sticky vanes

[jbuddy]

Hi can CRC throttle body and turbo cleaner be used to free up sticky vanes
by spraying in the intake side or is this a no no? Can't seem to find MR Muscle anywhere here to go down the other side.
Suffering from over boost and suspect sticky turbo vanes.
thanks

 

[Enabled]

The vanes are only on the exhaust side, so you will not be able to get them cleaned that way.
Oven cleaner into the downpipe hole (with a guide tube) will work fine.


PS. You spelled vanes right! So many people talking about the blood vessels carrying blood back to the heart.

 

[jbuddy]

Of course now I remember it won't go all the way through. I will try easy off I guess.
thanks

 

[wonneber]

PS. You spelled vanes right! So many people talking about the blood vessels carrying blood back to the heart.

Well it does carry engine excretion.

 

[h4vok]

This is kind of related. When I got my 03 about 6months ago it had sticky vanes it would hit over boost if you went wot for more than 5 seconds. So what I did was religiously shift at 3k rpm and drove it normal no wot runs. After a month or two of doing this the problem disappeared. I think the person before me babied it and I caught it before they got too stuck.

 

[dslbugman]

My son & I have TDI ALH Beetles with 200K+ mi each and we would like to do a turbo cleaning as a preventive measure on these, but I too cannot seem to find Mr. Muscle brand in stock anywhere local - is this brand unique or will grocery store variety Easy Off Oven Cleaner work as well? Online searching reveals variants for "Oven & Grill" cleaner spray bomb too - are these any different or better for the cleaning sticky vanes via the EGR port?
Thank you in advance.

 

[fatmobile]

Sometimes if they are sticky you can unhook the vane controller and tap the lever back and forth to free it up.
Then drain the oil from the intercooler before you take it out and give it hell to burn the carbon off.
Water injection might help too.

 

[BobnOH]

Good ideas. I would first determine if you do in fact have sticky vanes. Could also be cruddy actuator. Try working it by hand, sometimes that alone will free it up.

 

[vandermic07]

I use Seafoam in place of oven cleaner. Its less harsh on you and it works good. I disconnect the vane controller and work it with my finger. You can feel the sticky spots loosen up better than with the vacuum pump.

 

[dslbugman]

I use Seafoam in place of oven cleaner. Its less harsh on you and it works good. I disconnect the vane controller and work it with my finger. You can feel the sticky spots loosen up better than with the vacuum pump.

I'm probably not thinking about it this correctly, so please feel free to laugh... the Seafoam I'm familiar with is liquid in a can, so from what I saw suggesting spraying foaming oven cleaner in the port and letting it soak, I'm imagining removing the EGR pipe from the exhaust manifold (or EGR delete plate) and pouring some down into the turbo to let it soak? Is that a good way to do this?? Many thanks for your guidance!

 

[Tdijarhead]

Spraying oven cleaner foam into the turbo is a hit and miss temporary solution. Pull the turbo off the car disassemble it and give it a proper complete cleaning.

 

[Nevada_TDI]

I have also heard of removing the exhaust gas cooler (EGC) cover, which is much easier if the the EGC has fallen off. What I read was the guy got real creative attached some sort of tube on to the oven cleaner to assist it getting down to the turbo more effectively. As mentioned if you can get to the actuator arm and run it back and forth-while still on the motor-you might be able to knock enough gunk off to get it to work normally after a few spirited runs done the road. If you do the oven cleaner method do not get in a hurry, apparently the propellant is flammable and has been know to backfire up the exhaust manifold.

 

[Blacktree]

I've been down this road already. A couple comments:
1) The Mr. Muscle brand of oven cleaner does not have magical properties. But it does have sodium hydroxide (aka Lye). Any oven cleaner with sodium hydroxide will do.
2) Depending on how gunked-up the turbo is, the "oven cleaner down the EGR port" trick may not work. So don't get your hopes up. However, the oven cleaner works great for cleaning the turbo, after you disassemble it.

Here's what mine looked like, after disassembling and hosing it down with oven cleaner:

 

[vandermic07]

dslbugman
I've used a Seafoam in a aerosol can that you hookup to a boat carburetor. I just remove the down pipe and spray up in it. It foams everywhere. I've also used the straight liquid Seafoam and used my cheapo undercoat gun and sprayed it in there.

Its definitely a quick fix, not a long term solution. I do it when I see my boost pressures spiking on my scangauge (about once every 18 months. I've done it 3 times total).
I would like to disassemble mine at some point but with 350K miles on the car, its more likely that I will need a new one since it is original. If I'm going to go through the effort I'd rather just put a new one on and evaluate the old one.

 

[Nevada_TDI]

I've been down this road already. A couple comments:
1) The Mr. Muscle brand of oven cleaner does not have magical properties. But it does have sodium hydroxide (aka Lye). Any oven cleaner with sodium hydroxide will do.
2) Depending on how gunked-up the turbo is, the "oven cleaner down the EGR port" trick may not work. So don't get your hopes up. However, the oven cleaner works great for cleaning the turbo, after you disassemble it.

Here's what mine looked like, after disassembling and hosing it down with oven cleaner:

It has go to be an optical illusion, the ends of the turbine blades look bent over.

 

[Nevada_TDI]

I've been down this road already. A couple comments:
1) The Mr. Muscle brand of oven cleaner does not have magical properties. But it does have sodium hydroxide (aka Lye). Any oven cleaner with sodium hydroxide will do.
2) Depending on how gunked-up the turbo is, the "oven cleaner down the EGR port" trick may not work. So don't get your hopes up. However, the oven cleaner works great for cleaning the turbo, after you disassemble it.

