‘01 Forester making WHOMP-WHOMP noise in rear after new brakes

2000alhVW

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2000 Golf
I did pads and rotors all around on a 2001 Subaru Forester for a woman I do a lot of work for.
I took it for a test drive after and it makes a very odd WHOMP WHOMP noise in the rear when making a tight turn. 80% sure it’s from rear passenger wheel area.

I took the rear brakes apart several times trying to chase the noise down and my personal opinion is that it’s a wheel bearing going bad. I couldn’t shake any play out of the rear wheels though.
I did some troubleshooting - it only makes it on hard right turns, with no change when using pedal pedal or pulling on parking brake.
I feel it’s a wheel bearing, especially as I am superficially familiar that these Subaru’s eat wheel bearings regularly, but the owner is VERY anal/neurotic. Single owner car, garage kept, 100% maintenance done at dealer without fail. The owner is very curious why, if it is a wheel bearing, it would suddenly act up after brake work. Which is a fair question

I’ve run out of things to check, or what to tell her, so I’m asking for wisdom here.
 

jason_

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grand rapids michigan
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2015 s wagon dsg
If it's a cheap wheel bearing it'll be pressed together. Pop it apart and see if the race and bearings are pitted.

Every brake job on rotors and drums I always bump the non weared edges with a grinder

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FrankenAudi

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01 Audi Quattro Allroad 6Mt.
I have 2 Subaru Forester 98 and 01 5 speed and have done the rear and front on the Subaru ,, not an easy job either. First get the rear passenger wheel jacked off the ground .block wheels take emergency brake off and see how much play there is in wheel as you grab wheel side to side and top to bottom , if there is play in the wheel , then that is mostly it , it is a known weakness , mind started on the same rear passenger side,, you can go to the Subaru forum and get pictures and step by step tips. Sometimes i would drive down the road about 30mph and do an left to right with the steering wheel and listen to the noise change as u put load on the right side and took it off.
 

2000alhVW

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Silver Spring, MD
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2000 Golf
I’m a decently adept mechanic with the fundamentals. Checking 6&12, 3&9 for play in the bearing. I’m also aware on rear wheel bearings you can sometimes detect play axially by pulling in and out.
I checked the rear wheels for play and couldn’t find any noticeable amount.
Gonna pull the wheels off again and look for fresh contact marks
 

eddieleephd

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2002 jetta Wagon
The reason for it presenting after the brake work is that the brakes are once again what they're intended to be. Often repairing one part causes another associated to present. I call bushings also though because they like to cause each other pain if not replaced together.
The suspension and everything should be renewed together in my opinion. If he's interests in the vehicle, being a Subaru and all, it should be replaced front and back. Bearings all together would be best, but make sure the suspension isn't causing it like a broken spring or sway bar link.
Seen that to on Subie

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FrankenAudi

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Durham,Ont.
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01 Audi Quattro Allroad 6Mt.
I’m a decently adept mechanic with the fundamentals. Checking 6&12, 3&9 for play in the bearing. I’m also aware on rear wheel bearings you can sometimes detect play axially by pulling in and out.
I checked the rear wheels for play and couldn’t find any noticeable amount.
Gonna pull the wheels off again and look for fresh contact marks
Are they Drum / or disc ??
Did u Check the rear cv boot and axle??
 

2000alhVW

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Silver Spring, MD
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2000 Golf
Did u Check the rear cv boot and axle??
I have not yet done any digging deeper than removing rotors and having a quick look.

I think there is some sort of play/shifting.
When I first finished the brakes, the old shims had somehow moved over and were actually grazing the rotors. I found this out when I did the original test drive. There was a gentle scraping that got MUCH worse when turning left or right.
I removed the shims, and the scraping is gone, but it's troublesome to me that making a turn would cause things to shift between the hub, caliper, rotor, and etc...

I'm trying to think of ways to diagnose the wheel bearing for wear. I can't rotate the wheel freely because Subaru axles stay "engage" even when trans is in neutral?
Not sure whats going on here...Raised car, E-brake off, trans in neutral, still takes a lot of effort to turn wheel.
 

oilhammer

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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
There are lots of crappy Chinastop brake rotors that will not seat squarely on the hubs and cause the parking brake shoes to rub on the inside of the hat.

It will typically leave some witness marks on the edge of the shoe. You may also make sure the parking brake shoes did not get dislodged from their perches and that they are adjusted properly. Again, many Chinastop rotors may not be made the exact same dimensions as the originals.

