'02 Jetta Citrus Cocktail

[WAKeele]

OK. So I've posted a few of my individual problems with an '02 Jetta TDI I bought back in October from a jackass used car place in Connecticut – American Motor Group/David Hanrahan (if there’s an INC. it’s short for incompetent) – over the last few months and it's getting out of hand to deal with. A lot of my major problems started (technically when I bought it) on an impromptu trip from Montana to Tennessee to she my mother whom recently was given a terminal prognosis with her cancer. Well I'm still in TN taking care of her and don't really have the time to properly research everything going wrong, nor the money anymore to deal with much, so I wanted to post everything in one place and hopefully can get some individual feedback.

Here’s the rundown:
2002 Jetta TDI—manual—~224,000 mi at time of purchase (I had an '01 w/245,000 at the time)

I paid just a little less than $4,000—had sunroof, heated seats and alloy wheels, otherwise same as my '01.

Had problems with a cooling fan coming on after engine shutdown and draining the battery, later on to the point to not start the car.

Looked to have a stuck thermostat since it doesn't always get to 190F.

Had to put new tires on due to vibration and pulling to one side at highway speeds--not worth just an alignment due to older tires

Had a belt whining sound – thought it was moisture at first – I later found out what it was

Had problems starting on colder days (I was in Mississippi at the time, so I didn’t notice for a while) – my ’01 would start fine down to -20F – also a bit more smoke on start, as in my old girl didn’t’ at all

What I’ve done/had done:
Added a Panzer skidplate
New fuel filter
New glow plug harness and glow plugs
New coolant temp sensor
New fan control module
Suspension refresh kit
New front wheeling bearings
FULL timing belt job, camshaft, valves, machined head, intake cleaning and related things (I bet you know what happened here)
Limp Mode “fix kit”—which it didn’t
New serpentine belt tensioner and belt
New battery

As you may have figured out I had the timing belt tensioner go out while driving down the interstate at 10pm on a Friday night in between Montana and Tennessee, striping the timing belt and making my day. I knew it was coming and wasn’t going to make any trips until I had it taken care of. Well, my mother’s cancer went terminal and I had to get to TN. I couldn’t get it in before I left and made an appointment with a German Performance Options in Nashville. So, since the only place in Kanas City only on Saturday was Northtowne VW, I had it towed there. Morons. It bit the bullet and rolled the diced and lost. Over $4,000 later with hotel and rental car included ($2,905.11 parts and labor + taxes and fees - $200 my extra hotel and rental car costs for not delivering by your latest ready date fee for timing belt debacle). Of course I had problems with that. On my way back to Montana, noticed a couple of the injector lines leaking a little and my oil level was over full and much thinner than normal. Turns out they didn’t change the oil and just topped it off. Genius. Later noticed oil leaking from the vacuum pump around the head.

Where I’m at now:
Leaking injectors under control

Still smokes some at start

Put in a new “o”-ring on vacuum pump—still leaking (I thought it was designed to not need sealant?)

Clutch popping sound intermittently – pretty rare – sounds like a pressure plate wanting attention

Windshield wipers stopped working (were slow sometimes but I chalked it up to being cold, then later only working at one speed, then sometimes not working at all, to stuck partially through cycle, and will only move a ½ inch trying to move for 5 seconds and then slip back a ¼ inch)

Battery dead every morning—I’m guessing this is related to the windshield wipers?

About to replace EGR (been leaking some since I’ve had it) and thermostat

Replace the remaining vacuum lines that Limp Mode fix kit didn’t come with (maybe replace other regulator too)

About to try to see if I can get a dealer to honor the front fenders corrosion STB


This entire experience leaves me feeling like a moron. I’ve probably sent $10,000 on this car and related expenses (not to include fuel and insurance). Wow, what a nice TDI I could have got for that. I sold my old TDI to one of my best friends for probably one of the greatest deals on a functional TDI and it’s still going strong. I’m almost to the point to finish what I’m about to do and still it for what I can get. I don’t need a car at the moment because I’m here in TN until my mother dies—by how she’s been doing the past few days, she might not have much more time. I’m almost out of money (no income), so my options are limited. I’m trying to liquidate some things, but some things aren’t a sure bet. But, when I think about it, I can’t really replace it for what I might could get for it than what it would/could cost to keep it. I wanted to run this car into the ground, but I thought I’d get more than 20,000 miles out of it (currently around 244,000 mi).

