03 TDI standard trans problem

UptownCharlie

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2015
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
2002 MK4 TDI
Hello folks,

I've been out of the TDI game for about 5 years but just picked up an 03 wagon today that I believe needs a transmission. I picked it up inop. The previous owner said he was driving on the hwy and then it refused to go into other gears when he tried to shift. I think he coasted it to the side of the road in neutral and got it towed. No mention of crunching. I'm positive of him saying that. Now that I've played with it, my experiences are that it goes in and out of gears just fine with the engine on or off AND clutch in or out 😳 Maybe a slight hesitation with the clutch out but it still goes happily enough. It just seems like it is broken down from the transmission and isn't actually trying to drive anything. Are there any somewhat common problems? The car has 467,000km. I haven't dumped the transmission oil yet. Maybe this weekend.
 

UptownCharlie

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2015
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
2002 MK4 TDI
Also, I see myself upgrading things as I go along. I like to improve things when something needs replacing. Not looking to go hog wild really but I can see myself putting in mild injectors, a tune, turbo etc. Perhaps it may someday make close to 150hp? Any recommendations for clutches if I am splitting it and getting in there? Less $$ is pretty important to me these days. Thanks!
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Daughters car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Check the inner cv axles make sure one of them didn’t come apart.
 

burn_your_money

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Location
North Bay, ON
TDI
99 Beetle, 96 B4V, 05 Passat wagon
Sounds like the clutch is hung up in the released position, or maybe it exploded. It's possible something inside the transmission let go too, but that would be a lower probability.
 

UptownCharlie

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2015
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
2002 MK4 TDI
Ok thanks yes I will have a look at the CVs. I think I might have a free parts car coming to exchange parts. I somewhat expected some crunching or something with the transmission of it did fail. I could be wrong for sure. Hopefully get into it next week. I was most curious if there was some known issue with those transmissions. Preferably an easy fix 😂👍
 

UptownCharlie

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2015
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
2002 MK4 TDI
Well, I went and spent a little more time looking at my car the other day. I started it up and found it would go into all gears just fine without having my foot on the clutch. I could go from 5th to reverse without any clash whatsoever. I would even rev it up in 5th and go straight to reverse and there was no hesitation. It acted as though my foot was on the clutch the whole time. No sounds or clunks or crunches with the transmission in gear. There other thing I noticed was there is a vibration that is more pronounced when I rev it up. Based on these things I am wondering if something came apart in the clutch and the transmission is just fine. I bit the bullet and ordered a Valeo 52255602 clutch off Rockauto. think it was around $300 CAD. Also ordered F and R crank seals, timing belt, water pump, t stat and a full service kit. Hopefully the clutch is the whole issue with the no-drive. I guess I will find out soon!
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
If I'm reading this right, you're saying with the motor running you can shift thru all gears without depressing the clutch. I am only able to do that by rev/speed matching. If the gears simple go in without the clutch, driving down the road, the clutch is not fully engaged with the flywheel or the trransmission output is not engaged. I can't even guess what might cause this behavior. ?Pressure plate has come apart or transmission is trashed?
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS
As BobnOH notes, if the engine is running and you can shift gears w/o stepping on the clutch pedal then that means the clutch is disengaged. Other than the clutch plate being totally obliterated the only way in which there could be this situation would be that the hydraulic slave is somehow locked into full extension, and I'm unsure that that's possible (without the clutch pedal being on the floor or such). The default/fail mode is engagement: fingers on pressure plate destroyed leave the clutch engaged; broken fork or trashed release bearing the same.

I don't think that one could get a view of things gone horribly wrong by popping out the timing/flywheel plug and looking, but it might be worth the effort: will need to use a mirror of get a camera down there to get a decent angle/look.
 

jmodge

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI
TDI
2001 alh Jetta, RC2 5speed daily commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/502's backroad cruiser
Before you tear it apart, pull the side gear cover off. Put it in gear and rotate the wheel. Pay attention to the small gear to make sure it’s not turning on the shaft. Splines can tear off the shaft from lugging it. You can also check that your shifter is working.
 

