trans removal and clutch replacement.

[GlowBugTDI]

I got the trans out. took me about 2.5hrs so not bad tho trying to get it out onto the ground is a pain!! I got it completely unbolted then for some reason spent forever trying to get it over and off the subframe.... took forever and had to rotate it forward a bunch.

Now to the real reason for the thread.
I got it out and here is what the clutch look like. I think its toast? looks a lil burnt to me.
the rear main seal is completely dry and looks fine. I have a Victor Reinz one coming though so I will replace anyway. I also have a input shaft seal coming as well that I will replace.
It looks to me that I will need a new pressure plate and need the flywheel resurfaced. Does the clutch look ok to use again, or should i replace the whole thing? any other thoughts or comments welcome.

 

[GlowBugTDI]

20220809_115949.jpg

• GlowBugTDI
• Aug 9, 2022

20220809_120005.jpg

• GlowBugTDI
• Aug 9, 2022

20220809_120013.jpg

• GlowBugTDI
• Aug 9, 2022

20220809_120015.jpg

• GlowBugTDI
• Aug 9, 2022

20220809_120147.jpg

• GlowBugTDI
• Aug 9, 2022

20220809_120138.jpg

• GlowBugTDI
• Aug 9, 2022

The bell housing is a lil wet. Maybe from the input seal, but that should be taken care of here after.

 

[Windex]

What was the reason for dropping the trans? Was there any issue with the clutch? You were just bored one day and decided to pull the transmission?

 

[GlowBugTDI]

What was the reason for dropping the trans? Was there any issue with the clutch? You were just bored one day and decided to pull the transmission?

Clutch was slipping a lil bit. Thought maybe rear main seal as the bell housing was wet
Clutch slip this was one of the worse amounts of slippage
This is more normal ish. sometimes it slips sometimes it wouldn't

 

[GlowBugTDI]

Clutch and flywheel looks like this video

 

[Johhny04]

What was the reason for dropping the trans? Was there any issue with the clutch? You were just bored one day and decided to pull the transmission?

This https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?threads/south-bend-stage-2-daily-friction-plate.523418/

 

[Windex]

Okee dokee.

Thanks for the pics and video.

If you weren't having issues with slippage, I would say that clutch looks like a normal, albeit worn (not worn out) clutch.

The discoloration on the pressure plate and flywheel look normal, maybe a little on the hot side, but nothing awful.

That said, the point is moot. you have slip, and the clutch is out.

replace the clutch (I am quite partial to the LUK 17-050 set - good torque holding (STGII in my case) and the DMF makes the car smoother overall, plus it comes at a good price last I checked.

I would personally change out the input (as you are already doing) shaft seal and the rear main, even though it is not yet leaking.

I just like to cover all bases when I am in there, given the trans and flywheel are already out.

I'm cheap, so I would scuff/break the glaze on the flywheel with a 3M scotchbrite disc, but you may as well send it out to be machined if you have a shop that can do that for you anywhere close.

 

[GlowBugTDI]

Okee dokee.

Thanks for the pics and video.

If you weren't having issues with slippage, I would say that clutch looks like a normal, albeit worn (not worn out) clutch.

The discoloration on the pressure plate and flywheel look normal, maybe a little on the hot side, but nothing awful.

That said, the point is moot. you have slip, and the clutch is out.

replace the clutch (I am quite partial to the LUK 17-050 set - good torque holding (STGII in my case) and the DMF makes the car smoother overall, plus it comes at a good price last I checked.

I would personally change out the input (as you are already doing) shaft seal and the rear main, even though it is not yet leaking.

I just like to cover all bases when I am in there, given the trans and flywheel are already out.

I'm cheap, so I would scuff/break the glaze on the flywheel with a 3M scotchbrite disc, but you may as well send it out to be machined if you have a shop that can do that for you anywhere close.

Ok, yes I have a shop that i can have resurface it.

My car currently has pp520's and a malone stage 3. So I think im making right around in the 130-140hp range.
Should the LUK 17-050 hold that?
I would like to stick with this grade clutch or upgrade. If there is a cheaper option Im cool with that as long as it will hold the torque. I was looking at the sbc 2 endurace on idparts today. I like it, but its spendy lol.

The flywheel is a SBC SMF 22lb.
The kit is a south bend stage 2 daily with the 22lb flywheel. The kit only has about a pathetic 45k on it. So not even 100k miles. I don't know why it doesn't like me right now but its unhappy. I do know how to drive a manual. My last alh was stock I put almost 100k on and never had a clutch issue (had 260 something when i sold it). I also drove that one harder. I have been pretty decent to this car, other then needing the transmission replacement last winter (my bad) .