If the noise suddenly started after a brake job, I doubt it is the wheel bearing. Although wheel bearings are common failure items on these cars.
 

FrankenAudi

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Location
Durham,Ont.
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01 Audi Quattro Allroad 6Mt.
I have not yet done any digging deeper than removing rotors and having a quick look.
I think there is some sort of play/shifting.
When I first finished the brakes, the old shims had somehow moved over and were actually grazing the rotors. I found this out when I did the original test drive. There was a gentle scraping that got MUCH worse when turning left or right.
I removed the shims, and the scraping is gone, but it's troublesome to me that making a turn would cause things to shift between the hub, caliper, rotor, and etc...
I'm trying to think of ways to diagnose the wheel bearing for wear. I can't rotate the wheel freely because Subaru axles stay "engage" even when trans is in neutral?
Not sure whats going on here...Raised car, E-brake off, trans in neutral, still takes a lot of effort to turn wheel.

Here !https://www.subaruforester.org/vbul...ls-when-turning-diy-backing-plate-fix-206577/
 

2000alhVW

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Silver Spring, MD
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2000 Golf
There are lots of crappy Chinastop brake rotors that will not seat squarely on the hubs and cause the parking brake shoes to rub on the inside of the hat.
It will typically leave some witness marks on the edge of the shoe. You may also make sure the parking brake shoes did not get dislodged from their perches and that they are adjusted properly. Again, many Chinastop rotors may not be made the exact same dimensions as the originals.
If the noise suddenly started after a brake job, I doubt it is the wheel bearing. Although wheel bearings are common failure items on these cars.
I'm with you on this one. This is where I'm leaning. Maybe a slightly warped or distorted rotor causing some issues.

I admit, I advised the owner to go with Nakamoto pads & rotors as I had an extremely good experience with them on my 2 MK4s.
I found them on eBay (I know.) - $90 shipped for pads and rotors on all 4 corners. The vendor had a surprising reputation, account age, feedback score etc. But what really got my attention was the abundant claims at superior quality, 10 year warranty, etc.
I slapped them on my Golf about 4 months ago and I think they're nothing short of stellar.
Then a month later I was a return customer - the same kit for my '03 Jetta.
Again, same findings. Both times during the install, I inspected closely for crappy manufacturing hints, subpar materials, etc etc.
Nothing I could find. Beautifully machined and proper weight.

I didn't do such a close inspection the 3rd time here, but I'll get to the bottom of it eventually.

Nakamoto - a Chinese eBay brand with a name! https://nakamotousa.com/#about-us
Thanks for that thread. The owner did some searches of her own, and regurgitated "backing plate" and similar to me. Good to have the actual thread though
 
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FrankenAudi

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I recall having the same issue - Rubbing ,, several years ago ,, i just remember grinding something down,,in that area,, but can recall what it was. MY Forester has 255k Miles,, and i still love, it ,of course it has upgraded mods.

It may have been inside the rear brake drum rubbing inside against the back plate ,,u should see some marks where it is rubbing ,, just grind the drum lip down enough to stop the rubbing.
 
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2000alhVW

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Silver Spring, MD
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2000 Golf
lol...

This owner is such a caricature of a Subaru owner. 50 year old, highly educated woman, who's crazy, single, and has a dog. Wears sandals all the time. Spends $1500 at the dealer, on a 17 y/o car, for a new starter to be put in every 4 years.

She got in some weird accident, tore off the front fender, bashed in the rear quarter. Paid me to put duct tape over it and slap the body cladding back on so "maybe she won't get pulled over".
"Just until my new car gets delivered"

She waited 3 months until the 2019 Foresters came to dealers (because, of course, she can't drive anything but a Su-bah-roo). She would not settle for a 2018, because of the 1mpg difference, and Apple car play addition to the 2019 model year. "They're re-vamping the whole car for 2019. It's silly to buy a '18".

Meanwhile, she's driving a duct taped car to her $200k/yr job. 5 speed, by the way. Because she didn't trust automatics when she bought it in 2001.

So...November comes and her, brand new, 2019 Forester gets delivered.
She paid the dealer to drive it to her house because she "just couldn't do it".
She now parks the new car in the garage, permanently, and continues to drive the old one to work every day.
She mainly parks the car in the garage because she's scared to let rain get on it.
I kid you not, when we shuffled the old one in the garage for me to do the brakes (1-car garage), she ran out of the house (while on a conference call for work) to put a tarp over the new car because her dog barked with a "specific tone" that usually means it will rain soon. She also detected a slight bit of howl in her dog's bark, and that sometimes indicates hail. I had to use the absolute best of my calming abilities for that conversation.

