Solar thread

[turbobrick240]

this thread is funny…

I thought solar was about reducing carbon emissions? Musk says In the BIG picture EV and solar Would reduce carbon emissions. I mean duh, BUT it’s too late? I know several years ago there was a thing called a Tesla battery that was supposed to be cheap. I don’t hear much about it these days. But the idea was it everybody’s house was going to be covered in solar panels and they have their own battery in it. And then your car charging would be free. Then again we have to buy more copper nickel cobalt and silver? So the manufacturing of the solar panels what will that do to the earths systems? this one better than the other? His life just a simulation? Can I get a reset button? Nope it’s too late!

So some will suffer the change, others will be forced to change, and others will blindly follow. The us still gets 60% of its power from burning coal. Here in Washington they are decommissioning dams, and one of the local power agencies just had a company put a bid in for a proposal bit of nuclear power plant. Apparently for the big power company‘s solar panels just don’t do it.

Yet, they do charge a lot of money for their power, and as I mentioned here in my state dams are being decommissioned and in three more years the contract that Washington gets the majority of their power from will be expiring. And then California will be bidding on that same power a majority of which actually comes from a company out of Idaho. The Bonneville power company. They recently decommission their largest power providing damn. So, the people of Washington are about to see an increase in power, and so are the people in Idaho.

I don't know why you're so fixated on Musk and Tesla. You don't have to be a fan of either to appreciate the energy independence you can achieve with a solar installation. Stick it to the man and be your own energy provider!

 

[dhangejr]

seems to me you are “ fixated on musk and Tesla “

I merely mentioned musk whom has been the leader of Tesla once each…in the same breath. It is using others peoples facts and data to support my claim. The Tesla battery was allegedly going to help you stick it to the man… But hey the rest of what I say has zero do with them and everything with the politics that allow the man to stick it to you, then again you ur not reading enough of what i have to say to see that.you see one word and become triggered to confront me about musk snd Tesla? Might go read what I wrote again…

I also don’t know why peole are so fixated on attacking others words instead of simple reading them , maybe re read them ? Hey, is Americans are so busy bickering snd fighting each other that were being divided and conquered…IE controlled by “the man” good job you detailed a topic again ! So now let’s take the glasses off and argue about nonsense instead of having an intelligent conversation.

 

[Mongler98]

It is funny though... that all power on this earth is solar or lunar.
Other ot grew from the sun and became fuel... or the sun is making the wind blow..or push fresh water for hydro. or the moon pulling tides
Technically wind, hydro, and fissile fuels are all solar power!

 

[turbobrick240]

It is funny though... that all power on this earth is solar or lunar.
Other ot grew from the sun and became fuel... or the sun is making the wind blow..or push fresh water for hydro. or the moon pulling tides
Technically wind, hydro, and fissile fuels are all solar power!

The vast majority of energy on Earth is ultimately derived from the sun. Nuclear, geothermal, and gravitational(including tidal) are the only exceptions that I'm aware of. Other than miniscule amounts of radiation from other stars.

 

[nwdiver]

The vast majority of energy on Earth is ultimately derived from the sun. Nuclear, geothermal, and gravitational(including tidal) are the only exceptions that I'm aware of. Other than miniscule amounts of radiation from other stars.

I find it odd that anyone would prefer to collect that energy AFTER the hefty thermodynamic tax. I get ~1kWh/sq meter/day from my roof. Choose anything other than solar and it's >90% less. Would you prefer $0.50 or $10? Add in the efficiency of electric and the gap widens to ~99.9% less with biofuel =>ICE vs PV => EV. $0.01 or $10

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I put solar on my garage 9 years ago. It cost about $16,000, less a $2,000 state rebate and an $8,500 federal tax credit, which I was able to use. This is a rough number because my electric use has fluctuated over the years and rates have gone up, but I've saved about $20,000 in electric bills. And I've received about $1,500-1,800 in carbon credit payments annually for the past nine years. So overall I've saved or been paid somewhere around $35,000 for having solar, and my net cost for the array was a little over $6K. The array just about covers all my home's needs. I do occasionally get small bills in the winter if my summer A/C use has been heavy. The array has required no maintenance in the time it's been operating, and has been 100% reliable.

I do have net metering. I question what value it provides my power company: I think of it more as a subsidy to me than providing power to them. Either way, I certainly don't mind.

Eventually I hope to build a home that has a net zero energy use footprint. Solar is certainly going to be part of that. Even here in New England I'd be hard pressed to see why someone would not have some form of solar generation, except where siting issues prevent it. I wish we could put panels on the roof at the IDParts warehouse. It would probably cover most of our power needs, as we use the space in the daytime. But we are renting the building and it has both a fragile roof and an unreceptive owner.

 

[Mongler98]

Yep. And when you need to replace your roof every 25 years.... it's all got to be done again.... eating a large portion of your profits.

