0-60 in 4 seconds AND 150-200 MPG!

nicklockard

Torque Dorque
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Location
Arizona
TDI
SOLD 2010 Touareg Tdi w/factory Tow PCKG
Tom,


What would it take to install your IVT in a rolling test bed? I gather you have the installation of mechanical parts pretty well worked out. What would it take in terms of electronic black boxes to get the engine of a Tdi to work with your hydristor IVT?

I mean, that's the only way you're going to convince people is with live demonstrations....

The original claims you made (I gather off the cuff?) don't pan out from basic calculations. We all know you can't deliver more power to the ground than the engine can deliver.


But, maybe your design can net some more modest improvements, given that the Tdi is so efficient in the first place. What mpg and 0-60 time do you think could realistically be achieved from our 90 Bhp, 155 lb-ft (1900 rpm) machines on standard tires?

Who want's to offer up their Tdi for surgury?
 

tkat

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2004
you need to consider changing your line of thinking about this. First, horsepower, not torque is the starting issue.
A 5 horsepower lawnmower engine can violently launch a full size vehicle for a dozen feet before it runs out of 'horsepower'. The horsepower required at the instant of start is the same for a bicycle and a locomotive, ZERO. This is true because horespower is force multiplied by speed. So, however large the force, the multiplier at start is zero and therefore the start horsepower is zero. So a normal engine at idle connected to the reflected inertial flywheel equivelent of the car will likely hang at idle by
means of an idle servo capable of full throttle and do so to 5-10 mph for a very hard start.
The conventional prime mover and load of the car driven through a manual transmission has another fundamental flaw.
This is the law of maximum power transfer. This law may be more familiar in terms of stereo amplifier impedance and the resistance of loudspeakers. If you have an 8 ohm amplifier and you connect 4 ohm speakers, the power drop inside the amplifier internal impedance is greater that 50%.
If you use 16 ohm speakers, they wont draw full power. Hence, using 8 ohm speakers results in maximum power transfer, or 50% output. The other 50% is lost inside the amplifier. The anology for an engine which must accelerate to accelerate the car is exactly the same. The rolling radius(squared)of the tires times the mass number of the car
(weight divided by 32.16, the acceleration due to gravity),
about 100 slugs (english units) for a 3216 pound car is
100 slug-feet squared. A typical engine is 1-2 slug-ft2.
Inertias reflect by the gear ratio squared just like impedances reflect through magnetic transmormers by the transformer ratio squared. The 100 slug-ft2 reduces to
100/16 at the driveshaft for a 4:1 rear ratio, or 6.25 slug-ft2. Going through a 2,2:1 first gear further reduces the 'reflected load flywheel inertia' to 1.29. If the engine inertia (everything, pistons, crank, valves, fan, belts, waterpump, all of it) is about equal to that, then 50% of the developed output engine power (not counting the internal power loss which also consumes a lot of gasoline)
goes to the transmission to accelerate the reflected inertia load and from that 50 % comes all of the conventional manual or automatic inefficiency, and what you finally have left now accelerates the car at a rate that pleases most people. The third thing to consider is that the engine is lugged down at startup whether manual or automatic and does not develop the max hp until halfway to 60. Does any of this really sound efficient ? I don't think so.
Now consider the Hydristor as an IVT which has a combination of two internal Hydristors at about 98+ and about 97 combined. The back unit is at max displacement
(about 75 cubic inches for the Ford Expedition). The front unit initially is a circle at zero (makes a nice hill holder at a light). When you step on the pedel, you do not open the engine throttle. That is fully controlled by a dedicated full range servo. Your redel position calls for a specific hydraulic pressure in the Hydristor case and the front unit control pistons begin to move in. Almost immediately, the case pressure jumps to the accelerator pedel number and the drive torque jumps to a torque linear with regard to the pressure. The Expedition converter will make as much as 4,000 foot-pounds into the drive shaft in the maximum example. The idling engine feeds into an overall ratio of perhaps 10,000:1 or higher and the drive shaft, rear and front spring windup, axle twist and tire windup. At this time, the engine doesn't even begin to see a noticeable load. As the hard acceleration begins, the Hydristor ratio rapidly sweeps all numbers and keeps lowering the ratio number. The Expedition will run out of 1 G acceleration with an idling engine at about 5 Mph. Now if
we pre-rev the engine to redline above the power peak Rpm,
and accelerate hard, the rate of 1 G can be maintained in the Expedition to about 38 Mph in 1.7 seconds. The engine Rpm will then be 'dragged down' to about 5600 Rpm (max hp)
and the acceleration will drop off to about .5 G at 60.
The Expedition will make it to 60 in 5 seconds flat because of the Hydristor.
The engine wastes about 80 Hp at 70 Mph. I think the Rpm is about 2150. By cutting the speed to 600 at highway cruise, about 70 hp can be saved, or not wasted. This 7,000 pound vehicle gets about 16 Mpg now. The rolling horsepower is about 30 at 70 Mph. The greater efficiency of the Hydristor coupled with the substantial low speed operation
power savings should boost the mileage to 40+ Mpg on the highway. Ford asked me to boost the operating pressure to 5,000 psi so pressure accumulators can store decel energy for re-use. This will further boost city mileage and overall
average. The engine revolutions per mile will really drop so the engine will now last a half million miles. emissions will also be quartered. The noise will go down in the vehicle. maintenance and tune-ups will stretch out. And three to five Hydristor units will fit every vehicle using adapters. The Hydristor is so efficient that no cooling is required with external cooling lines.
As a result of exchanges with interested persons, I am planning some further innovations. One would be a Hydristor clutch which would behave like a clutch, but the accessability of all engine power would provide substantial power increases during acceleration. The heat lost in a clutch would be gone. You could go through 5 speeds and get to highway speed, and engage the Hydristor overdrive function by clicking a button. You could also dial in the overdrive ratio you want by the feel of the car. Now, when your stick shift hating spouse gets in to drive the car, they would flip the 'automatic' button, put the tranny in 5th gear and away they go, automatically. A 'his' and 'hers' if you will.