It's been 6 weeks and the new car has ~50 miles.

Did I mention she's single?
 

FrankenAudi

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01 Audi Quattro Allroad 6Mt.
She loves her Scubby , I still have my original starter 18yrs old still cranks over at -26 ,I am 60,, and single , not that i have be , i chose to be ,, people have tried ,and tried to set me up , they just don't gett it , i like it this way,, i still build and ride mountain and fat bikes ,, Getter fixed shes grown to attached to it and not ready for the New Girl/Dude.LOL
 

2000alhVW

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Aug 30, 2018
Location
Silver Spring, MD
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2000 Golf
UGH!!
Spent another 2.5 hours removing everything and inspecting it all painstakingly slowly.
Scanned over every nook and cranny with a focused-beam flash light to check for scratches, fresh wear marks, scrapes, etc.
Carefully scan rotors, compare to old rotors, scan calipers, brake pads, hubs, parking brake shoes, backing plate, wheels.

I tried everything. Free-spinning bare hub. Free spinning with rotor on loose. Free spinning with rotor tightened down, using old rotor flipped around for a spacer. With caliper on loose. Caliper on tight. With wheel mounted.
I must have been 30 minutes in total free-spinning the damn hub in different configurations.

I find nothing.
I use a wire brush and scrub down the rust-bubbling backing plate just for good measure.

Finally put it back together and go for a drive, fingers crossed.

WHOMP WHOMP WHOMP
:mad::mad:

Take my dad for a ride and do figure-8s in a parking lot. "I'm telling you it's a wheel bearing"
But I already yanked on the rear hubs every which way and there's no play!
"Did you pull on them with the caliper remove, wheel bolted back on? The caliper will block movement and hide a bad bearing. Here, watch this"
So he gets out and starts rocking the car by the roof rack. "And the wheel bearing goes *thunk thunk"

I go back, take everything apart...again. Remove caliper, bolt wheel back on, check 3/9 and in&out

THUNK THUNK THUNK

The owner happened to be standing there at the time, watching. "Hear that? That is 100%, definitely your wheel bearing with play in it."

She says, "Oh. That would make sense. I had the other one replaced in 2011 and they told me that one sounded weird too. And someone mentioned it again in 2016. Oh well"

:mad::mad: **** **** ****


CASE CLOSED
 

2000alhVW

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Aug 30, 2018
Location
Silver Spring, MD
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2000 Golf
Bonus story:

I replaced her starter in September because the old one was intermittently bad and sounded awful. When consulting with me, I said "Makes sense. 17 years/130k miles is reasonable for the original I guess."
Her reply: "Oh no. This is my 5th starter. My first one lasted 10 years, but I've needed a new one every ~2 years since. I'd like you to do it since it's $1800 a pop at the dealer"
:eek:

This is AFTER the accident, mind you. While she's in "I'm not putting anymore money into it" mode on repeat

So I quote her $200 - A $90 rockauto new starter, and $100 for me to do it.
While I'm in there, I took some pictures of her flywheel just in effort to be 'comprehensive'.


Flywheel looks okay to me. I'm no expert. I saw the chew marks on the teeth and thought "eh...seems reasonable for 17years/130k I suppose."
New starter. Sounds much better. Works as intended.

I'm doing the brakes for her, which started this saga. We're going back and forth about the wheel bearing. And she whips out her phone and immediately pulls up all service records on her phone. Any little thing that's ever been done.
"I write it all in first-person narrative. It works better for me that way".

She's going down this list, and it's like never ending. blah blah in november. blah blah in sept. August. May. Feb. Jan.
Through every year.
She's been to the dealer something like 8 times per year for the entire life of the car.
They're on a first name basis.

THEN
She asks me about the flywheel. "The car sounds funny when it starts again."
'I noticed a little something...' I said to her, when really what I was thinking was "well...yeah I did notice how you held the starter engaged for about 3 seconds after the engine had started..."

She says "it's just weird. I had you do the starter in Sept. And the dealer replaced the flywheel in May."
aklghasdgajhgag WUT??? :eek:

'....oh. Have you had the clutch replaced on this then...?'
You know, because, in my automotive experience (primarily Japanese vehicles) clutches are expected to last at least 150k.

"OH YEAH! Loads of times."