So I guess that’s where I am. I’m sure I’m leaving some important info out and to keep this from being any longer, I omitted some info. The battery/wiper issue is my main concern right now. Also as time permits, I’m going to try filing a Better Business Bureau complaint and maybe some other avenues since the timing belt issues are more real now. I just have to say, this is not the kind of stuff you want to have to deal with when caring for a dying family member around the clock and with no income. If anyone is bored enough to get through this post AND has some insight, I’m all ears!
--Adam

 

[Nutsnbolts]

While I feel for you and your heartbreaking story, I will fous my answer soley on the vehicle's troubles.

Usually, the wiper issue is due to a wiper transmission that is seizing up. Sometimes, removing the wiper transmission assembly from the motor and working it back and forth with some solvent (PB blaster, etc.) will get it freed up. Then hit it with your favorite lubricant (Wurth HHS-K, etc.) to keep it from happening again.

Your battery issue is a seperate problem. The wipers are cut out of the equation when you turn the key off, so the only way to diagnose that one will be to get a meter out and start checking circuits. The cheap way is to pull one fuse out each night and see if the problem goes away when one of them is pulled- that can point you to the circuit responsible for the drain.

If selling the car becomes your answer, then post it here in the for sale section, and you will probably get some positive responses.

-Rich

 

[WAKeele]

Thanks Rich, I'll give that a try. I need to stop being lazy and find a meter to check some things.
I think one of the fans is dead. Would take cause the system to freak out sometimes and draw on the battery?

I forgot to mention the false pretenses I bought the car under. The reason I jumped on the car was because one, the price and two, the guy said, "The timing belt was checked and has been recently done including tensioner and water pump." There were a few other pluses too. After more and more emails he finally starts saying checked instead of done. Did put a new serpentine belt on. Cute. I finally got this out of him too (which was suppose to come with the car at pick up).

If I hadn't traveled so far and wasn't on a short timeline, I would have not settled for some the of inaccuracies. I thought since my older and higher mile one had done so well, it wouldn't be much of a problem to deal with. He did tell me multiple times his mechanic is "a real TDI head!" Right. Because a TDI with 244,000 miles and a whining timing belt tensioner is good to go. Maybe he messed the tensioner up during his "safety check". Paying a lot of stupid tax this fiscal year.

 

[WAKeele]

Here's also some stuff he said in some emails:
"Timing belt service with vw parts $550."

"Hello,
A complete timing belt kit from A VW dealer costs $175.

Thank you,
Dipstick McGee"

"I had the car safety inspected. I addressed what ever the recommended. The belt that was done was a selective belt not timing. My mechanic just checked the belt for damage and the waterpump for leaking!

Thank you,
Dipstick INC."

He said so more stuff in other emails, but it was irrelevant filler.

 

[Corsair]

sympathy for your heartbreaking story.
frankly my 0.02, it's debatable what you would stand to recover by going after the seller, there's enough gray area to argue back- you might not break even on the effort of time and expense.
again sympathy for your story and present situation and its limits. if I read correctly the engine has been (mechanically) repaired and is sound. my 0.02 you're far enough into it "over the hump"- the important thing is to find a good tdi guru who can help you with doing good work (even for the ancillary non tdi stuff such as windshield wipers). the key is to keep it out of the hands of expensive poke and hopes.
prayers to your mom and family.

