P204F00 fault, VW has no fix!

Tom in PT

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FWIW, I don't drive over 70 and never have had this code show up. Big knock on wood. I do drive relatively long distances occasionally and in cold weather. I did have the fix called for in the TSB mentioned in post # 117 above. I also keep the DEF tank topped up. Maybe there is some magic in this combination of circumstances.
 

DCoartney

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Eureka, IL
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2013 Volkswagen Passat TDI SEL
According to Kerma, it does fix these problems. Just waiting for my schedule to free up so I can get some time to do this. In the mean time, I just put up with the alerts. Long trips at higher speeds in cold temps always causes this for me. My local dealership has already replaced a few parts on mine two years ago but the software glitch is still there. Be nice if VW would help out with the real fix that a tune would provide. I'm sure the repairs VW has done already to my car far outweigh the cost of a tune.
The Peoria dealership diagnosed a need to replace the DEF injector and "reset the start block," whatever that is. VW Quality Technical Manager concurred. Repair performed. Drove around locally for three days before our daughter headed back to Milwaukee Sunday night. Somewhere between half to an hour into her trip, she called and said, "Guess what? Ten miles to no start." It went down to five and then zero before we hung up. She made it back to Milwaukee by not stopping. No start that night or next morning. Had to pay for tow to dealership, where it sits now. VW promised to pay for the rental car and the towing. No loaners available. Have filed the buyback documents as VW suggested. Waiting for diagnosis and a decision from the Regional Case Manager to whom it has been escalated.

Will Kerma or Malone tunes pass Milwaukee and seven southeast Wisconsin counties emissions tests?
 
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watatrp

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04 Jetta tdi (gone) 2013 Passat SEL TDI
The Peoria dealership diagnosed a need to replace the DEF injector and "reset the start block," whatever that is. VW Quality Technical Manager concurred. Repair performed. Drove around locally for three days before our daughter headed back to Milwaukee Sunday night. Somewhere between half to an hour into her trip, she called and said, "Guess what? Ten miles to no start." It went down to five and then zero before we hung up. She made it back to Milwaukee by not stopping. No start that night or next morning. Had to pay for tow to dealership, where it sits now. VW promised to pay for the rental car and the towing. No loaners available. Have filed the buyback documents as VW suggested. Waiting for diagnosis and a decision from the Regional Case Manager to whom it has been escalated.

Will Kerma or Malone tunes pass Milwaukee and seven southeast Wisconsin emissions tests?
Kerma has responded on this thread indicating that it will pass all emissions tests I believe. This is such a frustrating problem. All I want is a car that I can drive out of town and be assured that I can make it back home. Interesting that you actually got to the "no start". Mine never did that. I'm on the fence about my car. With only 67k miles on it, it's still in great shape. Rather than spend another $1k on a tune w/ the dsg tune I could put that into something else. This last weekend I made it 286 miles round trip with no problem but the temps were above 42 degrees. What does the buyback do for you? I think the only way I could go that route is if I would take it in every time I got the low def message which is probably a half dozen times since they replaced everything.
 

DCoartney

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Kerma has responded on this thread indicating that it will pass all emissions tests I believe. This is such a frustrating problem. All I want is a car that I can drive out of town and be assured that I can make it back home. Interesting that you actually got to the "no start". Mine never did that. I'm on the fence about my car. With only 67k miles on it, it's still in great shape. Rather than spend another $1k on a tune w/ the dsg tune I could put that into something else. This last weekend I made it 286 miles round trip with no problem but the temps were above 42 degrees. What does the buyback do for you? I think the only way I could go that route is if I would take it in every time I got the low def message which is probably a half dozen times since they replaced everything.
Good to know that the tune will pass emission tests. Thanks.

Dealer just called to say that they have diagnosed a bad NOx sensor. Part to arrived tomorrow. Will install, test drive, and call back.

Filing the buyback paperwork is supposed to at least refund us the rental and towing costs plus trigger a goodwill review to compensate us for the days we were without a loaner/rental.
 

DCoartney

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^^^
What happened to her with that 50 mile warning? Did you take it in? Was the warning still showing when if you took it in?