'I'm sorry... What? You've had the clutch replaced 'loads of times'? (137k on the clock at this point, btw)

"Uh-huh. When the dealer clutches lasted 20,000, I was a bit skeptical, but I've gone to Indy's too and seems 20k is the rule"

'Yeah...I, uh, suppose that's city drivin' for ya... And, uh, what was it you said about the flywheel?' (trying to mentally collect my composure at this point)

"Well it was replaced in May, then back in August 2016, Feb 2014, June 2012, Dec 2010, May 2008...." And it goes on, and on.

'And they're replacing it...? Are you sure it's not "inspection" or "flywheel was machined and turned" getting lost in translation here?'

"No. They replace at least 1 flywheel per clutch job. It's a mandatory part of the job. Sometimes it's the slave cylinder flywheel, sometimes it's the clutch flywheel, and sometimes it's the engine flywheel. The invoice shows the part number, and it's usually $300"

At this point, I'm certain I'm dreaming and just reply matter-of-factly:
'Well, yeah that sounds about right for a new flywheel'

She messaged me this morning saying that she contacted the dealer, and they want her to bring it in immediately as they're worried she got a bad flywheel.
I wonder if that's code for "oh **** she knows we never replaced it!"
 
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eddieleephd

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Location
Asheville, NC
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2002 jetta Wagon
I would call her back and tell her to start a law suit against them for their horrible service, and offer to be a witness.

Then I would recommend she never see that dealer for anything, especially a new car!

Next time you have half as much of an issue, ask be for a print out from the dealership they took it to. I like telling of incompetent techs.

Years ago my Georgia mom took her truck to have the steering gear replaced. A couple days later she said it was making weird noises. I get under and look up, immediately I see the nut was about to fall off under the tie rod. I tightened it up by hand and we drive immediately to the shop, where I spoke very shortly with the owner of the shop and he apologized repeatedly and endured it would be fixed immediately and agreed that there was absolutely no reasonable excuse.
Just guess what I would do to that dealership if that was my mother. She would never pay for a service there again and all's they works be trusted for is oil change and tires.

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2000alhVW

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Aug 30, 2018
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Silver Spring, MD
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2000 Golf
I would call her back and tell her to start a law suit against them for their horrible service, and offer to be a witness.

Then I would recommend she never see that dealer for anything, especially a new car!

Next time you have half as much of an issue, ask be for a print out from the dealership they took it to. I like telling of incompetent techs.

Years ago my Georgia mom took her truck to have the steering gear replaced. A couple days later she said it was making weird noises. I get under and look up, immediately I see the nut was about to fall off under the tie rod. I tightened it up by hand and we drive immediately to the shop, where I spoke very shortly with the owner of the shop and he apologized repeatedly and endured it would be fixed immediately and agreed that there was absolutely no reasonable excuse.
Just guess what I would do to that dealership if that was my mother. She would never pay for a service there again and all's they works be trusted for is oil change and tires.

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I think we're on slightly different wavelengths here.
As I see it, you're making 2 valid points:
  1. The dealership is ripping her off/being deceptive/shady/etc
  2. They need to be called out on said shadiness

While these things may be valid, the woman here is not innocent. She is an awful driver. Extremely rough on her vehicles (without being aware of it). She's oblivious of her abuse, but also hyper-sensitive to issues when they arise. She is also incredibly difficult to deal with, and exceedingly neurotic (see above posts...) She told me that she once had 9 different tree companies come out and give her estimates to have a tree taken down in her back yard. NINE estimates...
I'm sure there have been times where, let's say, she demanded a new intake manifold because "the engine sounds loud". The dealer is confused, but does it anyway. They have now just unknowingly entered a contract where she will call them 10 times, and return the car 3 times under the claim of "I can still hear the air moving. I'm not satisfied".

She is not a b**** at all. Nor is she malicious, vindictive, etc. She's...just...crazy. AND she's a lawyer. :D

As far as the clutch jobs go, I really don't doubt her going through a clutch every 20-35k miles. I do have some doubt over the flywheel being replaced as often as her receipts show.
Which, yes, certainly needs to be brought up and discussed.

To answer you: point 1 - Ripped off? Well, yeah, it's a dealership. Purposely deceptive? Possibly, but maybe 20% worth, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and chalk the flywheel up to a 'warranty claim' if they choose.
point 2 - bring attention to it? Eh sure. If it was out of warranty, I would let it settle as a "and this, folks, is why you don't go to dealers" life lesson, but I don't think legal action is in accordance here.
 

eddieleephd

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Joined
May 27, 2012
Location
Asheville, NC
TDI
2002 jetta Wagon
Heard, and definitely understood.
She's a lawyer? Then let her pay for it.