 

[WAKeele]

Thanks Corsair.
As for are repaired and sound, that's debatable. I'm not certain if the oil level is stand until I get the leak stopped. The oil level had been going up, but on my last 2,100 mile trip, I actually had to add some. It started missing some, but it's not consistant. I've noticed it seemed to do it more after running for hours down the interstate. It has ran smooth on trips to town. If feels like it's not as quick to take throttle as before, but I could be thinking too far back to my last Jetta, i.e. more acceleration.
As for buying a used car ever again, I'm going to get screen shots of everything, copy and paste everything and get audio of any conversation dealing with the vehicle. Probably video too. But, I wouldn't have had to deal with so much nonsense if Northtowne had mechanics worth a damn and could do a job right the first time. Though it is my fault for not getting the timing belt "done" before this happened....

 

[TDIDerri]

Wow. Profound thoughts regarding the reason for your travel. Was in the same situation in 2005 with my own Mom. As to the vehicle...hang in there.

 

[Sbeghan]

I bough a car with similar issues as yours. However I've mostly managed to get away without losing much money because I've read the forums and do most of the repairs myself.

1) The timing belt is always past due. Always. Always get the entire thing replaced, every roller, every nut, everything. It was your fault for trusting that it was done, which it could have been and it still would have broken because if a roller seizes it'll take a new belt with it.

2) Everything else sounds like problems with an old car that weren't addressed and now you're having to take care of it. I've never bought an old car that was properly maintained so you should have assumed that you'd be having those issues. Thankfully most of them are pretty cheap to take care of and aren't show stoppers if you can't afford them. My IP's been abused and it needs a new IP, injectors, and a complete suspension refresh but that's wear, not being a lemon.

3) I paid $3k more for my car with 300,000 miles on it and similar issues.

4) Sorry about your mom, I had to switch schools in undergrad to take care of mine when she had terminal cancer, its going to suck so I recommend you stop worrying about your car and focus on better things.

5) I'm in TN and I'll trade you an 02 Ford Focus and $1000 for your car.

 

[Rob02f350]

oh dam. that SUCKS!

i bought mine knowing it NEEDED work, but paid 2,500 and only have 1,400 into it, including 2 services. if this car didn't save me 400$ a month,(stops me from eating my 500$ minimum in the checking acct.) ide loan it to you.


going to have to try and find a guru to do some working on your car when it's needed. at least save you a little bit of headache

good luck man!

ps. if you are wanting to get rid of it, ill make a bid on the skid plate

 

[WAKeele]

I'm going to try to ride it out and take care of things as best as I can. I've spent entirely too much on this car not to take it as far as it can go. It's just a pain in the ass that I pretty much have to obtain the F-16 level of knowledge I once had because the people that generally sell and deal with these cars don't bother to. I certainly have the capability to learn how to do anything on this car, it's just a matter of having the resources to do so and spending hours reading up--which is something I don't have.

Now for a current issue. I've had an oil leak from around my vacuum pump since the "mechanics" at Northtowne VW tinkered with my stripped timing belt. I put a new "O"-ring on and nothing. I was under the impression I didn't need any silicon or such. Still leaking. The Hanes manual I have says nothing about it and the same goes the huge Bentley book. I didn't find anything on here when I looked, but I'm sure it's been addressed a few times. I'm just going to play dealership mechanic and go with what's worked in the past for me and use some high-temp silicon if no one says otherwise

This is one reason I'm so hesitant to do things with this car. Everything is so finely engineered I'm afraid if I don't do something just right, I'm going to cost myself more time and money down the road. But with labor at a minimum of $90/hour and everyone using set time rates, I just as well try it myself. If something's not right, at least it's my fault and not some so-called pro. And not because of my situation, I don't have the money for labor or even the ability to get my car to a guru since the nearest is about an hour and a half away. Luckily my mom's in a descent state right now so I can take the monitor out to the shop and give it the old college try.