Did they confirm the issue?
Well, it's been in two different dealership service departments this month. First one replaced the DEF injector and reset the "start block" with VW Quality Technical Manager's approval. Less than an hour into a three hour trip, 10 miles to no start showed up out of the blue -- and it meant it. Made it home, no start, had to be towed to second dealership. They just called with bad NOx sensor diagnosis. Part to arrive tomorrow.
 

watatrp

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04 Jetta tdi (gone) 2013 Passat SEL TDI
Well, it's been in two different dealership service departments this month. First one replaced the DEF injector and reset the "start block" with VW Quality Technical Manager's approval. Less than an hour into a three hour trip, 10 miles to no start showed up out of the blue -- and it meant it. Made it home, no start, had to be towed to second dealership. They just called with bad NOx sensor diagnosis. Part to arrive tomorrow.
My dealer reset the adblue system twice and replaced the rear nox sensor and the nox catalyst. It lasted a few months with no faults until the weather got cold again.
 

DCoartney

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Now at third dealership service department, who just called to confirm that the turbocharger failed and is covered under the extended emissions warranty. Since the NOx sensor replacement, the false AdBlue warning has not recurred, but it's not cold weather now, and this was the first trip greater than half an hour.

This time, the glow plug warning started flashing, the engine lost power and started smoking, and our daughter had to limp it to the next exit. It likely threw a P0299 code, which it did about a year ago, but that one cleared itself. Transient wastegate malfunction, perhaps.

Our buyback request is still pending, with VW having requested copies of two service records yesterday.
 

DCoartney

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Buyback request denied.Three extended trips with no AdBlue warnings since the turbocharger was replaced, but the weather is warm now, so we won't know until next Fall if it is truly fixed. By then, the extended emissions warranty mileage limit may have been passed.

VW says they cannot reimburse us for the rental car directly; it has to be arranged by the dealer. The dealer wouldn't arrange the rental car because our daughter is not yet 21 or 25 or whatever it is. However, Enterprise would rent to her with a $25/day surcharge for her age.

The warranty states clearly that VW must provide a loaner vehicle when the repair is scheduled to take more than three hours. So, VW has violated the warranty three times over the last month with three separate dealers. Not happy with VW.
 

x1800MODMY360x

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AZ, USA
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2013 Passat TDI SEL
Buyback request denied.Three extended trips with no AdBlue warnings since the turbocharger was replaced, but the weather is warm now, so we won't know until next Fall if it is truly fixed. By then, the extended emissions warranty mileage limit may have been passed.

VW says they cannot reimburse us for the rental car directly; it has to be arranged by the dealer. The dealer wouldn't arrange the rental car because our daughter is not yet 21 or 25 or whatever it is. However, Enterprise would rent to her with a $25/day surcharge for her age.

The warranty states clearly that VW must provide a loaner vehicle when the repair is scheduled to take more than three hours. So, VW has violated the warranty three times over the last month with three separate dealers. Not happy with VW.
I would contact the CA attorneys to fight back on that issue. VW can't just make up clauses, they are bound by the lawsuit.
 

watatrp

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Buyback request denied.Three extended trips with no AdBlue warnings since the turbocharger was replaced, but the weather is warm now, so we won't know until next Fall if it is truly fixed. By then, the extended emissions warranty mileage limit may have been passed.

VW says they cannot reimburse us for the rental car directly; it has to be arranged by the dealer. The dealer wouldn't arrange the rental car because our daughter is not yet 21 or 25 or whatever it is. However, Enterprise would rent to her with a $25/day surcharge for her age.

The warranty states clearly that VW must provide a loaner vehicle when the repair is scheduled to take more than three hours. So, VW has violated the warranty three times over the last month with three separate dealers. Not happy with VW.
I would also contact an attorney or at least threaten them with that. When my car had to go in for repairs I did not even need to ask my dealership for a rental. They provided me with one. Drove it for 3 weeks. This really makes me question my desire to keep my car. I like it but don't want the headache of what will happen when the weather turns cold again.
 

DCoartney

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I would also contact an attorney or at least threaten them with that. When my car had to go in for repairs I did not even need to ask my dealership for a rental. They provided me with one. Drove it for 3 weeks. This really makes me question my desire to keep my car. I like it but don't want the headache of what will happen when the weather turns cold again.
Right. The Milwaukee dealership might have arranged a rental from Enterprise for our daughter, but they said that they couldn't because of her age. I don't know how much water that holds given the Enterprise office they normally work with was willing to rent to her directly with a $25/day surcharge for her age. Doesn't make sense that the dealership couldn't also arrange the same deal.

When I told them that they provided her with a loaner car the year before for six weeks, they replied that they should not have done that for liability insurance reasons.