 

[oilhammer]

I never change those seals unless they are leaking, which I've yet to see one that was. And I just did the clutch on my 600k mile Golf... original rear main seal still in place.

 

[GlowBugTDI]

I never change those seals unless they are leaking, which I've yet to see one that was. And I just did the clutch on my 600k mile Golf... original rear main seal still in place.

Ya, thats kinda what I didn't (and the car only has 190k). I figured if it started leaking at 400k+ then I'd do that when i get there. I bought one just in case it was bad. Now idk if i should replace or not as the original has no sign of leaking and the new is not oem.
I probably will replace it as its not worth pulling the trans again. I'll be to busy the next few years.

 

[GlowBugTDI]

So I ended up calling SBC again and instead of asking if they sell just the friction plate. I said that I would like to buy a friction plate for my clutch kit. Guess what they sold one to me! (Why you always call places 2 times) Guy was great and it ships out tomorrow.

250$ friction plate.
50$ flywheel resurface done at a local shop.
=300$
Vs.
450$ for clutch "rebuild" from SBC as they "don't really sell just the friction plate"
Which is dumb being its 60k rated lifespan.

"Savings" 150$ minus one achy lower back

 

[borninabus]

IMO:
that clutch disc looks fine.
the PP & flywheel need help.
i would also not replace the main seal...especially with a VR product in that application!

 

[GlowBugTDI]

IMO:
that clutch disc looks fine.
the PP & flywheel need help.
i would also not replace the main seal (especially with a VR product in that application).

Well I might as well replace it regardless as i have it apart. Yes, the pp and flywheel are being surfaced.

Do you have experience with VR, why do you not reccomend?
I have seen that some others use their rear main seal on the forums. I couldn't figure out what would be best other then the oem $100 one i didn't really feel like buying.

 

[borninabus]

i do have experience with VR main seals and i would not recommend them on any VW. EVER. sometimes they are the only game in town as far as gaskets/seals and i have used them with personal and professional success....but learned my lesson with their main seals many years ago. never again!

if i wanted to replace a main seal and it was available from VW, i wouldn't hesitate to pay the piper

 

[GlowBugTDI]

i do have experience with VR main seals and i would not recommend them on any VW. EVER. sometimes they are the only game in town as far as gaskets/seals and i have used them with personal and professional success....but learned my lesson with their main seals many years ago. never again!

if i wanted to replace a main seal and it was available from VW, i wouldn't hesitate to pay the piper

Ok, do you have any others you would recommend over vr?

 

[GlowBugTDI]

Mahle also has one. I use their oil filters and fuel filters but thats totally different. And it is just a filter...

 

[borninabus]

i am of oilhammer's opinion and i would not replace the main seal if it was not leaking and if i did, i would buy the one with the right circle logos on it.

some parts are not worth the "savings".

 

[GlowBugTDI]

Sooo, I brought the flywheel and pressure plate to the transmission shop to have them resurface the flywheel. While there I talked to the guy about what was going on amd he recommended replacing the pressure plate as well. He said that because of how the pressure plate breaks in to the friction plate the way it does, as the friction plate wears down a bit the fulcrum pivots or moves to grab better of the plate. Now that I would be putting in a new friction plate the pressure plate supposedly won't grab onto the new friction plate as well. I don't know how that os but thats what they told me? Anyone have any experience with doing clutch jobs, or just replacing a friction plate?
They thought that the friction plate looked ok (not terrible yet), so they were concerned for me that I would replace it and it would still slip as it wasn't grabbing this friction plate well. Its clearly only slipping a little bit and right at a specific torque level, but still...
The whole unit only has 40k on it so I have a hard time believing that the pressure plate is bad, but idk about this whole "fulcrum shifting" thing. Ive never heard of that.

In other words im confused, and if anyone has thoughts or ideas that would be great.

 

[jmodge]

Did it have oil on it, or was it slipping for another reason? Was the fluid you found on the inspection plug from inside the bell or did it run down from above? Point being, have you determined if the clutch failed from fluid contamination, if not then a component failed for another reason. If it burned from some other reason than fluid, something didn't hold the torque. Did the flywheel and pressure plate each burn? What's it worth to to you to put it back together and wonder? The vr6 clutch and flywheel set up from Idparts holds fine and is very tame. Money you can replace, time you can't. You have to decide based on your own circumstances which route you're comfortable with. Best advice I have for you.