PakProtector

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Location
AnnArbor, MI
TDI
Mk.4 and the Cummins-es
Before you tear it apart, pull the side gear cover off. Put it in gear and rotate the wheel. Pay attention to the small gear to make sure it’s not turning on the shaft. Splines can tear off the shaft from lugging it. You can also check that your shifter is working.
Jim, that would only address 5th I think... :)
You are right to pull off the cover on the driver's side and have a peek. I have my doubts about being able to cleanly separate all the rivets holding the driven side of the FDR to the diff and having the case survive the experience...and that still would not let you go 5th to R with the car stationary and not yield a crunch.
Ideally the clutch broke and disengaged itself. There was a thread a wee bit ago about a SB pressure plate failing, but it just slipped at elevated torque.

curious, just like everybody else,
Douglas
 

jmodge

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI
TDI
2001 alh Jetta, RC2 5speed daily commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/502's backroad cruiser
Maybe the place to start would be pulling the slave cylinder out
 

UptownCharlie

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2015
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
2002 MK4 TDI
Hey folks,

All my parts showed up. I have an AC Delco timing belt kit, water pump, Valeo clutch, all filters for a service. F and R crank seals. I am hoping it is just the clutch and not the transmission but I will find out this weekend. After looking around, it appears pulling the eng and trans as a unit is the way to go. Do I need anything else in preparation or any tooling? I will be working off a flat shop floor with a chain hoist. No two post, trans jack etc...All pointers are appreciated.
 

Zak99b5

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2021
Location
Albany NY
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI
If you take the lock carrier off the front, you can swing it like a gate to the side utilizing the flexible A/C hoses. Then the motor and tranny can come right out the front.
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Daughters car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
AC Delco timing belt kit? Where did it come from and where are the components made?

Did you get all the required new TTY bolts for the motor mounts?

In other words does it look like this?

 

UptownCharlie

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2015
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
2002 MK4 TDI
AC Delco timing belt kit? Where did it come from and where are the components made?

Did you get all the required new TTY bolts for the motor mounts?

In other words does it look like this?

I will properly find out this afternoon when I get home. I do not have TTY bolts. Is that a bad idea to re use? I will post pics and info about all the parts I got later on.
 

mittzlepick

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2001
Location
union maine
TDI
2004 jetta wagon (365k)2001 wagon tire burner 6spd 2003 wagon(417k)
Very bad idea to reuse. I always drop the trans out the bottom, you risk messing something else up. Pull the cv joint cups out of the trans and have a helper from the top. Its not heavy you will need some lumber to hold the engine up or a real engine hanger. I use pressure treated 2x4. Search herm o hanger. His design is nice but you cane go simpler for a one off job. Pulling the whole engine is quite a bit more money also gaskets and such.
 

mittzlepick

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2001
Location
union maine
TDI
2004 jetta wagon (365k)2001 wagon tire burner 6spd 2003 wagon(417k)
Front Crank seal needs counterhold tool for the tightening and loosening. And bolt is one time use
 

UptownCharlie

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2015
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
2002 MK4 TDI
Very bad idea to reuse. I always drop the trans out the bottom, you risk messing something else up. Pull the cv joint cups out of the trans and have a helper from the top. Its not heavy you will need some lumber to hold the engine up or a real engine hanger. I use pressure treated 2x4. Search herm o hanger. His design is nice but you cane go simpler for a one off job. Pulling the whole engine is quite a bit more money also gaskets and such.
Ok. Duly noted. Sometimes I've heard of TTY bolts that aren't actually critical and can be measured and re used a few times so I thought I would ask. I guess I will get those coming. If I am planning on doing the clutch and timing belt, water pump (hopefully not the transmission), is it not better to yard it all out, rather than support the eng and drop the transmission. Keep in mind as I noted, I do not have a hoist to lift the car, nor trans jack and as of now I am on my own, although it could be possible to round up a friend for a couple hours I'm sure if I am in a pinch. I am planning on doing this over a weekend in my shop at work, so I can start Friday afternoon and must be out for Monday morning.
About 7yr ago when I did a timing belt on my old TDI, I don't remember using special tooling. Is it possible to get by without?
 

mittzlepick

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2001
Location
union maine
TDI
2004 jetta wagon (365k)2001 wagon tire burner 6spd 2003 wagon(417k)
Need timing tools, I've done several trannies on ramps and none on lift yet. Pulling engine with will be a headache in my opinion but never tried it that way. Easiest one was with help lifting it with a strap from above. But i have done several solos from below. I suppose mating things up may be easier or not
 

UptownCharlie

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2015
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
2002 MK4 TDI
Is there no way to post pictures? Sorry I'm a little behind with this site.

About the timing belt kit, it is AC Delco TCK321. It says components made in USA, S Korea, Canada. Includes idler, tensioner wheels, belt, a couple spacer looking things.
 

UptownCharlie

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2015
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
2002 MK4 TDI
Bought Valeo clutch 52255602. SMF. I think it's mostly good for stockish power. I don't plan on doing too much with the car for now and I don't ever see myself building it past about 130hp.

Bought a Rein water pump. It says plastic impeller. Maybe I should have splurged for metal?

Mahle fuel and oil filters.

Denso air filter.
 

