Totaled B4V, buy back from insurance?

[Camel413]

Hey all, last week my beloved 96 B4V got totaled. I knew these cars are worth more than the average insurance will value them at. This is why shortly after buying the car I had it appraised and insured it for a specific amount with the help of my insurance agent. I had mine valued at $6500. Insurance has determined it is a total loss and is paying me $7200 minus my deductible of $500. They want $1500 to buy the car back and allow me to keep it. I have had this car for 6 years and it was in very good shape, very minimal rust. most issues sorted out. It had some upgrades which made it a blast to drive. It was due for a timing belt change in less than 2000 miles and I actually have all the parts to do it. Engine runs strong and transmission shifts good. It has a South Bend stage 3 clutch from upgrading the chip and injectors. The car had a rebuilt title when I bought it 6 years ago, previous owner hit a gaurd rail on the passenger side and rebuilt the car around 100,000 miles (this info from a carfax when purchased). True mileage is not known as the dash had been swapped at some point becase the odometer read 63,000 when purchased but the last carfax had was around 144,000. I have put about 70-80k miles on it since Ive owned it.

All damage is to the front end: bumper, hood, fenders, radiator, support, ect. The steering wheel air bag did deploy and the windshield spider webbed on the drivers side. The frame "looks" ok as does the engine.

What is your opinion/thoughts/recommendations on buying the car back from insurance? Would you rebuild it? Keep it for a spare parts car "IF" I decide to get another one? Part it out on the forum to members who need various items?

Before the wreck I owned it and an 04 Tahoe with 280k miles on it. I used both as daily drivers switching between them as I needed. I loved the small zippyness of the VW, easy to get in and around town and parking lots. Fun to drive and great fuel economy. Having to constantly fix little things to keep them working properly does get old after a while but in the end it is a unique car that I loved. I am looking at replacing the old Tahoe with a newer truck in the near future but I still want something fun to drive along side of it. I have always wanted a Mercedes W123 TD (touring diesel). I have also looked at the old boxy Volvo wagons. I just know more about the VW than the MB or Volvos. So with that info would that persuade you one way or another on the buy back option?

Please note I am only interested in owning wagons. I have zero interest in having a sedan version of anything.

https://flic.kr/p/2nVtfa3 https://flic.kr/p/2nVuAjP https://flic.kr/p/2nVtf9r https://flic.kr/p/2nVubAU https://flic.kr/p/2nVubCN

 

[akal65]

Very sad .

 

[ToddA1]

Man, that sucks.

Who’s insurance company appraised it for $7200… that number is surprising. Was it their first offer? If so, I’d push back, but that’s me… been there, done that.

I’m used to the buyback being scrap value on a car this old. I‘d probably let it go, if it were me. You can probably get more parting it out, but it’s a lot of work. Been there, done that…

-Todd

 

[garciapiano]

I’d let it go…

 

[turbodieseldyke]

"SOOT" lol. Definitely keep that part.

Have a body shop estimate the repair bill, and decide from there. The engine+tranny aren't worth $1500

 

[garciapiano]

As far as your wagon fetish, what’s stopping you from owning a newer TDI wagon?

 

[Camel413]

Todd. I had a friend that owned a body shop and he did an appraisal for me using comps he found on the internet. Wrote it up similar to a house appraisal. I turned that into my local insurance agent who then used that for a determined value. Unfortunately going this route there isn’t any wiggle room on value or offers since we stated the value.

garciapiano, I’m not normally a fan of newer cars. The newest thing I have ever owned my whole life is my 04 Tahoe. I’ve always driven older cheaper vehicles. I don’t put my money in cars since they are depreciating assets. But with that being said I do appreciate the old quirky cars and see value in them above what the “average” person would.

Since it is all front end damage I could buy a sedan for cheap that is either not running or damaged in the rear to piece mine back together. I’m not in a hurry and easily have plenty of space.

 

[Zak99b5]

I'd be worried with the windshield cracking that the car is bent at/past the A pillar. If it's all just front end, it becomes doable, though you'd need to do some cutting and welding from a donor car.

 

[Camel413]

That has been a question I’ve had since the wreck. What caused the glass to break? I did have glasses on that after the wreck was on the dash. The spider web is right in front of my face.

 

[thechoochlyman]

Wow, that's the exact same color as the B4V I bought wrecked. $1500 is a little steep, but I'd still keep it. Get a B4V GLX and swap your drivetrain in there.

 

[Camel413]

I read your thread on the one you went and picked up. I thought $1500 was high too. Years ago I had a deer hit the side of my 97 Jetta tdi and totaled it but it was all side damage and still driveable and I bought it back for $500 and drove it for 2 more years.

 

[thechoochlyman]

I read your thread on the one you went and picked up. I thought $1500 was high too. Years ago I had a deer hit the side of my 97 Jetta tdi and totaled it but it was all side damage and still driveable and I bought it back for $500 and drove it for 2 more years.

