Outer CV joint 5sp to 6sp...?

[Nuje]

Doing the wheel bearing on my 6sp-swapped car and the outer CV joint on the driver side has some noticeable play in it.

Any chance I could re-purpose a good outer CV joint from a 5sp (or 01M for that matter - lots of those kicking around) on the 02M axle? (1J0 407 271 GC)

 

[Steve Addy]

Where did the axles come from to begin with? I don't see that part number coming from a 6 speed Mk4, which I think was the GLI car. I'm not sure whether any Mk4 GTI got a 6 speed MT.

AFAIK the 6 speed MT cars have a different outer CV joint from the 5 MT. In fact I think the 6 MT cars have a different hub too, I think.

Steve

 

[Nuje]

The axles are from the EU - purchased as part of a 6sp swap kit from DarksideDevelopments.co.uk.

The NAR 6MT cars (VR6 and some 1.8T) did have different steering knuckles (bigger brakes), but given that you can put a 6sp swap kit in any ol' TDI (just ask @boertje ), I think the axle-hub mating surface must be the same between 5sp and 6sp (and 01M for that matter).

 

[Steve Addy]

The axles are from the EU - purchased as part of a 6sp swap kit from DarksideDevelopments.co.uk.

The NAR 6MT cars (VR6 and some 1.8T) did have different steering knuckles (bigger brakes), but given that you can put a 6sp swap kit in any ol' TDI (just ask @boertje ), I think the axle-hub mating surface must be the same between 5sp and 6sp (and 01M for that matter).

You could be right, I was only looking at NA catalog, but if the hub mating surface was the same why use a different part? I never anticipated that you had EU axle shafts, but I doubt there's any actual difference but I will say that the axle part number you supplied shows up for use on Eos...which means likely the same as some others as well.

I didn't specifically look at steering knuckles (bearing carriers) because I knew that there were differences with some that had built-in caliper carriers and some that didn't. Also since all MK4 used the same bearing I dispensed with that as well...but the hub for some reason showed two options.

Not sure what outer CV you actually have on that axle and it may be a situation of comparing what you have to the one you were thinking about using to see what the differences are?

Steve

 

[boertje]

The outer joint is readily available on ebay and other US sites. It is GKN 303551 for about 90 bux. I have bought a number of them as of late.

 

[Steve Addy]

The outer joint is readily available on ebay and other US sites. It is GKN 303551 for about 90 bux. I have bought a number of them as of late.

That GKN number crosses (directly and indirectly) to 1J0498099E, EV and EX (for starters) and 1J0407311R too, all of which are quite common and easily found.

Vaico V107284 is an analogue to those also...

Steve

 

[Nuje]

How much play is normal in an outer CV joint? Both of mine have some noticeable movement to them when holding the shaft. Should they feel pretty much solid? Or is some play normal / expected / OK?

 

[Steve Addy]

How much play is normal in an outer CV joint? Both of mine have some noticeable movement to them when holding the shaft. Should they feel pretty much solid? Or is some play normal / expected / OK?

It depends on the kind of play, are you talking about the outer CV being floppy or there being a noticeable lack of connection when you hold the CV parallel and try twisting it? If there's movement in the CV joint (held rigid and parallel) and no movement at the axle at the same time then the joint needs attention. Even if the CV joint is floppy it should not have any play or slop where the joint will rotate a little and the axle will not.

It's hard to convey the above without a demonstration, unfortunately I can't do a vid but likely someone else has one on utube, I would think.

Steve

 

[Nuje]

Yeah - like, hold the axle shaft in one hand, grab the CV joint end and give that a rotational twist; I have tactile movement there.

 

[boertje]

That GKN number crosses (directly and indirectly) to 1J0498099E, EV and EX (for starters) and 1J0407311R too, all of which are quite common and easily found.

Vaico V107284 is an analogue to those also...

Steve

Yup, here is what i have.
CV joints outer left and right 1JO 498 099 E Löbro 303551 GKN (EKG 921522, Spidan 21522)
CV joint gear box side 1JO 498 103 E Löbro 302464 GKN (EKG 922902, Spidan 22902)

Yeah - like, hold the axle shaft in one hand, grab the CV joint end and give that a rotational twist; I have tactile movement there.

Could be the shaft or joint splines. I have one shaft with worn splines and it has some play.

 

[Nuje]

Could be the shaft or joint splines. I have one shaft with worn splines and it has some play.

So the only fix for that, then, would be new complete drive axles, I guess (?).

I swapped the outer joints L <---> R in the event that it helps extend the life of the one that isn't as bad; new CV joint for the worse one is on the way (from Toronto...so the better part of a week to get here. )

 

[Steve Addy]

So the only fix for that, then, would be new complete drive axles, I guess (?).

I swapped the outer joints L <---> R in the event that it helps extend the life of the one that isn't as bad; new CV joint for the worse one is on the way (from Toronto...so the better part of a week to get here. )

Swapping sides does help with longevity, I've done it before.

I wouldn't buy completely new axles, there's no need to when you can replace joints. You retain your factory axle shaft (sans joints) which is critical IMO. I don't believe that @boertje was suggesting that the shaft had worn splines but that the outer joint had problem splines.

Steve

 

[boertje]

I don't believe that @boertje was suggesting that the shaft had worn splines but that the outer joint had problem splines.

Steve

i was suggesting that it could be either shaft or spline as i’ve had both.

 

[Nuje]

How have you determined that you had the worn splines? Just dry-fitting the joint to the shaft and seeing if there's play between them? Or was it so obvious as to be visible?

 

[boertje]

On mine it was the inner joint and was visible on the shaft spline. It wasnt much but it was there. Fortunately i have not had spline issues on the outer side. New outer joints so far have been a good snug fit onto the shaft.

 

[Nuje]

Any chance I could re-purpose a good outer CV joint from a 5sp (or 01M for that matter - lots of those kicking around)

So, having removed both inner and outer joints (swapped the inners L<--->R; new boot on one outer and new joint on the other) and comparing to an 02J, it's apparent very quickly that the axles themselves are different beasts: the diameter of the shaft onto which the CV joints slide is at least a few mm larger on the 02M as compared to the 02J. The functional design of the CV joints themselves looks pretty much identical, just (again) larger diameter.