Cupra R rear bushings - orientation?

[03TDICommuter]

Anyone have any idea whether these can be removed without l damaging them?

I think it would be difficult. You'll need to somehow clamp the rear swing arm bushing tube, while driving on the small plastic lip that is sticking out from the bushing. There's not much there to center on and pound against.

 

[Nuje]

Did we ever decide on what the proper orientation was for the Cupra bushings?
Looking at the OEM in the Jetta wagon I'm working on...

You can see the alignment "tab" (arrow below) is supposed to be pointing at the bottom weld point (like where the base of the spring is - dotted line), as stated in the Bentley manual (image from previous posts, flipped to maintain same orientation):

The two voids (marked by the red curved lines above) in the OEM bushing are centered around that alignment "tab".

So then, with the Cupra bushing...

...the analogous voids (filled with black grease, and don't show up at all on the above photo) are at the 12/6 o'clock positions, centered around the elongated sections of the hole.

Annnndddd, we can just barely make out markings at the 3-6-9-12 o'clock positions on the plastic housing (I think?).

Putting that all together, my take is that the Cupra bushing *should* be installed with the elongated hole pointing to that bottom weld point.
So, relative to the first (OEM) image...

...the Cupra bushing would be installed as follows:

Who's with me?

 

[bmwM5power]

Who's with me?

i think youre correct Nuje, even though IDparts told me orientation does not matter when I bought mine cupra bushings from them and they came in without any lines or markings whatsoever

 

[Nuje]

Finally got around to installing a set; had to get one of the "tube" sections of front wheel bearing press involved to pull the last part of the bushing through because it extends deeper than the cup of the tool (which only has deep recess in the centre).

 

[Jlane330]

Sorry to bump this thread...want to make sure I get this right the first time. I just pulled my bushings out of the box and Kerma marked them with a line on the side. The instructions on their website state to install the bushing with this line pointed towards the 6 o'clock weld bead (lower weld bead). Ok, easy enough, except it seems that this would put the bushing rotated 90 deg from posts #62 and #64 above. I pulled the large plastic cover off the ends of the bushing to confirm that the voids are aligned with the elongations in the hole (same as pictured in those posts).
Nuje, I was following your line of thinking and feel like you have it right, but this discrepancy with this scribed line brings questions on how to install it. It's strange that IDParts says the orientation doesn't matter (per a comment above).

Advice? The mystery continues...

EDIT: Ok, reread this entire thread and see others had the same confusion. I'm going to ignore the scribed line on the outside and install with the voids in the same location as the stock bushings coming out (essentially with the elongations vertical). I noticed something about the bushings that hasn't been mentioned, and wonder if it's a clue. The large plastic cap doesn't contact the rubber all around, there is a gap on opposing sides that aligns with the elongations. Could this be for drainage of water? With the voids in there, could the bushing trap water, and these gaps allow it to drain out? If so, it might make sense to locate those vertically, which corresponds to having the elongations also vertical.

 

[Nuje]

If it was a solid bushing, I don't think orientation would matter - similar to the Audi TT front LCA bushings.

Given that these bushings, while at first glance might appear solid, those grease-filled voids indicate to me that putting those voids in the same position as the factory bushings does matter. While water drainage may play a role, I think it has more to do with the the engineered torsion strength of the bushing - having some pliability to a certain point (the voids), and then more solid resistance at the "end" of the travel.

Pay attention to the installation procedure. Be sure to have the weight of the vehicle ("plus a person sitting in the back seat", I think it says) on the wheels before tightening those big long bolts so that the "normal" position of the bushing is not under too much stress, leading to early failure.

 

[Jlane330]

If it was a solid bushing, I don't think orientation would matter - similar to the Audi TT front LCA bushings.

I completely agree!

Given that these bushings, while at first glance might appear solid, those grease-filled voids indicate to me that putting those voids in the same position as the factory bushings does matter. While water drainage may play a role, I think it has more to do with the the engineered torsion strength of the bushing - having some pliability to a certain point (the voids), and then more solid resistance at the "end" of the travel.

I also agree that putting the voids in the same orientation as factory makes the most sense. This bushing is an odd design IMO given the rear axle gets loads from all 3 degrees of freedom. They have to control lateral loads (cornering), fore/aft (braking in forward and reverse), and vertical (probably the least loaded axis, but still loaded as a result of the spring/shock location). The voids are for compliance no doubt. The drainage thought was more related to the rubber flange design, although that could be there for clearance when twisting too.

Pay attention to the installation procedure. Be sure to have the weight of the vehicle ("plus a person sitting in the back seat", I think it says) on the wheels before tightening those big long bolts so that the "normal" position of the bushing is not under too much stress, leading to early failure.