Here's what mine looked like, after disassembling and hosing it down with oven cleaner:

What kind of penetrating liquid did you use to get the bolts out? But more importantly what did you do to get the turbine out of the manifold? Mine appears to be rusted solid.

 

[tgray]

I have only see vanes stick for reasons that required disassembly. I have had ones with parts worn out or full of oil and soot. I have had one with rust behind an internal plate that will push the parts together. Oven cleaner would have made it worse. Even with spraying stuff in where I could and moving things around I only find the fix is temporary and frustrating. In my opinion if a turbo actuator starts to stick then it needs to come apart unless you want to maybe just get by a few more miles. Generally I have not had these turbos stick if I drive them right. Most of my problems have been from engines sitting around or getting a car that was not treated right. If they are sticking from too much oil in the exhaust then they might clean up with something but you have other problems. Maybe I haven't seen it all but I a have experienced bout 900,000 miles of road miles on these engines and in every issue I had nothing worked for long except a tear down. They are not that bad to pull apart with a propane torch to heat up the cast iron part.

 

[fatmobile]

I've been spraying the vanes down with dry moly
when I do take them all the way apart.

Getting the core separated from the exhaust is the hard part.
I've heard someone suggest heating it up with a torch.
You do have to be careful where you pound.

 

[tgray]

When you do take them apart, pull the 3 torx screws in the picture above and remove everything to clean properly. There is also a thin plate behind the parts that is good to remove as well. That is what I found rusted on one car and I couldn't figure out why everything was binding when I put it together again. When it goes back together the movement should be very easy and smooth and I would add easy and smooth with no oil. I found lubricant of any kind can make it seem fine when it will stick once the oil blows out. These actuators are made to run dry with exhaust gas all around them. A mapp gas torch will help in heating things up. You want to get it to a dull red around the casting and then a slight tap with a hammer and the turbo will separate with no problems.

 

[dslbugman]

Many thanks for all this feedback and for answering my question about Oven Cleaner / Seafoam. I am not experiencing any actual power loss or limp mode except on rare occasions on one of our TDI's. So far, when I get limp mode I can quickly turn the car off and right back on while driving & it resets the computer and it powers right back up. There is one particularly steep mountain that I travel regularly and if limp mode is going to happen, it's when I'm going up that mountain. So...based on this advice, I'm rethinking the oven cleaner quick fix and will plan on an actual turbo removal and cleaning. Car has 220K so it probably could use a good cleaning & perhaps an intake cleaning too. Again, many thanks to all for sharing your thoughts and your experience with the ALH.

 

[Blacktree]

It has go to be an optical illusion, the ends of the turbine blades look bent over.

It's probably the camera angle. The blades were undamaged.

What kind of penetrating liquid did you use to get the bolts out? But more importantly what did you do to get the turbine out of the manifold? Mine appears to be rusted solid.

Separating the cartridge from the manifold was a huge PITA. It took several cycles of heating and dousing the bolts to get them out. I think I used PB Blaster, but don't get hung-up on brand names.

After the bolts were out, it took quite a bit of heating and beating to get the cartridge and manifold apart. I was afraid of breaking the turbine housing, so I didn't hit it very hard.

After I got it apart, I cleaned the mating surfaces with a wire wheel and applied a light coat of grease, to help with re-assembly.

 

[Blacktree]

When you do take them apart, pull the 3 torx screws in the picture above and remove everything to clean properly. There is also a thin plate behind the parts that is good to remove as well. That is what I found rusted on one car and I couldn't figure out why everything was binding when I put it together again. When it goes back together the movement should be very easy and smooth and I would add easy and smooth with no oil. I found lubricant of any kind can make it seem fine when it will stick once the oil blows out. These actuators are made to run dry with exhaust gas all around them. A mapp gas torch will help in heating things up. You want to get it to a dull red around the casting and then a slight tap with a hammer and the turbo will separate with no problems.

I didn't think to mention this, but yes... I agree with the above. The VNT mechanism needs to be completely disassembled to clean it properly. After doing all the work to get the turbo out and get the turbine housing off, it would be silly not to take out the vanes and clean those as well.

 

[BobnOH]

Keep in mind folks, a turbocharger spins at very high speeds. It's not a simple r+r like a carburetor or alternator.

 

[boertje]

The scoring of this plate doesn’t help either. Been told by more than one guru that this turbo is junk. This plate was also warped.

VNT dirty

• boertje
• Feb 3, 2015

A dirty VNT with scored plate.

 

[Nevada_TDI]

Years ago, I read about someone using a Nuclear grade of ungodly high temperature rating grease, should we even bother? I hear that specific grease costs as much as a cart full of groceries at Whole Foods.

 

[tgray]

If the plate is warped I would look for other options. The tolerances are very tight on these turbos. You can find another used one with good vanes or whole or buy new. Just don't ever think of the cheap china ones. When they blow up you may blow up your engine with it in the process.

 

[tgray]

Did you remove the ring behind the one shown in your hand? It almost looks like it is a part of the casting but that is where the rust can form and maybe what caused it to warp. Somewhere in my postings there is a post I made with a picture of it.

 

[tgray]

As you see what is inside it is obvious oven cleaner would only have been a waste of time.

 

[boertje]

Did you remove the ring behind the one shown in your hand? It almost looks like it is a part of the casting but that is where the rust can form and maybe what caused it to warp. Somewhere in my postings there is a post I made with a picture of it.

The ring shown is this one.

inside turbo with ring removed

forums.tdiclub.com

 

[tgray]

That's the ring and that's the picture I took. I found the rust swelling behind that was causing all my problems and once that was cleaned out the turbo has worked fine ever since. Yours may be something else but it is one problem area that oven cleaner will not deal with the turbo all together in the car. If yours is warped you may put in another one and try that. The goal is a smooth stick free movement when everything is bolted down tight.