Where do I start? White smoke and stuttering on a cold start (70f outside) with video!

Diesel Fumes

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Joined
Dec 30, 2008
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Creston, bc
TDI
2003 alh tdi 5 speed

A bit of background. It's a 2003 alh. 11mm pump and presumably original injectors. Swapped to a 5 speed. Just had timing belt done with all components and timing set but not via vcds.

Oil level absolutely hasn't gone down at all. but I've only had the car about 3000km now. Car has nothing at all for mufflers, catalytic converters. Otherwise it's all stock. Once warmed up (1 minute or so) the car runs great. No stutters, no smoke, good power. Drives just like any other alh I've driven. Uses no coolant. Gets 50mpg on the highway.

I have a parts car here with a 10mm injection pump and I'm open to trying swapping stuff over. Hopefully I can narrow this down and it helps someone else in the future. Ive ordered a vcds cable. But otherwise I'm limited in what I can do here as I'm far from mechanics and people with proper tools. I can buy some things but honestly I can't afford to spend much more on this car so hoping someone can nudge me in the right direction
 

csstevej

Top Post Dawg
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Aug 12, 2004
Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
Well for one thing , how many miles on your car?
What does the smoke smell like…. Fuel or oil?
If it’s fuel it could be retarded . The IQ can be set too low with it over fueling from the auto to manual swap.
It would help if you can find someone with VCDS and see what your IQ is and also to see where timing is.
That would be the cheapest start of finding out what it’s doing. If it’s fuel.

If it’s oil that can be a number of things.
But first tell us if it’s fuel smell or oil smell and we “ll go from there.
 

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
Lompoc, CA
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'98, '2 Jettas
More history than mileage would be useful.

How long have you had it? Did it smoke before the belt was done? Anything else you can think of.
 

Diesel Fumes

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Location
Creston, bc
TDI
2003 alh tdi 5 speed
The smoke smells like diesel. Car has 440,000 km on it. I've only owned it for 3000 of those km. It smoked before the timing belt change. But I only started in a couple times before changing the belt. Not sure yet if it's getting worse. It's not getting better for sure.

I'll try the timing first with the cable when I get it in a few days hopefully.
 

csstevej

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
Well that’s a good place to start. When you do get the cable yes check your dynamic timing, if you have the lock out tools I would also check static timing first. If you don’t have the tools there are people on here that will rent them.
If not that you can get away with a drill bit for the IP , eye the crank with the flywheel through the bell housing inspection hole. As far as the cam shaft , if your handy you can make a cam plate lock from some bar steel.
Just my opinion.
 

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
You can tell by eye if the cam's off significantly.

Mark and pray? If the timing was late and the belt was just replaced with no adjustment timing would be the same as it was.
 

Diesel Fumes

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Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Location
Creston, bc
TDI
2003 alh tdi 5 speed
I started as basic as I could and added some power service (grey bottle) to the tank. Drove it for a couple days and now it smokes a lot less on start up. Still has the stuttering for the first 10 seconds or so.

Just waiting for cable to arrive in the mail. Not sure about the timing. A competent mechanic did it, but he didn't have vcds cable so likely the timing belt service didn't change anything
 

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
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Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
A competent mechanic might, in good faith, change the belt without knowing the proper procedure.

Though one might argue that a competent mechanic wouldn't do it without looking up the correct procedure the first time he sees a particular vehicle.

Obviously I'm speculating and maybe he knows TDI's but the fact that he doesn't have equipment to check timing seems to indicate that he doesn't.
 

GlowBugTDI

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Jul 20, 2018
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Cambridge, MN
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2001 Beetle GLS TDI (BIODSL). 01 original Glow Bug TDI (sold)
Or the injector nozzles could be getting worn. One of my cars had 250k on the dash and would billow white smoke for a few seconds
 

Diesel Fumes

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Dec 30, 2008
Location
Creston, bc
TDI
2003 alh tdi 5 speed
Ok so I wanted to update the thread. Things I've done so far is change glow plug harness and test the glow plugs. They're all good now. Used to have a glow plug related cel but now it's gone. Changed air filter and changed maf. Took off intercooler pipes and found no oil or crude build up.

No difference. Smoke is actually getting worse now as the weather is cooling down. Once running for a minute or two it seems fine. Good power, good fuel economy, not burning oil or coolant, only a bit of white smoke on a hard pull on the highway I can notice if the sun is behind me.

What should I move on to now? Is there maybe air getting in the fuel system? I tried to pull the t fitting off the fuel filter but I couldn't pull it off so I assume it's sealed well. What do bad injectors do? Would they leak fuel into the cylinders while sitting over night? Would this cause a stutter at cold idle?

The other symptom worth noting is at cold idle for a minute or two the engine will bounce about 100rpm like from 900 to 1000 to 900 etc. Smokes while it does that. I'm guessing either until it gets air out of fuel system or until all excess fuel is burnt off?

I'm just confused as I've owned a lot of diesels that smoke. It doesn't concern me much but this one is worse than the others. But they all get proper tdi fuel economy. Is it possible to have shot injectors while still getting factory mpg numbers?
 

csstevej

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
Yeah been waiting on that reply too.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
since the smoke smells like fuel that narrows it down really well

if you don't have the vag-com cable
advance the injection pump timing until it sets trouble codes at hot idle for being unable to retard far enough, then back it off a little bit

I've found that running waste oil for fuel (so very poor fuel quality), my nozzles get clogged up with coke pretty often, sometimes you can knock it loose with sustained very high EGTs but other times you gotta pull the nozzles and toss them in the ultrasonic cleaner, somehow the injection pressure isn't enough to keep the holes in the nozzles clear.
Point is if it's been run at too low of load for too long or let sit for too long your nozzles might need a mechanical cleaning.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I suspect the injector nozzles are either poor quality or worn out. And the engine may well be set up to over-fuel, making things worse. I'd start by running a can (or two) of diesel purge through the engine to clean up the pump and injectors. Run the car directly on it, do not add it to the fuel, as that's far less effective. You may see some improvement, but you also still might need new nozzles.
 

