Newb / rookie question. Which would be best? Non "fixed", partially "fixed" or both "fixes"

schwinn guy

Active member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Location
Chicago 'burbs
TDI
2001 Golf GL 5 speed
I'm sure to get multiple opinions, but here it goes.
On a 2015, what would be most preferred? A non VW modified / emissions fixed vehicle, only the 1st phase done, or both phases complete?
As others have mentioned, there is almost too much information on this great site!
Thanks
 

DivineChaos

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Location
Minnesota
TDI
mk6 jetta sportwagen tdi
I'm sure to get multiple opinions, but here it goes.
On a 2015, what would be most preferred? A non VW modified / emissions fixed vehicle, only the 1st phase done, or both phases complete?
As others have mentioned, there is almost too much information on this great site!
Thanks
Non fixed any day of the week.
 

hskrdu

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 17, 2003
Location
Maryland and New England
TDI
2003 Golf GLS 4D 5M, 2015 GSW SE 6M
(She) test drove her 2015 GSW (CRUA) prior to any emissions work, but didn't commit because the dealer had to complete Phase 1 prior to sale (as you will find with all 2015s being sold by dealers). Upon returning to the dealer, driving the same loop, under similar conditions, she said "it feels a little quicker in the low rpms, has more punch in 3rd and 4th, and seems to idle more smoothly at stops." So you can take that as a Phase 1 win (and an indication of how bad the Audi software engineers were). The dreaded Phase 1 fuel economy hit? Yeah, the first trip (mostly secondary roads though New England) saw 545 miles on 10.991 gal for 49.632 mpg.

I would say Phase 2a (software and NOx sensors) feels a bit more sluggish in 1st-3rd, but no notable FE penalty.

Phase 2b provides a new DPF, and extends the emissions warranty, which might be a good reason to look for a car with only Ph1 (and have Ph2 completed at a later date).

It would be interesting to see where you could find a 2015 with zero emissions work done- I guess only from original owners?
 

schwinn guy

Active member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Location
Chicago 'burbs
TDI
2001 Golf GL 5 speed
What are the advantages of a non fixed model? Is there no DEF needed? What else?
Also, I was reading in another recent post about a purchased car only having phase one done, that there could be a cash incentive from VW on the table, as well as the added warranty once the work is done?
 
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hskrdu

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 17, 2003
Location
Maryland and New England
TDI
2003 Golf GLS 4D 5M, 2015 GSW SE 6M
What are the advantages of a non fixed model? Is there no DEF needed? What else?
Also, I was reading in another recent post about the a purchased car only having phase one done, that there could be a cash incentive from VW on the table, as well as the added warranty once the work is done?
The advantages might be:

The VW service department may have spent less time with the car.
The owner might be able to extend the emissions warranty be delaying Phase 2 emissions work.
The owner may be able to use Phase2b to obtain a new DPF later in the vehicle's service life.
The owner can choose to avoid the aspects of Phase2a/b which they might dislike.
You'll have to do the research but I think all chances of settlement cash closed in 2018.
 

TurboABA

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 24, 2010
Location
Kitchener, ON
TDI
RIP-2010 Jetta 6spd 2014 Touareg Execline
Need more details of what your actual options are (real or hypothetical).
Do you have the aptitude to diagnose and fix your own vehicle?
Do you have multiple modes of transportation if\when it craps out and it's out of commission?
What kind of ownership\use expectancy do you have in terms of lifespan?
Do you plan on leaving it as is, or deleting it\modifying it, etc.
 

schwinn guy

Active member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Location
Chicago 'burbs
TDI
2001 Golf GL 5 speed
Great questions.
I am in the market and was just wondering out loud if I actually ran into any that were not modified or only had partial Phases completed.
I do have the aptitude to diagnose and fix my own vehicle and as much as I hate to bring it to the stealership for service of any kind, if they are paying for the repair under warranty, I can stomach that pain a lot easier.
After the warranty issue, getting the best fuel mileage is #1 on my list and being able to delete the DEF situation would fall into that cost saving category. I know it would have to be modified to delete the DEF. I really don't have any desire to modify the vehicle for performance reasons as I'm generally happy with the performance of these fuel sippers to begin with. ( If I wanted a GTI, I'd get another one! ) And I also know if I modify it to delete the DEF I would be voiding any emissions warranty.
Thanks again for all the input.
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
There are some who are trying to take advantage of the warranty for as long as possible and then consider deletion if/when needed/wanted. I wouldn't worry much about where it is at in the process as much as getting the best condition car I could. Finding one not touched would be unusual but not unheard of. You would probably include the dpf in that delete. Some have deleted and reported high mpg numbers, but that varies person to person.
 

TurboABA

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 24, 2010
Location
Kitchener, ON
TDI
RIP-2010 Jetta 6spd 2014 Touareg Execline
Great questions.
I am in the market and was just wondering out loud if I actually ran into any that were not modified or only had partial Phases completed.
I do have the aptitude to diagnose and fix my own vehicle and as much as I hate to bring it to the stealership for service of any kind, if they are paying for the repair under warranty, I can stomach that pain a lot easier.
After the warranty issue, getting the best fuel mileage is #1 on my list and being able to delete the DEF situation would fall into that cost saving category. I know it would have to be modified to delete the DEF. I really don't have any desire to modify the vehicle for performance reasons as I'm generally happy with the performance of these fuel sippers to begin with. ( If I wanted a GTI, I'd get another one! ) And I also know if I modify it to delete the DEF I would be voiding any emissions warranty.
Thanks again for all the input.
Let me see if I can comment on each scenario with my opinions (many others will disagree)

Scenario 1 - New, unregistered 2015 released for sale
This is going to be overpriced by $15k or more based on what we've recently seen pop up. Due to this factor alone, any potential FE savings go out the window. You're still buying a 7 year old car, just one that's been rotting somewhere for 7 years and has no milage on it. It's only good if you really want a TDI, as it's the last of them, and it's the latest gen engine. It's also good if you drive a lot and are willing to battle the dealership\VWoA when\if you need to take advantage of AEM warranty for the next 11y\162k miles.
You can read all about what's covered and other details in the official documentation.

