Bhw issues after cam replacement

[Nathan_og]

No smoke either from what I can see but I will check how much it smokes in the morning after it’s been sitting. I’m wondering if oil may possible be seeping past the injector seals over night.

 

[Nathan_og]

Also when accelerating hard and letting off the gas I can hear the turbo do a choo choo sound

 

[PickleRick]

I'm still going back to boost leak, sadly all i can do is guess. The o rings and hoses on these are really old at this point if still OEM and even in worse shape if china aftermarket charge hoses have been installed in place of OEM.

If a shop isn't familiar with these they may not have pushed the charge pipes in far enough to click or installed the retaining clips improperly. I'm assuming they put the motor into service position in order to do the cam swap, so they had the turbo and intercooler side hoses off. They may have also removed your asv, perhaps it's not sealed properly to your intake on reinstall? Speaking of which did you verify your asv is opening/closing fully?

Have you ran a boost log to see how much you're making? I have much more load than you but on normal acceleration with stg 2 tune I can hit and maintain 13 to 17 psi with ease. If I really stomp on it and hold the accelerator I will hit 20+.

Unfortunately the Passat isn't the friendliest set up for capping the turbo side of the charge pipe for a pressure test.

The pipe coming out of the turbo is the one that generally gives the most issues as it hits a ground cable and rubs through, it's also always saturated with oil.

Anytime I do a repair on something minor and then it runs like crap after I also look around for something obvious I forgot to plug back in or may have knocked off, same when going behind another tech who can't figure out what they did wrong. Sometimes that issue is easier found than others.

 

[Nathan_og]

I haven’t done a boost log, not too sure how to with vcds.

also I asked the tech about putting the car in service position, he said he did not do that and he did it a different way. I don’t remember exactly what he said, it’s hard to get any info out of them but I am 95% sure they did not put the car in service position and lock the crank.

 

[Nathan_og]

The tech did say he has done many of these before but judging from this experience they are far less experienced on Tdi’s then I expected. I am taking the car to a local guru and vw specialist so they can figure out what went wrong. I really hope they can find it cause the car is basically almost useless now.

 

[Nathan_og]

Alright took it to a vw specialist. They went thorough a whole list of stuff and covered pretty much everything vacuum, boost, timing m, and fuel related. They said it looks like some of the vanes may be seized in the turbo. The actuator moves freely with a night vac and with a n75 test but they said a few may be seized and not all. I know I can get a good used turbo for 300 with warranty but I may take it for a second opinion before I spend more money on it.

 

[burpod]

i dont believe that's physically possible..... maybe the lever physicaly broke inside in which case it's not moving vanes at all but that seems incredibly far fetched. you should really take an 011-001-004 in TURBO mode log.. that would tell you a lot

 

[Mozambiquer]

Alright took it to a vw specialist. They went thorough a whole list of stuff and covered pretty much everything vacuum, boost, timing m, and fuel related. They said it looks like some of the vanes may be seized in the turbo. The actuator moves freely with a night vac and with a n75 test but they said a few may be seized and not all. I know I can get a good used turbo for 300 with warranty but I may take it for a second opinion before I spend more money on it.

As burpod said, thats almost physically impossible.
The way those work, unless the vanes are physically broken, but even then the mity-vac and n75 tests wouldn't work correctly then.

 

[Nathan_og]

Well I’m completely lost. The shop did everything possible, they smoke tested the boost system, I believe pressure tested as well, they hooked a gauge to the vacuum lines and measured all the vacuum, might vac tested the actuator, they went through a ton of other stuff. They went through the whole vacuum system and spent hours on it. They are a vw Audi/Tdi specialist and are extremely experienced, they drive these same cars themselves.

I’m gonna speak with them tomorrow and see if they can guarantee it’s the turbo. I may also take it to precision tuning in concord for a second opinion.

 

[Nathan_og]

Currently the car has no boost for the first 10 or 15 seconds of driving when it’s cold. Once you start driving it boost ok and drives somewhat but doesn’t get up to speed like before. It seems the longer you drive the better it gets. It shifts kinda iffy still cause it’s not able to get up to the proper speed to shift and the car just holds the rpms higher.

 

[Nathan_og]

The shop also did boost logs and said it was not matching requested when the car was cold but once it warmed up it was starting to get closer to requested

 

[burpod]

simply not meeting request isn't enough. if you took the logs i suggest, you could get a hell of a lot more info that will point to whats wrong. there's so much more you can get from log data than just "boost not meeting request" sigh

 

[Mozambiquer]

Id look at a stuck egr valve as a possible suspect, either that or leaking exhaust.

 

[Windex]

****. You're in southern Ont?

Wanna take a trip out to Cambridge and let me run a req VS actual boost log for you?

 

[PickleRick]

Ever seen these guys around Ontario? I'm terrible with geography past our northern border...

 

[Nathan_og]

****. You're in southern Ont?

Wanna take a trip out to Cambridge and let me run a req VS actual boost log for you?