Diesel Fumes

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Dec 30, 2008
Location
Creston, bc
TDI
2003 alh tdi 5 speed
Timing seems to be ok. I can try swapping injectors from the other car. But first I'll try the diesel purge. Thanks a lot.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
But first I'll try the diesel purge.
come back with results positive or negative

I'm by default skeptical of snake oil cure alls, some of them do work as intended but the amount of hype that cakes the whole subject makes me disregard them out of hand
 

fatmobile

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Jul 16, 2019
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north iowa
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an ALH M-TDI in a MK2, a 2000 Jetta, 2003 wagon
Clear fuel lines will let you see if there is air in the line and how it's behaving.
For instance no air going in but when you shut it off,
air comes out the front of the pump?
Possible mainshaft seal leak.
 

Diesel Fumes

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Location
Creston, bc
TDI
2003 alh tdi 5 speed
Clear fuel lines will let you see if there is air in the line and how it's behaving.
For instance no air going in but when you shut it off,
air comes out the front of the pump?
Possible mainshaft seal leak.
Yea for whatever reason this car has black lines and my parts car has the clear line going from pump to t fitting on fuel filter. I'm going to change that out. I wish they were all clear lines but it seems like only that one is? I think my daily driver tdi has vw logos on the fuel lines. Did they put clear lines only on the manual tdis?

I'll do this and report back with what I find. It
 

Diesel Fumes

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Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Location
Creston, bc
TDI
2003 alh tdi 5 speed
First I plugged the frostheater in and let the coolant get to operating temp before starting. Upon starting it didn't sputter or make a lot of smoke. Still made a bit of smoke when I rev it slightly.

Also doesn't seem to be much air in the lines. Perhaps I need to learn how to properly set the timing. I let my friend do it via vcds and he said it was good but I can't verify it. Maybe just needs to be finely adjusted.
 

csstevej

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
Yeah if you can do it your self that would be better, al least you will fully understand what the timing looks like.
you can be above and below the center line and the car will still start, above the line better , below the line harder, and that depends on how far below the line and how cold it is.
 

JohnTF

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Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Location
St. Paul , MN.
TDI
2003 Jetta 1.9 TDI ALH A.T. Wagon
Very similar issues on mine also , 03 ALH , owned since about april or may , long crank before starting to fire , then ruff idle for a minute , unless I raise idle manually , whitish / blue smoke till warm , the rest of day starts quick with smooth idle , if I turn off after only running a min. or two , same hard start & smoke , it appears the injectors were changed - old ones included with sale and the ones in engine look newer [ no info on what or where they came from ] , I did replace vacuum pump seals - was leaking , no oil loss kinda - about 1/2 qt after 3-5k miles .
I found with VCDS cable , timing was retarded some about 42 degrees , advanced to about 52 , starts much better , but still ruff idle till warm & maybe a little less smoke .
Then check IQ - Injection Quality was low number about 2 or 3 , raised to a little over 5 , maybe a little less smoke , but hard to gauge .
Next need to check injector balance and maybe bump the IQ a couple digits , it does have a stumble with engine speed between 1,800-2,000 RPM , either sitting & raising RPM or gear drive at that engine speed .
This 03 has about 228,000 miles on it with about 50,000 left before next timing belt is needed - according to label .
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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Location
South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
John your symptoms sound like fuel draining back to the tank on an overnight sit. Air may be somehow getting in to the fuel system.
 

JohnTF

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Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Location
St. Paul , MN.
TDI
2003 Jetta 1.9 TDI ALH A.T. Wagon
The previous owner replaced many fuel & vacuum lines , what I didn't like is regular black fuel lines - I would like to get the original with clear line to watch for air .
But I am of the view of double checking other people's work - so I KNOW what is what , but no longer have shop space and many missing tools , the rest are in unorganised storage after fire , getting to old for all of this ;(
 

Diesel Fumes

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Location
Creston, bc
TDI
2003 alh tdi 5 speed
The previous owner replaced many fuel & vacuum lines , what I didn't like is regular black fuel lines - I would like to get the original with clear line to watch for air .
But I am of the view of double checking other people's work - so I KNOW what is what , but no longer have shop space and many missing tools , the rest are in unorganised storage after fire , getting to old for all of this ;(
Yea yours sounds kind of the same except for the hard starting bit. I've never had issues with mine. Turn key and turn over and it fires right up like a new car.

Working out the kinks can be annoying but rewarding to figure out. In your case yea I would suspect air is getting into the system. I've read the most common is the t fitting on the fuel filter. If you haven't, change the filter again maybe? And make sure you change both o-rings in there. Deteriorated orings can cause air to get in there after sitting for a while if I understand correctly
 

JohnTF

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Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Location
St. Paul , MN.
TDI
2003 Jetta 1.9 TDI ALH A.T. Wagon
Have to build what I use to use back in the 80s , a modified fuel tank cap - it had a fitting for injecting air pressure and then look for " wet spots " , in the past this was to help prime fuel systems .
 
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