Cranks but no start, gauge cluster not turning on and no OBD2 comm.

[imo000]

Good afternoon everyone. It's been a while since I've posted but today I ran into an issue with my car (2005 Passat TDI with a 5-speed manual swap) that I can't figure out. Battery is fully charge, when turning the ignition key I can hear some relays clicking under the dash. The key would turn on the starter and crank over the engine (sounds like it has compression) but the engine would not start. When the key is on, engine off, the gauge cluster doesn't display any of the warning lights, the clock and mileage/odo is displayed and the left and right signal indicator is displayed when the stalk is on. However, nothing else is displayed. When I connect a scanner to the ODB2 port it can't establish communication. Also, the window buttons are not working now either. Recently the fuel gauge was erratic to display the level. Over the last few years, every now and then, the gangues would reset itself (resets the time, mileage/odo and all gauges would sweep as if they powered off for a couple of seconds before coming back to life. The gauge self-reset would happen regardless if the engine was running or not (did it randomly). None of this self-reset effected engine operation in any way. Also, several years ago the comfort module under the driver seat got wet for standing water under the driver seat. I've dried the comfort module out back then and relocated it under the dash to keep it away from the floor of the car. Anyone had experience with something like this or has an idea where I should start looking? Any help is appreciated.

 

[Mozambiquer]

Good afternoon everyone. It's been a while since I've posted but today I ran into an issue with my car (2005 Passat TDI with a 5-speed manual swap) that I can't figure out. Battery is fully charge, when turning the ignition key I can hear some relays clicking under the dash. The key would turn on the starter and crank over the engine (sounds like it has compression) but the engine would not start. When the key is on, engine off, the gauge cluster doesn't display any of the warning lights, the clock and mileage/odo is displayed and the left and right signal indicator is displayed when the stalk is on. However, nothing else is displayed. When I connect a scanner to the ODB2 port it can't establish communication. Also, the window buttons are not working now either. Recently the fuel gauge was erratic to display the level. Over the last few years, every now and then, the gangues would reset itself (resets the time, mileage/odo and all gauges would sweep as if they powered off for a couple of seconds before coming back to life. The gauge self-reset would happen regardless if the engine was running or not (did it randomly). None of this self-reset effected engine operation in any way. Also, several years ago the comfort module under the driver seat got wet for standing water under the driver seat. I've dried the comfort module out back then and relocated it under the dash to keep it away from the floor of the car. Anyone had experience with something like this or has an idea where I should start looking? Any help is appreciated.

Check the relays in the ecm box. I had that one fail on mine. Any moisture can cause it to corrode and fail.

 

[imo000]

Sorry for the weird question, it's been a while since I've been in there. This is in the cowl on the driver side?

 

[Mozambiquer]

Sorry for the weird question, it's been a while since I've been in there. This is in the cowl on the driver side?

Thats correct..its a little bit of a pain to get the cover off. Pull it off and its the relays right by the ECM in there.

 

[imo000]

Ok thanks. I will have a look at it tomorrow after work.

 

[imo000]

Pulled most of the ECU cover bolts off and got the ECU put without disconnecting. Checked the fuses, all OK and the relay didn't look corroded either. Did a little more testing. Key on, engine off, the gauge clusture backlighting works and also displays the high beams, signals and the clock/odo. The power windows don't work but the radio and fan control works. All fuses in the cockpit are fine. The power bus at the bottom of the relay board has power. The yellow one doesnhave power when the key is out of the lock cylinder, the rest do. Does the OBD2 communication goes through the gauge cluster? Also, what powers the gauge cluster?

 

[caffeine]

Pulled most of the ECU cover bolts off and got the ECU put without disconnecting. Checked the fuses, all OK and the relay didn't look corroded either. Did a little more testing. Key on, engine off, the gauge clusture backlighting works and also displays the high beams, signals and the clock/odo. The power windows don't work but the radio and fan control works. All fuses in the cockpit are fine. The power bus at the bottom of the relay board has power. The yellow one doesnhave power when the key is out of the lock cylinder, the rest do. Does the OBD2 communication goes through the gauge cluster? Also, what powers the gauge cluster?

I don't know specifically about how the Passat is wired, but the Mk4 platform cars use roughly the same hardware for the cluster, and the K-line OBD2 data does indeed go through the cluster. Another symptom you have of a failed cluster is the fact that the power windows don't work. The cluster sends a signal to the CCM when the key is turned to the 'on' position to enable use of the power windows/mirrors and other functions controlled by the CCM. Normally the stock radio also gets its turn-on signal from the cluster, but if you have an aftermarket radio, it may be hard-wired instead of using a CAN-bus interpreter.

The reason for cranking and no start could be because the cluster has failed and is unable to process the key signal for the immobilizer to function.