I'm going to see if the Illinois Attorney General's office can help with this.
 

watatrp

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Right. The Milwaukee dealership might have arranged a rental from Enterprise for our daughter, but they said that they couldn't because of her age. I don't know how much water that holds given the Enterprise office they normally work with was willing to rent to her directly with a $25/day surcharge for her age. Doesn't make sense that the dealership couldn't also arrange the same deal.

When I told them that they provided her with a loaner car the year before for six weeks, they replied that they should not have done that for liability insurance reasons.

I'm going to see if the Illinois Attorney General's office can help with this.
Any updates on your situation?
 

DCoartney

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Any updates on your situation?
I received an email from VW on Tuesday requesting supporting documents for a second buyback request, which I will respond to tonight. Back when the Ottawa dealership service advisor called with the failed turbocharger diagnosis, she told me that the oil cooler was leaking, and it wasn't covered under the extended emissions warranty. I told her that I did not want to proceed with that repair because of the outstanding buyback request, and it wasn't losing oil. What she didn't tell me (but was stated on the service ticket) was that the oil cooler was leaking coolant, not oil. That explained why we were getting infrequent low coolant warnings and having to top up the reservoir. Shortly thereafter, it began losing coolant at a rapid rate.

So, $1,325 later, an independent German car garage in greater Milwaukee confirmed the leaking oil cooler and replaced it and the oil filter housing as an assembly. Since then, all is well after two extended trips. However, the 10,000 remaining miles on the warranty will likely be used up prior to cold weather.
 

Capt.Aidan

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Have had the same issues with my '15 Touareg. I've got the CEL followed by 350km no start countdown almost 10 times now over the last year and half (65000km). I'm at 225K kms now, and have replaced 2 front Nox sensors, 1 rear Nox sensor, Nox Catalyst, and oil cooler (unrelated, but including because last post had the same issue). After replacing the above under warranty on multiple occasions over the last year (60+ days in shop with no rental) they determined it was a vacuum leak on the EGR outlet pipe.

15k km later and I just got the countdown timer again, was on a long drive back from the cottage and hit zero before getting to my mechanic, tried restarting, and the treg is a brick.

Unlike most other people here, I've had the issues in all sorts of weather conditions from -20c to 30c while driving almost exclusively on freeways between 60-70mph. The common factor with my vehicle seems to be that the CEL and countdown comes almost exactly 300km after topping up the adblue. I'm going to be trying a tune, as pretty well everything else has been replaced at this point.
 

watatrp

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Have had the same issues with my '15 Touareg. I've got the CEL followed by 350km no start countdown almost 10 times now over the last year and half (65000km). I'm at 225K kms now, and have replaced 2 front Nox sensors, 1 rear Nox sensor, Nox Catalyst, and oil cooler (unrelated, but including because last post had the same issue). After replacing the above under warranty on multiple occasions over the last year (60+ days in shop with no rental) they determined it was a vacuum leak on the EGR outlet pipe.

15k km later and I just got the countdown timer again, was on a long drive back from the cottage and hit zero before getting to my mechanic, tried restarting, and the treg is a brick.

Unlike most other people here, I've had the issues in all sorts of weather conditions from -20c to 30c while driving almost exclusively on freeways between 60-70mph. The common factor with my vehicle seems to be that the CEL and countdown comes almost exactly 300km after topping up the adblue. I'm going to be trying a tune, as pretty well everything else has been replaced at this point.
Please let us know if the tune solves the problem. I'm on the fence for that right now. My extended warranty is still good so I'm waiting for that to run out. My driving in the warmer temps does not cause the "no start" warning. I do top off my adblue tank after every 300 mile trip but I've had my warnings come up whether I've just topped off the tank or not during cold weather. I would like to hear from a user that has had this problem and installed a tune to see if it really does fix the problem. Kerma says "YES" it does. Hate to invest $1000 for a tune and DSG tune and not fix the problem.
 

Capt.Aidan

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Please let us know if the tune solves the problem. I'm on the fence for that right now. My extended warranty is still good so I'm waiting for that to run out. My driving in the warmer temps does not cause the "no start" warning. I do top off my adblue tank after every 300 mile trip but I've had my warnings come up whether I've just topped off the tank or not during cold weather. I would like to hear from a user that has had this problem and installed a tune to see if it really does fix the problem. Kerma says "YES" it does. Hate to invest $1000 for a tune and DSG tune and not fix the problem.
Will do, this is the first time the issue has come up since I've switched from a dealer to a private VW/Audi specialist, so I'll report back with what he sees/thinks the problem is. The dealer I was working with prior was terribly unsupportive and seemingly incapable of diagnosing the issue properly.