Thanks for the offer. I’m in Brampton, Cambridge isn’t to bad of a drive. I do have vcds so maybe I can attempt a boost log before making the drive, I’ve done one before a long time ago I just don’t remember the steps but I’ll try and figure it out once I pick up the car today.

If not I would be glad to accept the help.

 

[burpod]

-go to engine module -> measuring blocks
-first block select 011, 2nd block 001, 3rd block try 003 for MAF i believe
- click the TURBO button
-click LOG
-rename log file to include a date/time on it so filename is unique
-click start
-drive
-click stop. if you don't click stop, it will still save the file, but perhaps miss the last few seconds of data. files are saved in c:\ross-tech\vcds\logs

at hot idle, log 001-004 to see what IQ is at idle and also the torsion value in 004

along with re-checking some basics that should likely tell you all you need to know as far as what's wrong

 

[Nathan_og]

Ok and when logging im guessing I do a hard pull from a stop and other gears as well?

 

[burpod]

i'd just log 25 minutes of the drive, get some various pulls from different rpm starting points in the mix. getting one or two quick pulls isn't always terribly useful. it might very well be enough, but sometimes more is needed to find patterns. computers these days can handle a a 500kb csv file and it's easy to scroll through the graphs quickly in vc-scope or even just the .csv file to find the interesting bits

 

[Nathan_og]

Alright got the car back. I got the boost logs from the shop. The actually boost doesn’t match requested until it hits around 2500 rpm then actually matches requested. The shop actually found that the actuator is sticking in I think the fully open or closed position, don’t remember exactly which one they said but it looks like it’s sticking until around 2500 rpm. By the looks of it I think I will be ordering a used turbo.

 

[Nathan_og]

They also checked vacuum I believe it was the line coming from the n75 to the turbo and found 28in of vacuum

 

[burpod]

share the logs please post them up

 

[Nathan_og]

share the logs please post them up

Pm sent

 

[Nathan_og]

Alright I did some test. I hooked a vacuum gauge to the line that goes from the n75 to the turbo and did the n75 out put test, it pulls 24inhg of vacuum and releases to zero. I unplugged the intake flap and egr which made no difference. The actuator also holds vacuum and stops at around 18 inhg. I did not notice it to be sticking or biding although it did take a good amount of pumps to bring it up. It starts to move right around 4inhg

I scanned the car, only 2 codes p3101 open or short for the intake flap and p3102 motor for intake flap. I think the p3101 is because I just unplugged it.

I notice the longer I drive the better it gets with less lag, at some points it almost drives like before but it still doesn’t make the same power andit just holds the rpm’s higher and for longer since it can’t get up to speed like before. First thing in the morning it smokes more with the rpm’s jumping around and a sound of fuel knock, it does have the 5v glow plugs but it did not smoke or jump around like this before. It also has zero response when I press the gas as it jumps around and for the first 10 seconds or so on start I can put the pedal down and it won’t even make it up the driveway and then the boost slowly comes on and around 2 to 2500 it goes. After that it doesn’t lag like that

 

[Nathan_og]

I checked the injection quantity on start.

cyl 1 -2.35
Cyl 2 -0.85
Cyl 3 +0.33
Cyl 4 +2.87

Cyl 4 is out of spec but quickly returns to within spec after a few seconds.

After idling for maybe a minute or so

cyl 1 -1.72
Cyl 2 -0.75
Cyl 3 +1.01
Cyl 4 +1.46

 

[Mozambiquer]

I checked the injection quantity on start.

cyl 1 -2.35
Cyl 2 -0.85
Cyl 3 +0.33
Cyl 4 +2.87

Cyl 4 is out of spec but quickly returns to within spec after a few seconds.

After idling for maybe a minute or so

cyl 1 -1.72
Cyl 2 -0.75
Cyl 3 +1.01
Cyl 4 +1.46

Whats the torsion value at?

 

[Nathan_og]

Whats the torsion value at?

its at 0.5

 

[Windex]

Had the opportunity to graph the req vs actual logs you sent:

If this were my car, other than the verification of the VNT actuator and it's adjustment, as well as the boost piping, I would look for exhaust leaks from the manifold to the turbo, and (more common) the tube from the manifold to the EGR cooler, specifically the gaskets. I have seen small not-so-noisy leaks there prevent the turbo from spooling properly.

 

[Nathan_og]

The shop said they found vnt vanes to slightly stick although it looked fine to me when checked with a might vac and n75 output test. I got a good used turbo with low mileage and a freely moving actuator, I will have that installed and go from there. I also told the shop to check the injector height and make sure everything is good there.

One thing I noticed when I was doing the n75 output test yesterday is there was some small bubbling of a fluid on the egr cooler top pipe that goes to the intake right where the gasket is. The bubbling would stop when the actuator was not pulling vacuum, and then start bubbling when it was pulling. I have a video that I could email.

 

[Windex]

If there is a leak anywhere on that top pipe, exhaust pressure is reduced to the turbine - this can cause your symptoms. fix that and any leak before replacing the turbo...