 

[PickleRick]

Relay 219 I believe powers the ECU. Without it you'll get crank no start. I can't remember if the tach still moves when it's acting up but you'll get no cel (don't know about other lights)

Pull it, tap it hard upside down on asphalt or concrete then reinstall. See if it starts. I had it fail on my Passat. The trick lasted me for a good 9 months before it would act up occasionally with zero warning. Went from no starts to cutting off while driving.

 

[imo000]

That 219 relay is by the ECU or in the relay panel under the steering column? The radio is a factory stock one that came with the car when it was built.

 

[PickleRick]

By the ECU

 

[imo000]

Took the 219 relay out, removed the cover, cleaned the contacts but it didn't make a difference. Is the relay supposed to get energized when the key is in the ignition and the engine is cranking by the starter?

 

[PickleRick]

I've never tested the relay so I couldn't tell you. A long time trick on them is hitting them upside down on concrete or asphalt then reinstalling.

 

[imo000]

I don't hear the lift pump priming when the ignition key is on the ACC position. Where does the pump gets the signal from?

 

[A4QTDI]

I don't hear the lift pump priming when the ignition key is on the ACC position. Where does the pump gets the signal from?

Ecu, it send power to pump relay, pump relay send power to pump. Ecu power relay is also in series with pump relay. No power to ecu, no power to pump.

 

[Nevada_TDI]

Have you checked fuse #11?

 

[imo000]

What powers the lift pump? I don't hear it priming anymore

 

[imo000]

I will check it tomorrow

 

[CasaEd]

If you need to check power at the ECU plug remove the 81pin plug from the ECU and ground pin 18 with the ignition on, You should now have , 12v on pins 1+2 of the same plug. Pins 3+4 are earth. If you ground pin 80 you should then be able to check the fuel pump runs. If none of this works you need to check the relays inside the car. You have to remove the lower panel below the steering wheel to do this.

 

[imo000]

Have you checked fuse #11

Fuse #11 in the fuse panel is not populated and it never was. Doesn't have any pins either. The fuse panel cover showes this location as the cruise control symbol.

I will check the ECU 80 pin in the next couple of days.

 

[Nevada_TDI]

I goofed I thought you had an ALH.

 

[imo000]

Looks like the gauge clusture is the problem. Are there any reputable shops in Canada or US that refurbishes these clustures?

 

[caffeine]

Looks like the gauge clusture is the problem. Are there any reputable shops in Canada or US that refurbishes these clustures?

Check out kw1281test and dashdumpedit. You can then just grab a cluster from a junkyard and copy the immobilizer data over as needed/clone the odo reading.

 

[Mozambiquer]

I've got a good cluster on a car I'm parting out. Can ship with the skc and the odometer cleared and ready for programming with vcds.

 

[imo000]

I've got a good cluster on a car I'm parting out. Can ship with the skc and the odometer cleared and ready for programming with vcds.

Can you do the programming of your gauges if I send you my clusture?

 

[Mozambiquer]

Can you do the programming of your gauges if I send you my clusture?

I know I can do some. Are you meaning programming in the mileage and etc? That I can do, but pairing the immobilizer is done on the car with vcds.

 

[caffeine]

I know I can do some. Are you meaning programming in the mileage and etc? That I can do, but pairing the immobilizer is done on the car with vcds.

If the original cluster is still readable, the immobilizer data can be copied from one to the other so that programming is not necessary with VCDS.

 

[PickleRick]

You can reset mileage on a Passat cluster with vcds? I've got a Passat cluster in another vehicle that should read over 300,000 miles and would love to change my cluster over to what the rig supposed to have. My Passat cluster is 130,000 miles short of that.

 

[caffeine]

You can reset mileage on a Passat cluster with vcds? I've got a Passat cluster in another vehicle that should read over 300,000 miles and would love to change my cluster over to what the rig supposed to have. My Passat cluster is 130,000 miles short of that.

Not with VCDS. If your send me an EEPROM dump from it (use kw1281test which is free), I'll send you a binary file with corrected mileage.

If the mileage is set to zero with a 3rd party tool, only then can VCDS set the mileage (and only in multiples of 10).

 

[Mozambiquer]

You can reset mileage on a Passat cluster with vcds? I've got a Passat cluster in another vehicle that should read over 300,000 miles and would love to change my cluster over to what the rig supposed to have. My Passat cluster is 130,000 miles short of that.

Yes, I use kw1281test and set it to zero. You can then program the mileage with kw1281test or with vcds.

 

[imo000]

I know I can do some. Are you meaning programming in the mileage and etc? That I can do, but pairing the immobilizer is done on the car with vcds.

I meant the pairing. I don't have VCDS or the knowledge how to do the pairing. This is the reason I would rather send the clusture off for refurbishing.