Well, I am tired and I am going to quit for now. This has only scratched the surface of the Hydristor technology. More to come. Questions? Call me at 607-7275709
regards Tom Kasmer
 

tkat

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2004
how do you explain Niagara Falls making electricity? The heat comes from outside the box! The second law only applies to that within the box. Heat pumps will capture 3 times the electrical input and replace electrical resistance heaters in a house AS IF the heat captured was electrical power, ie: heat is heat. A Stirling engine will turn heat energy into shaft horsepower. That also exists in spades. If you take a heat pump you can but at the heat pump store and hook it to a Stirling engine you can buy
from Mechanical Technologies of Albany, NY, you 'almost' get 1 kw of shaft horsepower output from the Stirling for
1 kw from the wall plug. The heat pump loses mechanical pumping energy due to the expansion valve, and the valve induces 'molecular shear heating'. The Hydristor can act both as a pump in one chamber and an expansion staged system spread over the remaining three chambers creating
motor torque on the common rotor doing the pumping thus salvaging the lost energy and no molecular shear heating.
This is straightforward and factual. I have a lot of people take this position about the second law. My physicist friends agree with me and are waiting for the first working model. I hope you can reconsider this and try to look at what is possible. I am not out to bilk anyone however and
I have been at this for 40 years with a masters in physics. I have worked as a consultant for most of that time. I invented IBM's automated drill machines called the Hydrapad which have drilled all the IBM circuit boards in the World for the last thirty years. I concepted a million watt power supply for the Star Wars laser which had a power density of 333 watts per cubic inch and a thruput efficiency of 95 %.
I did this in my mother's basement because she was in need of daily care. I designed a rocket ignitor that went to the Moon. Most of my assignments were 'impossible'. I guess I never was smart enough to stay out of it. I aim for the top of the mountain and my failure will be one hell of a way up there. I may be wrong, or end up being proven wrong, but I do not lie. am just an optimist. It seems to me this nation has lost it's dreams. Everybody is running around all negative and such. We as a nation need to pull together.
Otherwise, our children are doomed to a lesser life. I
hope you will call me to discuss this personally. My number
is :607-7275709 respectfully Tom Kasmer
 