 

[turbobrick240]

With the amount IBW will have saved over 25 years, he could probably reroof, repanel, and build another garage. Then start the savings cycle all over again.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

First, the roof that the solar is on is totally covered by the panels. So I expect it will last a lot longer than 25 years. It was only about 5 years old when I installed the system. Second, I would expect the panels would need replacement before then. Given the payback on this system was about 4 years, I'm still ahead of the curve. And replacement panels will likely cost less than the ones I have now. And I'd have to replace the panels only, most likely, not the wiring and the metering hardware.

We're having a brief spike in temperatures yesterday and today, unseasonable for May (if anything is unseasonable any longer). The central air is running in my house, and I opened the pool this week so the pump is running. I've got a dehumidifier running, too. And it's costing me nothing. I like that.

 

[nwdiver]

I do have net metering. I question what value it provides my power company: I think of it more as a subsidy to me than providing power to them. Either way, I certainly don't mind.

There's a great book called 'The Grid' that outlines the history of our electric infrastructure. John Oliver also covered this in last weeks episode. Because utilities are monopolies the real question should be does this benefit rate payers with cheaper, more reliable electricity and the answer is an unequivocal 'yes'. If rooftop solar means PJM no longer needs to invest $400M in another transmission line or another $1B in another GW of generation that's bad for PJM but good for rate payers. The business model of utilities is 'build and grow'. Their primary source of revenue is building more infrastructure and passing that cost on to rate payers.

There's a good chance your panels are still going to be working fine into their 40s. We recently installed a similar sized system to mine near my house so I have a good basis for my own systems performance. After nearly 10 years it's producing on par with a brand new system.

 

[Mongler98]

What? Lol no. Even in 100% shade... a typical ashfault single system will not last much longer than 25 to 30. It's the heat cycles and having it covered so moss and moisture can stay longer is just as bad as full sun.
Just keep trying to sell your tuna ....

 

[turbobrick240]

What's your point? Assuming the roof is asphalt shingles, it would need replacement eventually, regardless. Being protected from the sun by panels is likely going to extend the lifespan. When the time comes, he can put up new panels and sell or donate the old ones. Or ground mount them for extra capacity. Isn't there some other thread you could go troll?

 

[Mongler98]

What's your point? Assuming the roof is asphalt shingles, it would need replacement eventually, regardless. Being protected from the sun by panels is likely going to extend the lifespan. When the time comes, he can put up new panels and sell or donate the old ones. Or ground mount them for extra capacity. Isn't there some other thread you could go troll?

Oh boy.
So your saying it's ok to spend an additional 25k when it it time for a new roof? When you save 10 grand over that time frame? 10 grand over 30 years... is a really terrible investment and most consider it a rounding error.
It's nice that people do bit the savings is a drop in the bucket. Usually about 1 months income over 10 years. Aka a waste of time. You could do much better with that money.
Tell me I'm trolling again.. I dare you.

 

[turbobrick240]

He's already saved $35k in the 9 years he's had his installation. Who knows how much more he'll save over the next 10-20. If you bothered to read the posts rather than have the knee jerk "solar bad" reaction, you'd have caught that. Your fabricating random numbers out of thin air shouldn't impress anyone.

 

[nwdiver]

What? Lol no. Even in 100% shade... a typical ashfault single system will not last much longer than 25 to 30. It's the heat cycles and having it covered so moss and moisture can stay longer is just as bad as full sun.
Just keep trying to sell your tuna ....

???? Who said the shingles will last 40 years. I said the PANELS can. And it’s not $25k to remove and re-install solar. Usually ~$10k.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I don't think an approx. 6x return in 10 years is a bad investment at all. And I read an article yesterday that my local utility expects to increase electric rates 16% this summer because electric production in this area is heavily dependent on natural gas. I like being protected from those increases.

 

[vandermic07]

IndigoBlueWagon

How many kW is your system? How many Kwh's does your house consume in a month on AVG?

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

System is 6kW. Last year it produced 5.96 MWh, and I used a little more than that. We had a hot summer and my daughter was here and working at home, so the A/C ran a lot. If A/C usage is less I have enough credits via net metering to get through the Dec/Jan low production months. There are a lot of trees where I live and the production days are short when the sun is low.

I just looked back and when the system was new it was generating about 7MWh. I don't know if the drop is weather, shade (trees grow) or degradation of the panels. Honestly this is the first time I've looked at the historical trends. I think it's shade. Not much I can do about it, the trees that shorten the generating day aren't on my land.

 

[vandermic07]

IndigoBlueWagon

Thanks for sharing. I'm not that far off from you since I consume 5.4MWh per year although I'm in a slightly less sunny area than you according to link below. Gives me some more confidence in sizing my system. I think I will need at least a 7.5 kw system to eliminate my bill with credits.

Solar Resource Maps and Data

www.nrel.gov

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Sounds about right. I was a little disturbed by the drop in production, but I guess between shade and panel aging it's not bad. I'd like to add some more capacity if possible. I have a roof that's angled more East than South, although it's in a sunnier part of the property. Or I could put some free standing panels in a sunny corner of my yard. My town is considering banning panel installations that aren't on a building because some neighbors have complained about ugly installations. So if I want to put up free standing ones I may need to do it soon.

