02E DSG speaks DOLPHIN

[Bengoshi2000]

First off, I apologize for posting about a non TDI VW. I got out of diesels last summer and the worst part is the lack of serious enthusiasts for the gasser VW's. Y'all have a different mindset here that kept me and my ALH golf running for 10 years and 100k+ miles. So here I am asking about a 2010 Passat Wagon I picked up a few days ago with 120k miles (and impeccably serviced for the first 90k miles of its life). However, It occasionally makes an odd noise when pulling off from a full stop. My daughter described it best... sounds like a dolphin. Noise only lasts a second or two. No detectable slippage and the shifts are clean and noise free otherwise. I have VCDS and have done the adaptation resets with no effect on the noise. I cannot duplicate the noise consistently, but seems to be more likely to happen when the engine is cold. On the full scan, VCDS detected no errors. I'm going to change the transmission oil/filter, but if that doesn't help, where else should I look.

 

[oilhammer]

What engine is it? CCTA? What makes you think it is the transmission?

When the crankcase pressure regulator begins to fail, they can cause some strange noises. Because the crankcase is being directly linked to the intake manifold. And if let go, it'll blow the rear main seal out if it hasn't already.

 

[Bengoshi2000]

CCTA. TFSI 2.0

The sound “feels” mechanical… there is some vibration with it. My understanding is that’s somewhat common DSGs… but the vibration ceases when the dolphin stops.

I just did some reading on PCV issues with that engine and I’m not having other symptoms. No loud screeching under the hood, no CEL, no oil leaks or smells. The car did have a pending code for a cyl 4 misfire. I cleared that and it hasn’t come back.

Is a prophylactic replacement of the PCV a good idea?

I did just have a mild epiphany… I had an old Toyota Supra that had an ac belt that would squeal a little on take off. I need to check the serpentine belt and tensioner before I go much further…

 

[oilhammer]

It is a miracle if that car made it 13 years and 120k miles with its original pressure valve.... so yes, I would replace it. You can tell easily if it is the original, as there is usually a little paint mark (usually blue, but it could be pink or yellow) that crosses the connection to the pipe to the intake.

The intake manifold is also a commonly needed item (there is an updated part, those are problematic). And of course the chains... oh, those silly chains...

...and the water pump.... the plastic housing cracks.

Oh, and lots of dealer techs leave the intake support bracket off, which causes leaks, lean misfires, etc.

That engine family has been a good source of income for me over the years. EA888, lots of issues.

They also have a one way alternator pulley that can lock up, like the TDIs, so you may want to check that, too.

 

[Bengoshi2000]

Looks like the serpentine is due. Very glazed and there’s a bit of “fuzz” on the block behind the tensioner pulley.

Checked the records and the intake was replaced around 60k. No notation about the PCV.

 

[oilhammer]

Yeah, it would be unlikely the original intake would have made it that long. They extended the warranty on those to 10yr/120k miles, BUT, the updated version did not come around until later. The update places a vacuum vent line on the vacuum solenoid to the intake runner, and routes it up to a little tiny filter on a bracket that screws to the cylinder head between #2 and #3 ignition coils. The newer cars just routed this line to a nipple on the clean side of the air cleaner.

The upper timing chain covers can leak, and turn the front of the engine (pulley end) slimy. But when the pressure regulator goes, the oil will get pushed out wherever it can. It is usually the rear main seal. They are a goofy setup that just has a single lip piece glued to a stamped steel thing, and the seal literally tears right off the steel.

This is the plastic water pump housing that fails:

Another one:

There is an aluminum version available to fix that.

This is ultimately what is often needed to fix these engines:

There is also issues with the wastegate mechanism on the turbochargers wearing out, and getting loose, and causing the wastegate itself to lift open, which results in a low boost DTC if a lot of boost is called for over a longer period of time. There is a little kit that can be installed, but it is more to prevent it from happening, not so much to fix it if it is already worn out. All the new turbochargers already come with them installed.

These engines can consume oil, sometimes a LOT of it. They use a 502.00 spec 5w40 (so most any Euro 5w40 that is 505.00 or 505.01 will also meet this), but you can expect them to easily burn 3 to 7 liters in the 10k mile service interval. Consequently, many of these engines blow their timing chains because they are chronically low on oil. There have been multiple updates to the timing chain setup (which is itself a really, REALLY, dumb setup). Most notably the primary chain tensioner. The worst ones were the 2008s and 2009s, but the third update didn't come until 2012, and even then it isn't exactly a bulletproof engine.

I've probably had 50+ of the EA888 engine powered cars towed in here with blown chains and mashed valves, many did not even have 120k miles on them.

I have replaced a LOT of these engines:

This is a 2012? Audi Q5:

Most get junked, as the ~$10k+ it takes to install a new one (VAG doesn't rebuild these) is often more than people will spend.

The last one I had in here was a VERY clean VERY well cared for regular of mine, 2014 Jetta GLI, 214k miles.

 

[Bengoshi2000]

Is the last pic a new crate engine?