On the docket now:
R2 EGR (might try to clean the intercooler out while I'm at it)
R2 remaining vacuum lines
R2 thermostat
get wipers working
stop oil leak
track down battery drain/problems with cooling fans (which just the A/C fan is working)

 

[Nutsnbolts]

If there is still a leak at the vacuum pump, it's usually because the o-ring fell out of its seat when the pump was tilted back in and got pinched. Never seen one leak otherwise...Don't over tighten the bolts on it- it can distort the housing and make it difficult for the seal to do its job. Also true of the valve cover- super tight almost guarantees a leak.

-Rich

 

[jcool]

Thanks Corsair.
As for are repaired and sound, that's debatable. I'm not certain if the oil level is stand until I get the leak stopped. The oil level had been going up, but on my last 2,100 mile trip, I actually had to add some. It started missing some, but it's not consistant. I've noticed it seemed to do it more after running for hours down the interstate. It has ran smooth on trips to town. If feels like it's not as quick to take throttle as before, but I could be thinking too far back to my last Jetta, i.e. more acceleration.
As for buying a used car ever again, I'm going to get screen shots of everything, copy and paste everything and get audio of any conversation dealing with the vehicle. Probably video too. But, I wouldn't have had to deal with so much nonsense if Northtowne had mechanics worth a damn and could do a job right the first time. Though it is my fault for not getting the timing belt "done" before this happened....

Sounds just like my car about 500 miles before the EGR stuck wide open.

I am truly sorry about your mother, I pray that things smooth out for you soon! Also, sounds like you have made it into a nice car, at least you are taking proper care of it now. Once complete it will last you a LONG time.

 

[WAKeele]

Thanks guys.
When I first took off the vacuum pump, the o-ring didn't looked pinched -- and also based on the leaking injector lines -- I think they tightened it too much. I might have as well. Do you think it can be over tightened to the point to need a new vacuum pump? What's a general life on these?

 

[JC_1992]

I am very sorry about your mother and wish her and your family the best. Bought my 02 knowing it was going to need a lot of work $3500 worth of parts and labor which 90% of it was done on my own. Most of the problems you listed are fairly simple such as the vac lines, egr, and thermostat. The EGR is going to weep no matter what, unless you replace it which is not worth it IMO. Wipers can probably be de-assembled, cleaned, lubed and back to working order.

I guess lesson learned once again about the timing belt. Unless you have full documentation that EVERY part needed to be replaced was replaced it might as well not have been done at all. Also when i had my timing belt installed my trusted mechanic put sealant on the corners of the vac pump if i remember correctly.

I know you said you're strapped for time, but research, and ask questions as much as possible and save yourself many headache and $$$. There are many smart, and helpful people on this forum.

Best of luck.

 

[WAKeele]

Gettin' buck!

So after pulling quite a few things out to do some of the things I mentioned I was going to do, I thought I have this much stuff out, I might as well do as much as I can. My girlfriend came down from Montana recently and can stay for a month or so, thus allowing me more time to focus throughout the day on getting this car where it needs to be. I also cashed out a savings bond and sold some stuff. Also feel now's the time I get back into doing major auto maintenance since I haven't in the last 12 years for various reasons. Maxed out the card to replace some things to get me to 500,000--after all I've put into it, I might as well get the most out of it.

So here's what I have to install now beyond the last things I said:
Sachs G60/VR6 clutch and flywheel kit
engine mounts
Bilstein TC Sport Strut and Shock kit
CV joints/axles
all new bolts if not included with kits

Bought a Metalnerd triple-square set too. I want to change out the fuel lines from the filter to the pump since they're cracking decently, but I'm going to wait to see if I change out the injectors after I get all this finished. So other than these things and the EGR, new main cooling fan, new wiper linkage (which works now), a new MAP sensor, the remaining vacuum lines, stopping the vacuum pump leak and a used cup holder I bought on eBay for cheap for the heck of it, anything else I should consider?!? Turbo is the next major thing in my mind, but I need to sure up more funds first. I'll know more once I get everything apart. I just would like to avoid doing all this and then have to go and pull a bunch of stuff apart in a few months (I grew up working on '60s and '70s trucks [and well drilling equipment] with my grandfather that you can sit on the inside fender to do most work, so I'm still irritated most of the time I have to do anything to a modern auto).