UptownCharlie

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2015
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
2002 MK4 TDI
I ordered TTY eng/ trans bolts today. The more I think about it, the more I think I'm going to pull it apart in my driveway with home tools. I hate being under the gun to get it done and sure as ****e something will come up. Not going to do a weekend thrash. Going to take it apart and do it right, even if it takes more than a week.
 

UptownCharlie

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2015
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
2002 MK4 TDI
AC Delco timing belt kit? Where did it come from and where are the components made?

Did you get all the required new TTY bolts for the motor mounts?

In other words does it look like this?

It doesn't look quite like that. I have ordered the bolts and the water pump separately. I bought all the parts off Rockauto.
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Daughters car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Hepu or Geba water pump , INA rollers, litens tensioner, continental, dayco or gates timing belt. If any package says made in China throw it away or return it.

I like the kit from idparts, quality parts with everything in one package. I buy a lot of stuff from rock auto but would never buy a timing belt and related parts.
 

UptownCharlie

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2015
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
2002 MK4 TDI
Finished yarding out the engine and transmission today. It was indeed the clutch as I had thought. The shop the PO took it to told him transmission. I had a strong hunch after pulling the plug in the top of the bellhousing and finding it caked in lining debris and stinking. Nothing left of the disk, one release finger missing. I bought a Valeo clutch for it. Going to check the intake for munk and possibly clean out. Replace timing belt and a few other things, steam out engine bay and inspect/repair and hopefully back together next week!
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS
You say not much power, perhaps 130 hp. Good luck with the Valeo holding that kind of power. Stock level clutch (which I believe the Valeo to be) will scream like crazy if you try and apply that kind of power: it's the TORQUE that comes with that level of HP; a Malone Stage 2 tune is good for around that kind of HP and the torque is over 225 ft-lbs (had a dyno register 258 ft-lbs). My stock DMF instantly complained about that kind of power increase. Wife's car got a Malone Stage 3 tune (her son had done it without consulting me; it had T4 nozzles [Canadian car] which I replaced with DLC 1019s) and her clutch didn't last long for us. It started slipping (she doesn't have a heavy foot). Decided to replace the clutch (also replaced the trans because it had a case leak and I didn't want to try and fix that- now am good on a rebuilt trans for a long time), installed a Southbend Stage 2 and couldn't be happier; super smooth/easy clutch (great for the wife; my clutch is a different performance one and is stiffer) and it'll hold this power and more.

With the amount of labor to do a clutch in these I wouldn't look to skimp. Oh yeah, a Luk (stock power) in the wife's old car could be forced to slip if you really pushed it: that car had a Malone Stage 2 and DLC 520s (just like my car): in the early days Luk was known to be able to hold this kind of power, but later not so (it's pretty much rated stock).
 

UptownCharlie

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2015
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
2002 MK4 TDI
You say not much power, perhaps 130 hp. Good luck with the Valeo holding that kind of power. Stock level clutch (which I believe the Valeo to be) will scream like crazy if you try and apply that kind of power: it's the TORQUE that comes with that level of HP; a Malone Stage 2 tune is good for around that kind of HP and the torque is over 225 ft-lbs (had a dyno register 258 ft-lbs). My stock DMF instantly complained about that kind of power increase. Wife's car got a Malone Stage 3 tune (her son had done it without consulting me; it had T4 nozzles [Canadian car] which I replaced with DLC 1019s) and her clutch didn't last long for us. It started slipping (she doesn't have a heavy foot). Decided to replace the clutch (also replaced the trans because it had a case leak and I didn't want to try and fix that- now am good on a rebuilt trans for a long time), installed a Southbend Stage 2 and couldn't be happier; super smooth/easy clutch (great for the wife; my clutch is a different performance one and is stiffer) and it'll hold this power and more.

With the amount of labor to do a clutch in these I wouldn't look to skimp. Oh yeah, a Luk (stock power) in the wife's old car could be forced to slip if you really pushed it: that car had a Malone Stage 2 and DLC 520s (just like my car): in the early days Luk was known to be able to hold this kind of power, but later not so (it's pretty much rated stock).
Thank you Uh oh for the tips! I really didn't want to spend the money at this time for the SB. I did a SB Endurance about 7yrs ago on my old TDI and it was good from what I remember but I bought this for I think less than $350 Canadian and the SB is around 900. That's a huge deal to me right now. I'm going to clean the intake and EGR valve and had thought about the mild injectors and a tune just to get max efficiency and tune the EGR down. That's what I did 7yrs ago. Not sure if things have evolved? Kerma recommend not completely deleting but rather just tune it so it only cycles a small fraction of the stock programming. The most mild injectors I could find on Kerma's site appear to be the 520s. Does that sound right? I wonder how the clutch would do with that....
 
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