Thank you for the heads up on possible trouble points with the engine. I have a 2012 A3 with the same I think. I'm not a fan of plastic for intakes, water pump housings, etc. I put two plastic coolant flanges on the ALH Golf I had. I wish more aftermarket companies would manufacture aluminum parts.

BTW who makes the aluminum version of the water pump housing?

 

[oilhammer]

Graf. It comes complete, housing, pump, o-rings, CTS, thermostat. PA1359 is the part number. There is also a metal version of the little tube that goes between the oil cooler and the water pump housing.

The newer OEM replacement for the rear main flange has a double lip seal, but it is still just a cheesy glued on affair. There is an aftermarket solution for that, but I have only tried that once and the quality of it didn't seem to be very good. But it did work. I may try a different brand next time.

You can just google 'EA888 rear main seal' and see what I am talking about. Those are usually a symptom of a problem (the pressure regulator) and not the problem itself. Usually. But I have seen them blow out all on their own. And it won't necessarily be an oil leak OUT, but a vacuum leak IN.

Yes, that is a new engine in the crate pictured. That may have been from a Tiguan or an Allroad, it wasn't the Q5 I don't think.

They used to sell the engine COMPLETE as shown, you just had to transfer over the turbocharger, the intake manifold, the HPFP and vacuum pump, and the belt driven accessories. But the last couple I did, they did not come with the big bracket and tensioner and oil cooler and water pump assembly. And the price went UP. But, the price has gone up for everything (and some of it is shocking.... cooling fan motors that two years ago were $310 are now $550!!!).

 

[Bengoshi2000]

Just spent an hour or so reading about the RMS on these engines... so the mf'er is essentially "glued on". I was confused as to why you were raising concerns about the positive crankcase pressure popping the seal off. Now I understand.. zurückgeblieben (as we might say in german).

Replacing the serp tensioner looks like a barrel of fun... drop the engine an inch to R&R... Thank you VAG.

 

[oilhammer]

I've found it to be a pretty consistent source of income for me, and overall a pretty lousy engine family.

And when they change something on it, it doesn't necessarily get better. The newer versions, instead of just using an aluminum water pump housing, when to an electronic controlled thermostat. So now, instead of JUST there being the specter of a broken/cracked plastic housing, you ALSO get the random thermostat failure causing them to need replacement. And as of yet, there are no aftermarket aluminum ones for those. I've done lots of those, some that didn't even make it 40k miles. Imagine, a car just out of warranty, the MIL comes on, and the repair is a $1300 water pump job.

Then, they never really could for sure get the intake cam phaser to work reliably 100% of the time, even if they do stay full of oil. The little bridge deal inside has a teeny tiny little oil screen that can either get plugged up, OR can just break apart... and jam the variable cam actuator. The newer engines, they added a variable EXHAUST cam as well. So you get double the potential for failure. And on some versions, they updated some parts for that like the oil valve equipped bolt at the end that holds the variable cam sprockets to the camshafts. The updated part won't fit in the old camshafts. So you have to replace the camshafts, too. And on that engine, there is no "valve cover". The camshafts are sandwiched in the upper and lower halves of the head.

Then some newer versions also got the little valve control solenoids across the head, eight opportunities for failure and/or debris to get stuck in them and randomly cause a valve to stick open after a cold start and get romantic with a piston. No warning, no nothing. You just start the car up cold, and BAM, running on three cylinders. Engine tooefed.

R.
Intake ports gunking up, which is an issue on any DI gas engine, but these seem to go an extra step worse than the rest (even other VAG DI engines). This is less of a concern, though, as between the water pump failures, the intake manifold failures, and sometimes injector failures, the ports are exposed anyway and you can clean them then. I mean, some of these cars have their intake manifolds off as often as they need the air filter changed. The later Audis (longitudinal only) with the aluminum intakes are not so bad, as they employ a fifth injector in them.

Sad part is, when they are running good, they run really good. Good even power delivery, lots of it, lots of torque, and despite their ability to really throw a VE TDI beating cloud of soot out the tailpipe, normal driving can deliver some decent fuel economy. The 1.8L versions don't seem to have the oomph the 2.0L versions do, and they are tuned for regular gasoline so that may be part of it (all the 2.0L are premium users).

The lastest versions, the Budhak cycle ones (VAG's turbocharged twist on the Atkinson Cycle engine, which is similar to Mazda's supercharged twist on them, the Miller Cycle engine) so far seem pretty well sorted on some things. But I've already had a 2019 Tiguan in here with a leaking water pump housing at 23k miles ( ! !!!!! ), so maybe no perfect. But they did extensively redesign the head and turbo, they have the integral exhaust port housing/head arrangement many other engines have employed recently. Seems to work well for some (Honda, Toyota, GM), not so well for others (Pentastar).

But they are also now specifying the 508.00 oil in them, which is 0w20. Even in the higher performance versions like in the Golf R. Not sure how this will play out for engines that were already predisposed to consume oil. They did increase the capacity though (now at 5.75L) and of course all the later ones have an oil level sensor.