I've been trying to dig up threads and write-ups on all these things and think I have enough info to get me going--we'll see. If you have any advice or links that you think would also help, I'm all eyes.

*I might not have mentioned this thus far, but my flywheel has been popping off and on over the last month (more off than on) and my suspension isn't so hot (even after a refresh kit for the all the bushings and such). Still some noise when I'm turning after changing front wheel bearings. Thus my reasons for replacing these higher dollar items.

 

[WAKeele]

I suck

Things are starting to settle down after my mom died on the 9th and I need to get my car back up and running--I need to drive back to Montana to play Air Force and transport some stuff later next week. I have a lot torn down and had a goal of getting the transmission out night--no dice. The engine is free from mounts and hanging by a engine lift with the transmission supported by a floor jack. I don't have any of the special VW tools for this job and thought I could manage without them. This is the first major work I've done on a modern car. It's been about 15 years since I did anything major on anything other than an F-16. To give you an idea how I feel right now, I'm about 5 minutes away from posting this mess in the for sale section as a pulled apart car in Nowheresville, TN with probable damage to everything you don't want it to. I had high hopes for this almost 1/4 million mile change outs. Was evening thinking about putting in a new or rebuilt turbo and some injectors too (beyond the above listing of things).

I can't get the right axle flange past the flywheel housing and such. I've tried lowering and raising the engine some with the transmission. If it wasn't getting late and my frustration going up, I would probably just disconnect everything from the engine and lower it more.

I'm going to shower and drink until I get some better ideas. If anyone has any tips, I'm all ears. I'll do some searching after I'm clean of grease and failure....

 

[turbocharged798]

There should be a access plate with a bolt in the gasket that goes between the engine and trans. Make sure you remove the drivers side axle(takes 5min)

Once you do that, you can rotate the back trans slightly upward and walk it right off the engine.

 

[WAKeele]

Thanks! I FINALLY got it out. The Bentley mentioned something about it, but I couldn't find where it was talking about. It also mentioned another to remove if installed, so I just figured it wasn't installed. It still was a pain getting that axle flange out around of the flywheel/clutch mess. I can't wait to put it back in.
Are there any strait-forward checks I can/should do on the transmission before it goes back in?

 

[Nutsnbolts]

When I do these, I pull both flanges completely out so that I don't run into the clearance issues- I fought so much with them the first time that it's much quicker just to drain the trans and pull them out.

As far as things to check while it's out, just make sure that the bolt holes for the bracket are nice and clean so everything goes back together easily, and don't forget to top off the transmission fluid.

Congratulations on seeing it through and being able to push forward!

-Rich

 

[WAKeele]

So I FINALLY finished all the work on my Jetta! Just wondering if anyone wants/needs what came off the ol' girl. Here's a list of what was done more or less:

New turbo and manifold
New EGR
New motor mounts
New clutch and flywheel (with new rear seal)
New CV joints and axle
New suspension (front and rear struts and springs)
New vacuum lines and check valve
New thermostat and flange
New N18 EGR pressure convertor
New injectors
New fuel line from filter to fuel pump
New starter
New windshield wiper linkage
New coolant heater [for them Montana winters)
New large cooling fan
Cleaned out all the exhaust and intake lines
Changed the engine and trans oils, and a new fuel filter.

I think that's it. Things usually associated with these replacement were most likely done. All stock stuff.

The turbo is going to www.XSBoostTurbochargers.com since they'll give me at least $100. It was going fine when I took it off, but with 244,000+ I thought I just as well if I want to go to 500,000. If you can top that, it's yours.

The old starter and CV joints went for core, so they are gone.

After I got the springs off they appeared to still be holding strong, but I had already bought new ones, so what the hey--particularly since I was STILL rocking stock struts! They weren't doing jack.