Mine has pulled all the typical codes for these issues, p204F, p2OEE, P409f, etc. But the DeLaet replaced different things with the same codes coming up over the course of the year, does anyone know if all of these components (Nox sensors, cat, etc) have to be calibrated to eachother for proper operation of the system? Might explain why some of us are having related issues after replacing single components.
 

DCoartney

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2013 Volkswagen Passat TDI SEL
Well, the new turbo has apparently failed. Started losing power with flashing glow plug warning light. Pulled P0299 code again; turbocharger under-boost. Got a loaner car this time, but parts not available until September 1st. Have to call tomorrow, but wife says something about EGR, so I suspect they are replacing the EGR cooler, too.

Still waiting for decision on 2nd buyback request. Anybody know if owner is required to agree not to pursue reimbursement for lack of loaners, out-of-pocket rental car expense, and other expenses if accepting buyback offer? I want to be prepared for their deadline at end of this week. Also, anyone know of good Dieselgate attorneys in case we need to sue?
 

eugene89us

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2014 Volkswagen Passat TDI SEL Premium
@DCoartney It sounds like you're going through a lot with this car. It seems some have been luckier than others with NMS Passat, the other thread with high mileages prove that some can go far beyond expectations.

Now, I don't claim to be a car expert, but what comes to mind is a video by Diagnose Dan on YouTube. He was diagnosing second turbo failure, I believe in a petrol Audi, just a few days after dealer installed the replacement. He mentioned dealer's fallacy was that they did not investigate the CAUSE of failure, only treating the effect. What ended up happening was a clogged oil feed line to turbo. The old broke due to oil starvation. New was installed and again failed as the oil line was 100% clogged. Now, VW has a TSB that basically requires all lines to be replaced including oil pump. After all, turbos are not supposed to fail this early! Did you receive a copy of the work from the turbo replacement? Do you know if they completed any additional work beside turbo replacement itself?
 

DCoartney

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@DCoartney It sounds like you're going through a lot with this car. It seems some have been luckier than others with NMS Passat, the other thread with high mileages prove that some can go far beyond expectations.

Now, I don't claim to be a car expert, but what comes to mind is a video by Diagnose Dan on YouTube. He was diagnosing second turbo failure, I believe in a petrol Audi, just a few days after dealer installed the replacement. He mentioned dealer's fallacy was that they did not investigate the CAUSE of failure, only treating the effect. What ended up happening was a clogged oil feed line to turbo. The old broke due to oil starvation. New was installed and again failed as the oil line was 100% clogged. Now, VW has a TSB that basically requires all lines to be replaced including oil pump. After all, turbos are not supposed to fail this early! Did you receive a copy of the work from the turbo replacement? Do you know if they completed any additional work beside turbo replacement itself?
Yes, the prior turbocharger replacement on 2022.05.16 listed only the turbocharger, temperature sensor, and various nuts, bolts, screws, washers, gaskets, and clips, but no oil lines. At the dealership today, I was told that the Diesel particulate filter (DPF) was plugged, putting back pressure on the turbine side of the turbocharger, causing the bearings to fail. The DPF is the part that is unobtainable currently.
 

DCoartney

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Yes, the prior turbocharger replacement on 2022.05.16 listed only the turbocharger, temperature sensor, and various nuts, bolts, screws, washers, gaskets, and clips, but no oil lines. At the dealership today, I was told that the Diesel particulate filter (DPF) was plugged, putting back pressure on the turbine side of the turbocharger, causing the bearings to fail. The DPF is the part that is unobtainable currently.
The curious thing, however, is that killing and restarting the engine would clear both the flashing glow plug light and the under-boost symptom multiple times. If the turbocharger bearings have truly failed, restarting the engine should not regain full boost. Would the problem just be the DPF?
 