Be well, and hope your new year is great!

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FrankenAudi

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Location
Durham,Ont.
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01 Audi Quattro Allroad 6Mt.
Ya head gaskets were a key known issue , I did my own 0n my 01 Forester,, i still have original Starter, Flywheel resurfaced and new stage 1 clutch last year ,, 252k miles. I just hope she doesn't see any of your post hear!! LOL :eek::p
 

2000alhVW

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Aug 30, 2018
Location
Silver Spring, MD
TDI
2000 Golf
I'm curious- has she ever had the headgaskets and timing belt done?
LOL... 'has she had the head gaskets taken care of?' he asks.

You guys just keep opening up the can of worms here.
I kid you not - she wrangled with Subaru corporate and got them to warranty both heads, brand new, when it started out as a head gasket claim and escalated. The car had 99,000 miles.
Additionally, she has gotten them to replace her entire exhaust system - headers to muffler tip when it originated as a catalytic converter claim. I think that was like 120k miles. Can't quite remember.

I think in both instances she got all parts 100% free, and only paid like 30% labor or something.

Timing belt? Not sure. I can only assume it was replaced when the heads were done. Otherwise, I'd expect her to have had it done every [insert mileage/age interval minus 15% because 'what if'].

Ya head gaskets were a key known issue , I did my own 0n my 01 Forester,, i still have original Starter, Flywheel resurfaced and new stage 1 clutch last year ,, 252k miles. I just hope she doesn't see any of your post hear!! LOL :eek::p
Lol. I had the same thought.
 

eddieleephd

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Joined
May 27, 2012
Location
Asheville, NC
TDI
2002 jetta Wagon
Wow, sorry for your frustrations.

Now I definitely recommend you charge for what you're worth and definitely full Subaru price for parts!
Be well my friend

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Tdijarhead

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Lawrenceville PA
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2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Daughters car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Your experience makes for entertaining stories.



I know a couple of people like this, they get what they want by wearing you down. When you see them coming you look for a way to avoid them, think Subaru corporate and the dealer. Perhaps if the dealer is padding their parts list they feel it is just recompense for having to put up with all the grief that she gives them.



Interesting that she can smoke a clutch every 30k miles or so. Definitely wouldn't want to ride with her.
 

FrankenAudi

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2018
Location
Durham,Ont.
TDI
01 Audi Quattro Allroad 6Mt.
Your experience makes for entertaining stories.



I know a couple of people like this, they get what they want by wearing you down. When you see them coming you look for a way to avoid them, think Subaru corporate and the dealer. Perhaps if the dealer is padding their parts list they feel it is just recompense for having to put up with all the grief that she gives them.



Interesting that she can smoke a clutch every 30k miles or so. Definitely wouldn't want to ride with her.
YA you would be wearing your coffee and chokin on a DoNut and havin the need to take a pee.:eek:
 

2000alhVW

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Location
Silver Spring, MD
TDI
2000 Golf
Your experience makes for entertaining stories.



I know a couple of people like this, they get what they want by wearing you down. When you see them coming you look for a way to avoid them, think Subaru corporate and the dealer. Perhaps if the dealer is padding their parts list they feel it is just recompense for having to put up with all the grief that she gives them.



Interesting that she can smoke a clutch every 30k miles or so. Definitely wouldn't want to ride with her.
I think the dealership is likely guilty of this, because she is tiring to deal with.
Again, she's not vindictive, manipulative, or anything else. None of this is an intention tactic or "scheme" on her part.
She's just neurotic.
I'm sure there are times she's dropped her car off for...a ball joint replacement, and called them back 7 times before the end of the day because "well the 7-11 cashier said maybe it's my blinker fluid. Can you look at that instead?" or "Are you sure it's a Subaru part? I get scared of these counterfeit chinese parts going around" or "I just wanted to call and make sure nothing bad happened to my car. It's very important I don't miss work tomorrow" and then "I was told my car would be done in '3 hours'. I dropped it off at 1:42pm, and it's now 4:43 and I haven't heard back. It didn't get stolen did it?"

She's definitely interesting, and dealing with her is a mental exercise, but I'm it keeps me flexible!
 
Joined
Aug 19, 2012
Location
Vancouver
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03 Golf TDI GLS
I would start by checking sway bar bushings and end links. They make a lot of noise inside the car even with a little play.

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