tkat

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2004
you are forgetting the heat energy the Sun puts in the air. If you are anywhere near any of this hurricane weather, just remember that the hurricanes are fed their energy by the atmospheric heat of the Sun. There is a very large amount of ambient solar heat in the air and this heat is there after dark! A 24 hour solar engine . Only the most extreme heat pump systems extract heat from the Earth. Many heat pumps work strictly on Freon to air heat exchangers and they run at -40F. There are several different mechanisms in a hurricane. Coriolis force near the equator starts the spin, the center of the spin rarifies the air pressure due to centrifugal force, drawing more warm air and moisture into the upper part of the hurricane and you have walls of air causing tornadoes kind of like spinning a pencil between your palms. The resultant destructive power is what destroys everything in it's path. This is a solar
engine. I believe I can draw energy from the air as latent heat and I believe this will work. If I am right, and I succeed, the future will change. No more poles, wires, distribution lines, generating stations including nuclear, and solar powered powerful cars which run completely on sun
power. Our children need this. They can always tear up the national debt loan papers, but they can't fix the air. Tom
 

tkat

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2004
i will stand by the claim. Regarding the heat pump, 50 year old heat pump technology and 30 year old Stirling engine technology can be put together by buying parts and the Stirling shaft will almost produce 1 kw of shaft horsepower per 1 kw of input power (COP of 3 times a Stirling efficiency of 35%). There is no violation of the second law here. The heat energy comes from the Sun's heating the air, a much more powerful source of available energy that solar cells. Any suggestion of a violation of the second law mis-interprets the facts. The energy comes from outside the box. Tom. Questions, call me: 607-7275709
 

tkat

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2004
My device has blown away all the existing pumps as far as efficiency and for good reasons. Call me 607-7275709
 

Powder Hound

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 25, 1999
Location
Under a Bridge, Crestview, FL, USA
TDI
'00 Golf 4dr White 5sp, '02 Jettachero 5sp, Wife's '03 NB Platinum Gray auto(!)
...you need to consider changing your line of thinking about this. First, horsepower, not torque is the starting issue.
A 5 horsepower lawnmower engine can violently launch a full size vehicle for a dozen feet before it runs out of 'horsepower'. The horsepower required at the instant of start is the same for a bicycle and a locomotive, ZERO. This is true because horespower is force multiplied by speed. So, however large the force, the multiplier at start is zero and therefore the start horsepower is zero. So a normal engine at idle connected to the reflected inertial flywheel equivelent of the car will likely hang at idle by
means of an idle servo capable of full throttle and do so to 5-10 mph for a very hard start.
OK, Tom, I think you are thinking about this in an incorrect manner. Hp requirement at zero is zero. Yup, because nothing is moving. That doesn't mean it does not require a lot of power, however you measure it, to overcome the inertia of the mass of the vehicle and payload as well as the initial rolling resistance. That is why it is torque you need, not horsepower, to get the vehicle moving. That is why the TDIs drive so nice - people like the way they feel since there is so much more torque available at low rpms.

The rolling radius(squared)of the tires times the mass number of the car
(weight divided by 32.16, the acceleration due to gravity),
about 100 slugs (english units) for a 3216 pound car is
100 slug-feet squared. A typical engine is 1-2 slug-ft2.
If you stop right there and see what you have just written, you will see why your claims sound so incredulous. The inertial requirement being 100 slugs and a typical engine putting out 2 slugs shows a large discrepancy. The drivetrain will gear things down, it is true, but it also divides the rate at which the produced slugs appear at the rear wheels. Sorry, but you can't have your cake and eat it, too. The only way you are going to get a hard launch from a 5 horse motor of a building like the Ford Expedition is to run the engine for a while and store the energy somehow. The engine can't do it by itself, at least, not in a very short period of time.