Tom in PT

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I just got this code for the first time yesterday, going up a very long, winding, dirt, steep mountain road, engine working at 2-3000 rpms. 200 miles to no start message. Since the local dealers are a long way away from me and I have neither the patience or trust in them to actually fix this issue I am going to be ordering the Kerma tune. I cleared the code and it did not come back so far. But I am parking it until the tune arrives.
 

watatrp

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I just got this code for the first time yesterday, going up a very long, winding, dirt, steep mountain road, engine working at 2-3000 rpms. 200 miles to no start message. Since the local dealers are a long way away from me and I have neither the patience or trust in them to actually fix this issue I am going to be ordering the Kerma tune. I cleared the code and it did not come back so far. But I am parking it until the tune arrives.
My experience is that the code clears itself randomly. I've read from others that sometimes it doesn't. Mine only starts the countdown when I'm driving on extended trips above 70 mph at temps below 40 degrees. Keep us posted. I'd like to know if it clears up your problem. Do you plan on getting the DSG tune also?
 

eugene89us

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@Tom in PT This will be the best decision for your Passat. It will resolve the error for sure and it will make the car fun to drive. Start with engine tune first. Then you can get DSG tune a bit later.
 

eugene89us

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The curious thing, however, is that killing and restarting the engine would clear both the flashing glow plug light and the under-boost symptom multiple times. If the turbocharger bearings have truly failed, restarting the engine should not regain full boost. Would the problem just be the DPF?
I am not as familiar with Passat's sensor array as I am with my diesel BMW, but on a BMW (using Bimmerlink app) I am able to check DPF differential pressure. Of course it rises at higher RPMs, but in general it remains low. I would check there. If differential pressure is overly large, that could signify clogged DPF. Also check your calculated ash level.

Here is mine at idle (800rpm):


And here at around 2000rpm:


I would let the experts chime in, but I would imagine that a clogged DPF would not allow turbine to speed up due to restricted exhaust flow. So it may not be turbo going bad, simply a clogged DPF causing issues. There are some places that can clean your DPF reasonably cheaply. And get you car back for a fraction of a cost.
 
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Tom in PT

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watatrp - I'm not going to go for the DSG tune at least right away. I don't need or want all the extra hp and tq that the tune is going to give me. I will take the mpg boost for sure, and hopefully restore the 4-5 mpg hit the Dieselgate emissions fix cost me. I'm only getting the Kerma engine tune to (hopefully) make long term ownership a rational proposition vis a vis the FUBAR emissions system, since my wife wants me to keep it.
 

watatrp

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watatrp - I'm not going to go for the DSG tune at least right away. I don't need or want all the extra hp and tq that the tune is going to give me. I will take the mpg boost for sure, and hopefully restore the 4-5 mpg hit the Dieselgate emissions fix cost me. I'm only getting the Kerma engine tune to (hopefully) make long term ownership a rational proposition vis a vis the FUBAR emissions system, since my wife wants me to keep it.
Ok, let me know how it goes. I've read that the tune changes the shift points and can make them a little jerky. The DSG tune just matches what the engine is doing to shift at the optimum points. I'd much rather just do the engine tune also.
 

Tom in PT

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I'm still waiting for my Kerma tune device to arrive. In the meantime, I cleared the code and have driven a few hundred miles and P024F code has not come back since. I'm replacing the pressure sensor that connects to the DPF which triggers the regens - my car is entering regen mode far too often. I want to have the new sensor in place before the Kerma tune is loaded into the ECU. I have to believe the DPF is not basically clogged at only 54K miles, especially since the engine is going into regen mode every 80 miles or so for the last several thousand miles. The DPF ought to be squeaky clean if anything, but I could be wrong.
 

Tom in PT

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Finally got the Kerma engine tune put in. So far (60 miles) so good. Seeing a ~ 5-6% jump in fuel economy. Also, so far seeing no need for a DSG tune. I like the way the stock DGS programming holds gears, upshifts and downshifts. The car just flies up over hills and has tons of power at light to medium throttle. As a benefit, the turbo whine I have been hearing for the last year or so seems to have largely disappeared.
 

watatrp

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Finally got the Kerma engine tune put in. So far (60 miles) so good. Seeing a ~ 5-6% jump in fuel economy. Also, so far seeing no need for a DSG tune. I like the way the stock DGS programming holds gears, upshifts and downshifts. The car just flies up over hills and has tons of power at light to medium throttle. As a benefit, the turbo whine I have been hearing for the last year or so seems to have largely disappeared.
Thanks for the update. That's very helpful. Did it get rid of the hesitation when you accelerate from a stop?
 

Tom in PT

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So far I am not noticing hesitation accelerating from a stop. Before the tune, hesitation was minimal, at least in my car.
 
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