 

[turbobrick240]

I find those NREL solar radiation maps very interesting. They give you a good sense of how much terrain effects weather patterns. For instance, there's an area in the Apache National Forest on the Arizona/New Mexico border that gets less solar radiation on average in July than my place in Maine. Of course averaged out over the entire year that area gets far more sun than I do here.

 

[vandermic07]

It was very interesting to see the individual months. Dec and Jan, almost the whole lower 48 is at the lowest level.

I got a nice sized SSW facing roof. I could probably get 25 panels on it, with room between rows for access. There are some trees SSW but I could trim or cut them down if they caused problems. They wont have leaves on them in the winter so I should be ok there.

Once i get rid of my mortgage, i should be able to pile up cash to do this in 9-12 months. by then, i think the prices should be better and there should be better/cheaper battery technology.

 

[tikal]

I think the topic is tangentially related to automotive as there is new ways to make a EV work as a back battery (V2H o bi-directional charging discussed here).

In SE Texas I am definitively in the minority of installing solar panels recently or even in the past. I did a fair amount of research starting in summer of 2021 and I decided against buying surplus hardware and so forth. It was not for me. I got a few companies to bid for the installation (5.6 kW system) and the best offer from a larger solar panel company was $2.50/watt out the door before any rebates and so forth. At the same time I was in a conversation with another local company I found through CED Greentech in San Antonio that was offering a 30 year extended warranty through Solarinsure (backed by Lloyd's of London). Bottom line I was able to sign the contract at a price below $2.50/watt! I doubt you can get the same cost per watt given the same conditions right now. For a non-DIY PV system and with extended warranty, I think if you can get somewhere close to $2.75/watt installed you are doing good (Emphase is going to be more expensive than Solaredge in my view). This is for my area.

Now the whole process was not without a glitch. There system was originally mis-wired and later corrected (Solaredge based PV system). I lost production between January 10 and the end of March 2022 of this year as a result. The other bigger issue was that I needed a new roof that had damage from previous storms in 2021. Fortunately my claim was accepted by the insurance company and it covered the un-installing and installing of the solar panels. Yes I had to pay the deductible but I would have to do that with or without solar panels

So pay big attention to the condition of the roof before going forward with a new PV system and read the fine print of your homeowners insurance policy regarding solar panels coverage. Specially for those leaving in areas of sever inclement weather (mid-west, Gulf coast, fire prone areas, etc.)

So this is my story. Now I have new roof and new solar panels/PV system working as it should!

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I'm surprised that more people aren't installing solar where you live. First, you get more sun than we do in the Northeast, and second, you have higher A/C costs. You could also run a heat pump with solar and heat your house when needed, which is more difficult here.

How big is your house? How much of your electrical demand is met by the solar panels? Does your utility offer net metering? Just curious.

 

[Mongler98]

Most people like the way a home looks without all that junk on the roof.
Homes have less curb appeal and less value when they look like that . .
Imo it's like driving a Prius so everyone can know how much of a hippy you are!

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I agree. You can't see the solar on my house from anywhere on my property. Or from the street. One neighbor can see it if they look way up.

Lots of TDIs, no solar It's on the right side of the garage in the foreground.

 

[turbobrick240]

I think it looks fine. Unless you live in a nasty HOA or nosey historic district, it doesn't much matter what some busybody thinks. Shoot, the landscape would look much better without roads, powerlines, and houses to begin with. I'll take panels on roofs over a smoggy haze of pollution in the air any day.

 

[tikal]

I'm surprised that more people aren't installing solar where you live. First, you get more sun than we do in the Northeast, and second, you have higher A/C costs. You could also run a heat pump with solar and heat your house when needed, which is more difficult here.

How big is your house? How much of your electrical demand is met by the solar panels? Does your utility offer net metering? Just curious.

2125 sq ft. We have in general a well-insulated house in terms of the windows (double pane argon filled). There is net metering offered in our area. This should cover most of our electrical needs, on average, as I expect to bank credits in the winter time to use in the summer. Not one for one but better than nothing like some other states/areas do not have at all. In general terms electrical rates have been low in our area. Before the solar panels were installed, I was averaging around 8 to 9 cents a kWh for many years. I had to switch providers from time to time to get the lowest rate and that was an added inconvenience. However, after the winter storm of February 2021, it got me thinking that rates are going to eventually go up and perhaps way up in the next ten years and beyond. So for the family this is a way the hedge our bets against inflation for household energy usage. We still have natural gas for the water heater, the furnace and stove. Those I am not planning to replace anytime soon. Our AC has a SEER of 17 to 18.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

If those are your electric rates it makes more sense that people aren't investing in solar. Here rates have been around $.23/kWh, going to $.25 or so this summer. So the payback is pretty significant.

 

[Mongler98]

I think it looks fine. Unless you live in a nasty HOA or nosey historic district, it doesn't much matter what some busybody thinks. Shoot, the landscape would look much better without roads, powerlines, and houses to begin with. I'll take panels on roofs over a smoggy haze of pollution in the air any day.

People dont buy power lines or road... they do homes....