go back to neutral. Those parts are not too cheap from the dealer and hard to find used without wear.

 

[vwmikey99]

can all of this be changed without pulling the tranny?

 

[aja8888]

can all of this be changed without pulling the tranny?

Yep. I changed the above mentioned slider assembly, synchro and 5th gears from just the back case cover removal. Get a good gear puller and a torch.

 

[dogdots]

Actually you can do the job without a gear puller if you have a nice thick pair of welding gloves and a good torch. You will need to replace the springs (#13 in the diagram above) because the heat fatigues them and can cause failure.

 

[aja8888]

Actually you can do the job without a gear puller if you have a nice thick pair of welding gloves and a good torch. You will need to replace the springs (#13 in the diagram above) because the heat fatigues them and can cause failure.

Just be careful with a really hot fire under the car.....

 

[AndyBees]

Those springs (13) come out before you put the heat or puller to it! The set is basically disassembled before you apply heat or attempt use a puller.

If you've never worked with "gears" it is important to notice how it all disassembles so that you put back the new and old parts in the same manner. Go to my photo gallery and look for the album with pics ...... should be helpful to you!

 

[PDJetta]

IIRC the 5th gear in the 02J EUH transaxle for the BEW-engined TDIs has a slightly different (higher) ratio than the 5th gear used in the ALH-engined 02J EGR transaxles. Make sure you get the correct gear.

I thought I read somewhere worn shift detents caused the transaxle to pop out of gear. I do believe the cause for whatever to wear is low gear oil. The 5th gear assembly suffers first since it is the highest (as in distance above the bottom of the transaxle). Do you have a transaxle gear oil leak?

--Nate

 

[Tyrel]

Hey Nate, no leak from what i could see. I believe just over due for a oil change.

 

[Tyrel]

Shift INdents?

IIRC the 5th gear in the 02J EUH transaxle for the BEW-engined TDIs has a slightly different (higher) ratio than the 5th gear used in the ALH-engined 02J EGR transaxles. Make sure you get the correct gear.

I thought I read somewhere worn shift detents caused the transaxle to pop out of gear. I do believe the cause for whatever to wear is low gear oil. The 5th gear assembly suffers first since it is the highest (as in distance above the bottom of the transaxle). Do you have a transaxle gear oil leak?

--Nate

Hey Nate, where do i look to view the shift indents? I am thinking under the shifter boot cover? inside the car?

Thanks

 

[AndyBees]

In the pic below, you can see the "detents" on the gear. They are the small "cogs" that look similar to the cogs on the brass syncronizer there on the right. Those detents are okay on that gear.

Below, in this pic is a closer look at the gear

Below, in this pic you can see the teeth that slide onto the detents of the gear (this is the slider)

Below, in this pic, you can see how it all fits together.

Below, in this pic, if you look close, you can see how worn the hub is......... pretty bad (look at center top of pic)

Below, you can see how the slider fits into the scheme of things. The matching part of the slider also wears.....(not in view in this pic)

Below, is a pic of the spring (actually, there are two of them). One is located on either side of the hub. That sping is in perfect condition (that's how it is made).

I hope this helps!

 

[Tyrel]

Thanks Andy

 

[aja8888]

Yes, that's typically the parts you need to keep 5th gear engaged. That eBay link above is a good deal. When I bought my "slider" assembly, it was around $300 new. Then I added a .658 5th gear set for another $300.

Good luck, and, the wear comes from being low on (not by much) trans fluid and letting it go too long without changing it.

 

[Tyrel]

Ok, was talking to a shop who wanted me to bring it over and they would inspect some linkage for wear, they have seen that before where it gets wore alittle and this also allows 5th to pop out. I am not exactly sure where to look, at the tranny or could it have something to do with the plastic guide piece at the shifter? Any help on this portion of the possible problem would be appreciated. Thanks again all!

 

[H2O2H]

Nope. Not shifter or linkage. They dumb.

 

[Tyrel]

LOL, thanks H2O

 

[AndyBees]

It's the gear ............. don't let a shop hit you for labor screwing around with the linkage! ..... trust us!

I did the gear change thingy without any guidance at all. It's pretty straight forward. However, proper tools is important. I purchased a combo "puller" set from Harbor Freight. I sacrificed the small puller and did some grinding on it. It needed modification to fit in behind both gears .... more so for one of them.

The other biggy is having the right tool to remove those two big screws that hold the gears on. It's a 6 point if I remember correctly. They are on there darn tight. They have very fine threads. Once they are loosened, you must use them to push against with the puller to remove the gear ....... so, do not screw them out too far as you will bugger up the threads. Of course, if you go the way of using heat to remove the gears, that advice/info is mute.

Maybe someone will chime in with the correct name and size of the 6-point tool!

EDIT: BTW, you can re-use the big rubber gasket that's on the end of the tranny (black cover plate)... unless you tear or break it.

Hope this helps!

 

[JB05]

T60 torx, IIRC. It should be mentioned in a fifth gear swap how-to.http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/517/21336gearswap.pdf

 

[Tyrel]

Ok, changed out the gear with the key ways in it, it's the one with the slider mechanism on it. I don't what's it called. But anyways my question is this, when changing this out i had noticed that the bearing that the larger gear turns on (not plastic piece with the rollers) the one on the shaft is lose. Anybody know if this is removable?

Hope, u understand this.

Thanks

 

[AndyBees]

The smaller bearing (needle type), maybe two piece, is in a plastic cage. That bearing is easily replaced (pretty obvious). The other bearings (ball type) would require disassembling of the transmission ....... press off gears, spacers, bearings, etc., would be involved.

That's how I remember it without looking at a manual or a broken down tranny.

 

[Tyrel]

Andy, the plastic case with the roller bearings is new. The bearing that it slips over is the one i would like to replace. I was hoping it would be a matter of heating it up and maybe just using chanel locks or something to slid it off. Don't know if this could be done or not. Was also thinking of placing a magnet beside this bearing and dremelling it off, then pressing on the new one. Just a thought.

 

[chriskatana]

I need # 9, 10, 11, and 12.
Where can I find these parts?
Thanks,
Chris

Let me get a pic and part number up for you. BRB.

 

[mountain lion]

Just curious, how many Km are on your car/trans? Wondering if this is something common to go out as the km/miles rack up...

 

[chriskatana]

312000 mi
Common issue if you run trans fluid low.

Just curious, how many Km are on your car/trans? Wondering if this is something common to go out as the km/miles rack up...

 

[mountain lion]

Is the 2L spec in the service manual considered not enough? I've read of some folks overfilling by raising the front of the car up to get more in, I've always just filled on level ground until oil came out of the fill hole.

I was recently using the VW G070 MT oil until 2 separate UOAs came back with high iron wear, presumably the oil is too thin at half the viscosity of 75w-90. Using Amsoil 75w-90 gl-4 now and may take another sample as I'm approaching 30k miles on this fill. Wondering if that wear is attributed to not enough oil now as 95% of my driving is highway in 5th...Guess the Amsoil report will shed some light.