I wonder if you could haggle with them on that a little bit. I'd mainly hate to see it go just on account of all the good parts that you can't find anymore.

 

[turbodieseldyke]

I wonder if you could haggle with them on that a little bit. I'd mainly hate to see it go just on account of all the good parts that you can't find anymore.

The high buyback is likely a side-effect of the high payout. He went out of his way to insure it as high-value. Some ins. companies have a flat-percentage buyback price.

 

[Camel413]

I was able to get some of the bent front parts out of the way to see what I am dealing with. It doesnt appear that the frame horns are bent. The left has peeled back slightly. Some of the sheet metal coming off the frame that attaches to the fender is bent but not too bad. What do you guys think? I know somethings can be hard to see in a picture vs in person but am I overlooking anything obvious?

https://flic.kr/p/2nVNwgP
https://flic.kr/p/2nVJvsf
https://flic.kr/p/2nVNwdN
https://flic.kr/p/2nVPUgN

 

[Camel413]

https://flic.kr/p/2nVPtpq
https://flic.kr/p/2nVPUaW
https://flic.kr/p/2nVNw63

 

[Camel413]

So after going back and looking more carefully I found some major issues. First, much farther back on the passenger side frame it is buckled with paint chipping off. Also there is a 1/2" gap on the passenger door on the top. At the top back part of the door opening it actually split the metal about 3" long. I guess the cab did get tweaked enough to bust the windshield.

So at this point I am letting insurance come get it as much as it pains me. I would like to keep it and help other members here with parts but I just cant see it being viable at the $1500 the insurance wants for the car.

I am so sad as this car was in such good shape with nearly everything working. At this point I am not sure what the future holds for car plans.

 

[ToddA1]

Pics actually look pretty good, but I think the rad support should be parallel to the mount cross member. I guess moot point.

Did you try to negotiate at all? Either on their payout or buyback?

You definitely did stated and not agreed value?

-Todd

 

[Camel413]

Insurance just called back tonight finally. They have been horrible to work with ever since they found out they was going to be paying out triple what they originally wanted to. When they made their first contact on the loss without stopping or slowing down their speech they said “the value of your car is $2200 minus your $500 so we will be sending you a check for $1700, do you have clear title in hand?” I told them I do not accept that as I had it insured for $6500. She then tells me that it was a cash policy and they would only pay $2200. I told her that she needed to speak to my local agent. She said “I will make a note of that” and then hung up on me. Low and behold the next day they call back and state the new price of $7200 minus my $500 deductible for a total of $6700. So now after they have realized they are not getting away with a cheap way out they will not negotiate on anything. After it’s all settled I am going to have a sit down in person with my local agent explaining to why I am going to be shopping around for car insurance.

 

[turbodieseldyke]

After it’s all settled I am going to have a sit down in person with my local agent explaining to why I am going to be shopping around for car insurance.

It sounds like he did you right. They were out to screw you, and his deal with you held up.

 

[garciapiano]

Insurance companies are generally scum. That said, the best one I've dealt with was my own... USAA.

 

[ToddA1]

Insurance just called back tonight finally.

I wasn’t aware your insurance company was doing the pay out. I did see it was a front end collision, but didn’t want to assume anything. Still, it’s interesting you insured it for $6500 and they came back with $7200…. after deductible you’re still $200 ahead.

I’m surprised they didn’t use $6500, prior to deductible.

-Todd

 

[Camel413]

So my insurance pays back taxes, license and title thats where the extra $700 came from. So they did pay the $6500 that it was insured for plus $700 for tax, title, and license then minus deductible for an end total of the $6700.

I am still not sure what I want to do car wise. I love the B4Vs, I dont want a newer car. I also love the TDIs and do not want a gasser. There just isnt much out there for sale and if you do find something its usually not in great shape. Yes I can work on it and bring it back up it all cost money and I end up pouring in a lot of money to the project. I am really trying to see this as a next chapter in life (car wise) and maybe branch out to some other vehicles that I have wanted besides the VWs. But that is hard since my car was so fun to have, work on and drive.

I have always dreamed of owning the Mercedes W123s in diesel and wagon. Those too are hard to find and quite a bit more pricey than the B4Vs. Another thought is the old Golf GTI with a TDI swap in it. I would be good for doing the mechanical items in the swap but what scares me the most is the wiring harness. I have never been good at the electical side of cars. Tracing wires and keeping wiring looms in good shape and intact is not my forte.

 

[Steve Addy]

So my insurance pays back taxes, license and title thats where the extra $700 came from. So they did pay the $6500 that it was insured for plus $700 for tax, title, and license then minus deductible for an end total of the $6700.

I am still not sure what I want to do car wise. I love the B4Vs, I dont want a newer car. I also love the TDIs and do not want a gasser. There just isnt much out there for sale and if you do find something its usually not in great shape. Yes I can work on it and bring it back up it all cost money and I end up pouring in a lot of money to the project. I am really trying to see this as a next chapter in life (car wise) and maybe branch out to some other vehicles that I have wanted besides the VWs. But that is hard since my car was so fun to have, work on and drive.