Anything you think you might want, just make me an offer. I can provide photos of whatever you want. I'll ship at cost. Parts are located in Tullahoma, Tennessee--which is where I'm still at. They'll be sold for scrap if they are still around in the next few weeks when I head back to Montana.

Yesterday was the day of reckoning...she started and even went forwards AND backwards. The new clutch and flywheel are lighter in the pedal and louder idling. Other than that, all is well with that mess.

Now here's where I need help. The windshield wipers work now, but when I switch to high, it blows the #24 20 amp fuse. Done it twice now. Not as zippy as I once remembered too, i.e. it seems a little sluggish. Please don't tell me I need a new motor. I thought about maybe changing it out too after I put the linkage in.

Did the injectors today. Let's just say the Bentley and Haynes books are not as thorough as I'd like them to be. Anyways, I couldn't get the car to start this afternoon. I changed the filter, put in new lines from the filter to the pump, put in new Bosio Sprint 520 injector nozzles, new return lines and cleaned up everything else as much as I could. I filled the filter with fuel, primed the new feed line and nothing after about 15 relatively long cranks. After the first couple I added more fuel to the feed line at the filter. It appeared that fuel was moving through the line to the pump the last several attempts. I'm just wondering if it just takes a takes a while to crank or I messed something up.

 

[Lex4TDI4Life]

I changed the filter, put in new lines from the filter to the pump, put in new Bosio Sprint 520 injector nozzles, new return lines and cleaned up everything else as much as I could. I filled the filter with fuel, primed the new feed line and nothing after about 15 relatively long cranks. After the first couple I added more fuel to the feed line at the filter. It appeared that fuel was moving through the line to the pump the last several attempts. I'm just wondering if it just takes a takes a while to crank or I messed something up.

My car is particularly pi$$y when it comes to getting air in the fuel system. Takes me forever to get it primed and running. Keep cranking and you should get there. If you have the time, prime the system and let her sit overnight to see if it held prime.

 

[WAKeele]

More priming didn't seem to help. It took loosen all the injector lines, turning it over until fuel shot out, tighten them back down, and two more extended turnovers. I even had fuel in the return line before doing this. She's running fine now.
The lesson I learned I guess is to not change the filter, filter to pump lines AND injector nozzles all at the same time unless you have a pump, like fuel all over the place or patients.

 

[turbocharged798]

Now here's where I need help. The windshield wipers work now, but when I switch to high, it blows the #24 20 amp fuse. Done it twice now. Not as zippy as I once remembered too, i.e. it seems a little sluggish. Please don't tell me I need a new motor. I thought about maybe changing it out too after I put the linkage in.

Sounds to me like your windshield wiper linkage assy is locking up and causing too much load on the motor. Happened to me except it made horrible noises when I used the wipers. Got a linkage assy from a junkyard, regreased it, and it fixed the problem.

 

[WAKeele]

Sounds to me like your windshield wiper linkage assy is locking up and causing too much load on the motor. Happened to me except it made horrible noises when I used the wipers. Got a linkage assy from a junkyard, regreased it, and it fixed the problem.

I sure hope not because it's a new linkage. The old one slowed down to the point there was no difference in speed for a couple weeks (it had been sluggish for months prior to that), then it just froze halfway through the cycle one day this summer (from September to until two days ago, it was in a shop in pieces). It was in the shop when it blew the fuses too, so it wasn't below 50F then (I'm in Tennessee at the moment mind you). With the motor being stock (244,335 miles), living in Connecticut (before I bought it) and Montana mostly, and the final days of abuse from a locking up linkage, do you think the motor just doesn't have enough life in her to to run on high?

 

[migbro]

I sure hope not because it's a new linkage

Did you install the linkage yourself? Or did you have a shop install it? Maybe I'm too cynical, but if it wasn't installed by you or by a guru then you have to ask if you actually have a new OEM part installed.

 

[WAKeele]

Oh I understand completely. I did it myself.