Scenario 2 - Currently owned, infixed vehicle
This seems to be a bit of a stretch of me, as it would mean that a current owner has given up receiving AEM damage payments, and I cannot see any reason to turn down free money to keep a vehicle you wanted to keep longer and sell anyways (since it's not for sale), and you also probably turned down a very lucrative buyback option only to later sell the vehicle at a loss (as the current value of it won't be higher than what VWoA would've been offering on buyback.

Scenario 3 - Phase 1 Fixed
This is probably the most desirable situation, especially if you can find one that's only recently been fixed, so that you have the greatest amount of coverage left from the balance of the 5y\60k miles coverage. In this case, you run that out until you're near the end, at which point you go in for Phase 2 fix and basically reset the 5y\60k miles clock.

Scenario 4 - Phase 2 Fixed
This is the 2nd most desirable situation, and probably the most common and likely of the different options. You obviously want to grab one that's been fixed as recently as possible in order to maximize the amount of coverage left over.

Scenario 5 - AEM extended warranty expired
This is the one you want in terms of value, especially if you want to delete\mod it for power or FE.

Any of the fixes will eat into the original FE.
A virgin, non fixed unicorn will have the best FE without deletes.
Deletes on a vehicle that still had warranty, only make sense if you drive A LOT and do your own wrenching\fixing. It takes a lot of milage to have ROI from a few MPG improvement in FE while incurring fix costs when\if some otherwise AEM warranty covered component craps out.
Deletes on a non warranty vehicle make more sense as they improve FE and reduce problems going forward while at the same time removing some expensive components that will eventually need replacing.

Lastly, if you're really after the best FE, I would suggest that you look at some of the more recent gassers. There are many newer vehicles that can be in the same range as far as FE which will not only be newer and cost the same, but will more than likely result in lower fuel costs during ownership. Depending on your current area market, diesel might currently cost more than gas per gallon. This also becomes a factor.

Hope that helps.
 

schwinn guy

Active member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Location
Chicago 'burbs
TDI
2001 Golf GL 5 speed
Scenario 1 - New, unregistered 2015 released for sale
This is going to be overpriced by $15k or more based on what we've recently seen pop up. Due to this factor alone, any potential FE savings go out the window. You're still buying a 7 year old car, just one that's been rotting somewhere for 7 years and has no milage on it. It's only good if you really want a TDI, as it's the last of them, and it's the latest gen engine. It's also good if you drive a lot and are willing to battle the dealership\VWoA when\if you need to take advantage of AEM warranty for the next 11y\162k miles.
You can read all about what's covered and other details in the official documentation.
I've seen these and they pretty much are taking the temptation away by the ridiculous price tag they have placed on these TDI's and from what I've read here most seem to think it's also a joke and judging from the fact that the majority of these haven't sold in the last 7-8 weeks confirms the public thinks the same thing about a 7 year old "new" car.

Lastly, if you're really after the best FE, I would suggest that you look at some of the more recent gassers. There are many newer vehicles that can be in the same range as far as FE which will not only be newer and cost the same, but will more than likely result in lower fuel costs during ownership. Depending on your current area market, diesel might currently cost more than gas per gallon. This also becomes a factor.
Although fuel economy is my main goal as I'm driving for work and the less I spend, the more I keep AND I stated I wasn't really into doing any modifications for performance reasons ( especially if it effects longevity ) I do have to admit that I can't bring myself to drive a hybrid or anything really miserly boring because I'm still a true driver at heart and do love to actually drive the car and not feel like it's driving me. The hybrids I've driven are like driving an electric golf cart with A/C. I am addicted to the torque of these cars and that I can have some fun and smash the pedal when I want and drive a German engineered car that is responsive and handles as such. And yes, here in the Chicago area the diesel is usually more than gas but I've been driving VW diesels since 1979 and don't think that will change anytime soon.

Thank you for all the great information.
 

TurboABA

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 24, 2010
Location
Kitchener, ON
TDI
RIP-2010 Jetta 6spd 2014 Touareg Execline
Deletes have several effects. They make your vehicle illegal in most states, they improve FE, they reduce complexity and potential sources of issues, they remove some known sources of pending problems such as DEF heater\injector, EGR failure, intake carbon buildup, etc. It all comes down to what risks you want to take. You can risk tickets for being illegal, or you can risk potential failure out of pocket costs once the fix warranty is exhausted.
 

Sword_of_the_Spirit

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2021
Location
Dusselheim
TDI
All Makes
Unfixed times 2.0!!!!!!!

Emissions delio’s give something up to take something back. It’s a seesaw. Increase CO2 or increase Particulates……

Your car on the private party network will be worth a lot more. They drive and are reliably 100 different. Warranty for many who look at these cars isn’t even a plus (which for intents and purposes, is hit or miss and is known to kill your expensive DPF).

You only get one shot at how VW wanted you to drive that car….
 
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