Well, I've probably said too much, but I'd like to see what the end product is. I will gladly accept the explanation of why the IVT is more efficient, and that it would allow an engine to spend more time running at its peak bfsc. If you can do that and store the energy somehow, you'd get nice increases in efficiency for highway driving, and by recovering that energy to resue it for stop-and-go in town, you'll get a big boost there, too.

Combine that technology with computer controlled start up and shut down and you have - hey! a hybrid like what has been seen that uses batteries as the storage device, electric motor/generator to motivate the car in town and...

I think the subject has been well flogged.

Tom, please let me know when you get the prototype running, on whichever platform you get going first, and see what the real world performance is. You'll get improvements in efficiency, and that will be all good.

Cheers!
 

2004_Passat

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Collierville, TN
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SE DSG
Ok, maybe you can make a continuously variable transmission with a very high efficiency. That would be good. And maybe you can store energy (either in flywheel inertia or in hydraulic pressure) to improve launch performance. An improvement in launch off the line, coupled with a transmission that can keep the engine at its peak power point would certainly improve acceleration. I don't know if your device will do any of the above, but at least it's within the realm of possibility. But please don't combine those claims with the claim of increasing highway mileage from 16 to 40mpg by dropping the cruising RPM. That would decrease the mpg, not increase it. As has been mentioned several times already, the BSFC vs. RPM curves for gasoline and diesel engines don't support your claims.

Furthermore, your example of a heat pump/stirling engine combination do nothing to support your claims. It's true that you can couple these two devices and come up with a conversion efficiency of perhaps 70-80 percent (I'm being generous). But so what? What does that prove? The 1st and 2nd law still apply. And we all love hydroelectric power, solar power, etc. But none of that applies to your device either, so I'd suggest that you focus on your CVT and leave the unrelated arguments out.

In summary: yes, CVTs could improve performance. Energy storage for acceleration improvement has been well proven in hybrid vehicles. There is nothing new in what you suggest, only exaggerated claims.
 

gern_blanston

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2002
Location
PNW
TDI
Golf, '03, Silver
In summary: yes, CVTs could improve performance. Energy storage for acceleration improvement has been well proven in hybrid vehicles. There is nothing new in what you suggest, only exaggerated claims.
Exactly.
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
**Urp**

well, I digested all of that and have seen that the points that I would have brought up have been brought up. It takes a certain HP to do a certain amount of work regardless of the gearing. And you can't get out more than you put in.

So, even though I see the members here as quite often overly obsessive about their cars (in my opinion), I have a respect for the knowledge base here. I especially appreciate that when I spout off on something that I think I know about, someone will correct me.

 

nicklockard

Torque Dorque
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Location
Arizona
TDI
SOLD 2010 Touareg Tdi w/factory Tow PCKG
Uhhh, between my throwdown challenge and your summary, I think we scared him off(?)
 

gern_blanston

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2002
Location
PNW
TDI
Golf, '03, Silver
Yeah, he must've been looking for investors or something. I noticed that he gave his phone number about 10 times.
 

nicklockard

Torque Dorque
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Location
Arizona
TDI
SOLD 2010 Touareg Tdi w/factory Tow PCKG
Yeah, he must've been looking for investors or something. I noticed that he gave his phone number about 10 times.

hehehehe. *snicker*

Too bad we've got like a dozen or more physicists, engineers, scientists, and other technically savvy/ thermodynamically aware people here.

Dang, once you learn thermo, it's much much harder for people to pull the wool over your eyes.


Woooot.
 

MrMopar

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Location
Bloomington, IL
TDI
none
Yeah, his line of B.S. didn't hold up too long, did it
You got that right.