 

[GlowBugTDI]

No oil on it. Rear main is spotless. Transmission side is a bit wet. I talked with another member and I'll find out tomorrow if its brake fluid or trans oil. Both the flywheel and pressure plate had slight burning on them. I agree with the time vs. wonder statement. Its starting to look like I may just replace the whole deal minus the flywheel.

 

[jmodge]

If it was me, I would leave the main seal, but replace the flywheel, pp, and disk. Along with the throwout bearing, throwout bearing guide with seal preinstalled, fork, ball pivot, and clip. But that's me, I wouldn't put any of potentially problematic parts back in there. I don't like pulling major components anymore.

 

[Windex]

Here's the thing about rear main leaks and input shaft seal leaks... When it comes to clutch contamination

Think about where the clutch surfaces are in relation to the rear main - they are on the other side of the flywheel. And, the flywheel is spinning any time the oil might be leaking (oil in the pan is not at the level of the rear main when the engine is not running).

So, even in the event of a profuse leak at the rear main, the oil is going to be flung out and congregate at the bottom of the bellhousing. Sure, a really bad leak might fling onto the top of the bellhousing and then might drip back onto the clutch, but that leak would be so severe you would be leaving a trail everywhere.

input shaft seal is just going to leak down the bellhousing and drip onto the ground.

As far as this clutch goes, sure the friction plate has some wear, and it's a good idea to replace it, but it's the pressure plate that provides the clamping force.

You already have slip - the friction plate if replaced on it's own will provide only a temporary reprieve from the slippage. I would replace the whole clutch assembly with something rated for the torque. Who the heck wants to pull the transmission every 40k?

 

[BobnOH]

Notes from ID Parts catalog-
Should easily hold up to 260 ft/lbs of torque
and from customer questions-
I would recommend this option, non-chipped in PD motors and slight chipped ALH motors but not a full on stage 2 or 3.

 

[jmodge]

Vr6 clutch, ALH with Firad 502’s, vnt-15, stage 3. Holds good even with light towing

 

[AndyBees]

This past week, I removed and replaced the transmission in my formerly owned 2000 Jetta (son owns it now). Teeth stripped out of the 5th gear Hub. It has 388k miles on it. Neither the input shaft seal or the rear main seal were leaking..... dry as a bone. The replacement transmission was dry also. So, I never changed the seals. I installed a new LUK DMF kit at 291k miles preemptively.

The appropriate LUK DMF can be had for less than $300......... sooth and quiet with good torque handling capabilities!

 

[turbocharged798]

Few things that experience has taught me:

Rear main seals rarely ever leak and last a long time. Leave it alone.

The input shaft seal on the transmission is more prone to leaking and will funnel oil right on to the clutch disk from the throw out bearing tube. If any doubt, replace this seal.

DMFs are all failure prone. I don't see any reason to ever put a DMF back in. A good SMF setup will outlast the car.

 

[GlowBugTDI]

Few things that experience has taught me:

Rear main seals rarely ever leak and last a long time. Leave it alone.

The input shaft seal on the transmission is more prone to leaking and will funnel oil right on to the clutch disk from the throw out bearing tube. If any doubt, replace this seal.

DMFs are all failure prone. I don't see any reason to ever put a DMF back in. A good SMF setup will outlast the car.

Ok, thank you.
Because the rear main looks perfect i decided to leave it. Ive seen a lit of threads where people replaced it then it started leaking.
I am still replacing the trans seal.
I bought a brand new SBC 2 daily.
I may have gone about this the wrong way, but i learned a lot. For instance i had no idea the rear main would leak on the ground a lot before the clutch could ever slip. I honestly never knew there were ports to access those oil pan bolts on the rear main. Now knowing that i never would have guessed the rear main was leaking.
I am hoping the new clutch kit fixes the issue otherwise i need to look into the hydraulic system. Either A the pressure plate failed, or B slave cyl or master is failing. But it doesn't leak so hopefully not that. From what several others have told me the friction disk looks fine, so it has to be something else.
I don't understand how a pressure plate fails, but....

 

[GlowBugTDI]

Probably one of those questions where you wonder if im competent enough to actually R&R a trans, but does the input shaft seal need to be completely dry. I only ask because the rear main does due to the teflon, but idk if the trans is the same and i can't find anywhere that says...

 

[oilhammer]

I used to be pretty anti-DMF too. However, two things have changed since they came along in the mid '90s. They have been improved, and the price has dropped dramatically.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

FWIW I have over 160K miles on the SBC Stage 2 Daily in my Wagon. Still works like new.