I have always dreamed of owning the Mercedes W123s in diesel and wagon. Those too are hard to find and quite a bit more pricey than the B4Vs. Another thought is the old Golf GTI with a TDI swap in it. I would be good for doing the mechanical items in the swap but what scares me the most is the wiring harness. I have never been good at the electical side of cars. Tracing wires and keeping wiring looms in good shape and intact is not my forte.

After a TDI you'll find that the MB W123 is a dog to have to drive...they might be endearing to an extent but they lack power that modern diesels have now.

I've owned 3 MB's now, all diesels, W114/115, W140 and W211 and after every one of them I'm like....I don't ever want to buy another...the most recent, the W211 CDI is better than most but still overly complicated and not something I want to get stuck with if it breaks bad.

When I built my B3V I didn't use a B4 TDI engine harness even though I had one, I built my harness out of a Mk3 TDI harness so I wouldn't have the weirdness of the OBDD stuff that was part and parcel of the 96 TDI B4's, and so I could use the JB ECU's that are plentiful to find. It wasn't that tough to do but it took a while to create it.

Steve

 

[Steve Addy]

BTW, I'm not convinced it's not salvageable, but I can't say that for certain without seeing it in person.

Right now there's a 95 B4 VR6 at the local Upull that I've been taking parts off of...I've been eying the right fender and some front stuff, unfortunately the hood and left fender, which I could have used, were already damaged when it arrived. The local yard managed to damage the driver side doors too.

It's a shame to see it go but I understand...

Steve

 

[Camel413]

With the cab showing bent I think it would have taken a lot to get it back right. After I saw the gap in the door and the split metal I accepted the fact that the cab shifted enough to shatter the windshield.

With this angle you can see the left side horn is much lower than the right side. The second picture shows farther back on the left side where it has buckled and the paint is popping off.

https://flic.kr/p/2nWHcHz https://flic.kr/p/2nWBSLW
These show the gap with the door closed

https://flic.kr/p/2nWBSK3 https://flic.kr/p/2nWBSPM
This one is kind of hard to see but right in the middle of the bottom side of the pillar it is bulged out some

https://flic.kr/p/2nWGMW8

 

[Camel413]

This is the at the top back side of the door opening. The metal has been split from the cab shifting

https://flic.kr/p/2nWEr3e

 

[Camel413]

Steve that is very discouraging to hear about the Mercedes that you have had. I do like the choice of words that you used though, "endearing".

So if I decided to take on some sort of a swap what is the best chassis to be on the look out for? The GLX with the VR6 in it? Those was in 95 - 97 correct? Does it matter if it is an auto or manual trans since I would be swapping it to manual trans no matter what? Should I be looking for something other than the 1Z/AHU TDIs?

 

[ToddA1]

I definitely see TDI sedans for sale, and I’m not even looking for them. If you’re stuck on a wagon, I’d think any vr6 would be a candidate, if you only want it for the body.

I’m guessing looking for a manual trans, CE2 car would make sense. It’d make it a plug and play process.

-Todd

 

[Steve Addy]

That's definitely pushed the top of the cowl back some to have created that gap and buckled the opening at the B pillar.

Your candidates for conversion are almost all sedans, the only wagon option would be like I've done and convert a B3 Passat wagon and it's not all that hard since most of what's there is shared with the B4 aside from some wiring irregularities that would be taken care of by transferring all of the B4 wiring to the B3.....but...and there's always a but, the B3V cars are now harder to find as well.

Any VW car from about 1989 up to early 1999 (Cabrio to 2002 sorta) uses the CE2 electrical system and can be a conversion option.

It wouldn't matter if the B4 was VR powered, you just swap everything from the wagon over and go. Unfortunately the B4's in general are now hard to get as well. The wagon in Wisconsin that was on FB for a while is now being parted, the wagon in IN got purchased not all that long ago and I haven't seen anything for sale that didn't require a ground up job.

It's unfortunate, you had one of the nicest and now it's been damaged badly....

Sorry to see it go.

Steve

EDIT: If you want a preview of old MB diesel ownership go hang out at Peach Parts (Pelican Parts) forum in the diesel section. If You want a preview of CDI ownership (no W211 wagon unfortunately) hang out at Benzworld in the W211 forum.

I am continually amazed at the sheer number of problems that the W211 cars have. The simplicity of a VW is so welcome compared to having owned MB stuff, but I understand the allure of the stately old MB wagon turbo diesel too...and I haven't brought myself to dump the huge W140 300SD I own even though I haven't touched it in ages. The W211...it drives very well but it's economy is not that great due to the 6 cylinder and with MT it's rather boring.

 

[thechoochlyman]

Give this B4V GLX a look.

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