Last words on the subject - everyone should keep in mind these seven warning signs of bogus science:

1. The discoverer pitches the claim directly to the media.
2. The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to suppress his or her work.
3. The scientific effect involved is always at the very limit of detection.
4. Evidence for a discovery is anecdotal.
5. The discoverer says a belief is credible because it has endured for centuries.
6. The discoverer has worked in isolation.
7. The discoverer must propose new laws of nature to explain an observation.

This guy's load of crap meets at least a few of these rules.
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
So... where's the 4-second 0-60, 200 MPG TDI? I'd be happy to offer my ride to be the development mule, or, with record fuel prices, I wanted one like last month.
 

EECSentric

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Location
Arlington, MA
TDI
2015 GSW TDI SEL DSG LP
I loved it when the "I have a masters degree.... in science" (anyone remember those shorts) said "spin rarifies the air pressure due to centrifugal force". As if the rest of the technical flaws weren't enough. End of debate.

This type of mistake causing instant disqualification is similar to Godwin's Law. I saw a similar thing last week in an EETimes article "The Great Debate: SOC vs. SIP". The two interviewees were having a mediocre debate back and forth (and unlike this case there was no immediately clear winner) when one person said, "Remember, we will be increasing integration with the SiP approach as well, combining things where there is real architectural synergy." I'm sorry, game over you lose, do not pass go.

Next thing you know, we'll have people posting about "Chemtrails".
 

WirelessMike

Active member
Joined
Oct 17, 2003
Location
Vernon, NJ
TDI
Jetta, 2003, gray
A great inventor should be able to do better than a cell phone number out of Binghampton, NY. I though it would be interesting to see if something as basic as his phone number were legit.
 

nicklockard

Torque Dorque
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Location
Arizona
TDI
SOLD 2010 Touareg Tdi w/factory Tow PCKG
Are you proposing EECSentric's law as a name?

Ok, I'll second that motion.



May I propose an addendum to EECSentric's law?

Nick's (proposed) addendum to EECSentric's law:


Besides sounding outlandish, claims made by psuedo-wunderkinds are often made in horribly mangled sentences including, but not limited to, many of the following characteristics:

1. One or more comma-spliced or run on sentences.
2. One or more sentence fragments.
3. Use of new words or unheard-of phrases.
4. One or more Randomly capitalized Letters.
5. Invocation of one or more poorly constructed or horribly
mangled analogies.
6. Lack paragraph structure...often only one continuous
block of text with no breaks between main ideas.
7. One or more strings of multiply dependent clauses,
employing a string of prepositions with rarely an active
verb.
8. A 'stream of conciousness' writing style resembling a
brook full of eddies and flotsam.


As case example proofs of my addendum, please refer to post #830167 and tkat's subsequent posts.
 

EECSentric

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Location
Arlington, MA
TDI
2015 GSW TDI SEL DSG LP
Actually, I have found a great tool in weeding out the fraud from the science. The first chapter of Jeremy Bernstein's book <u>Cranks, Quarks, and the Cosmos</u> is titled "How can we be sure that Albert Einstein was not a crank?". It gives two conditions that any new theory must meet in order to even be considered valid or invalid. Notice how sucess does not validiate the theory.

The first test should be pretty easy. One has to show why the previous sucessful theories have worked up to now and in doing so how the new theory properly accounts for prior observations and measurements.

The second test is more involved. One must make a testable prediction that could be measured or observed, but limited by the fact that the measurement or observation cannot have been made before and the expected outcome could not be explained by the current theories.

Also, check out Phil Plait's http://www.badastronomy.com/ webpage.
 

Kymerik

Veteran Member
Joined
May 12, 2009
Location
Cincinnati, OH
TDI
2004 Golf GLS
And the award for bringing the most outdated thread back to life goes to...... :)

I just read through alot of this nonsense and finally got to the end and saw 7 years later. DOH
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
Because "inventions" that don't work need to be made examples of.
 
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