Will do, thank you! This is very common when working with stock rubber bushings on all vehicles, you want as little stress in the bushing at normal ride height. It's pretty easy to accomplish with the car up on ramps, giving access under there to tighten everything up.

With all this said, I'd really like to know the logic as to why, if I follow the install directions and prescribed line that came with them, this would orient them 90 deg from stock. Doesn't make sense to me to put them in that way...

 

[PakProtector]

The brake fluid 'thing' is relatively easy; You prepare a block to hold the pedal down, then while your helper presses down, you open. You do not let the pedal back up until it is sealed back up. This is what the block is for. The MC's reservoir is cut out of circuit when the pedal is down. It will attempt to suck a bit of air up the line but as soon as the path open up you have fluid replacing the low pressure air. Small bubble at the far end to deal with...
cheers,
Douglas

 

[Nuje]

The brake fluid 'thing' is relatively easy; You prepare a block to hold the pedal down, then while your helper presses down, you open. You do not let the pedal back up until it is sealed back up. This is what the block is for. The MC's reservoir is cut out of circuit when the pedal is down. It will attempt to suck a bit of air up the line but as soon as the path open up you have fluid replacing the low pressure air. Small bubble at the far end to deal with...

Ummm....wrong thread...?

 

[PakProtector]

Ummm....wrong thread...?

not if you decide to take the beam out to put in bushings.
cheers,
Douglas

 

[Nuje]

Ahhh - got ya. Discussion here has been primarily been around (as the title would indicate) the orientation of the non-OEM style bushings, not so much on the mechanics of actually doing the R&R in general, and working around the brake hydraulic lines in particular.

I got around having to deal with that by simply using a Dremel wheel to cut a slot in the junction "holder" - maybe 4mm wide. Move the junction to the point where the steel hydraulic line is aligned with that slot you cut, pop the line out; put it back in when you put the beam back in. Locking slider thing still goes on and holds it in place.

 

[PakProtector]

Nuje, that is not a bad idea at all. For me I just leave the beam in place. those pieces can let the bushings go low enough to knock them out with a bushing splitter and an air hammer. Then the HF kit that was basically for front wheel bearings provides some puller/pusher bits to re-install the new Cupra bushings.

Very shortly I am doing this to my ALH car.
cheers,
Douglas

 

[krazykipa]

Not sure if this is the Cupra per sé, but I found this for the Leon Mk1 (built on VW Mk4 platform):

Hello, I just spent 8,40€ to make sure the above information is correct, and it seems to be out of date. Here is a screenshot from SEAT erWin Online for the latest workshop manual regarding rear axle bushing replacement on a 2003 Cupra R. It is translated from German to English but the image is what matters:

Screen Shot 2021-12-04 at 9.52.58 AM.png

• krazykipa
• Dec 4, 2021

 

[Nuje]

...the Cupra bushing would be installed as follows:

So, looks like, while I got the tilt angle (roughly) correct, I went the wrong direction.
Well, I guess when it fails in 100K km instead of 300K km, I'll have to take remember this thread.

Good job digging up that info - thanks for sacrificing the 8,40€ for the team.
(Great that they added a 1hr. fee instead of having to go for the $35 24hr iteration!)

 

[Jlane330]

Yes, thank you for those directions, that's very helpful. I assume the vertical line is set when the car is at ride height and the axle beam is in it's natural position while driving. I point that out because the VW weld locations are different, so need some sort of reference.

Looks like I got mine close to oriented correctly. My thought process was to put the voids on the top and bottom when at ride height. May not have rotated quite enough to match perfectly, but close. This makes me wonder why Kerma marks the bushings the way they do, the rotation would be WAY off if using their marks/instructions :-/

 

[bmwM5power]

im about to replace my bushings, so after so much debates do we have any consensus on what the correct orientation for the cupra bushings is? since they still have voids like OEM is it this?

or is it that?

 

[PakProtector]

I have three sets in with the AL slots lined up with the Jetta welds. No issue yet, and first among them is on 65,000 miles old and still feels solid.

Douglas

 

[bmwM5power]

i just removed the old factory bushings from my jetta , and to tell the truth i got even more confused. They are OEM part number 1J0501541E, but they dont quite look like the old ones pictured above, you dont really see any voids from the sides, they look solid from the sides, but when I pressed them out, the voids are there inside and they were oriented horizontally ( 9-3 oclock) position. AS far as I know nobody replaced them in the past, I got the car with 70k mi on it with the documented history of what was ever done to it. BTW, I looked at the cupra bushings I got from IDParts HERE , I have already contacted them regarding the absence of any lines, was told they were solid, but they are not, there are voids under the plastic caps, and the grease is all dried up there, do you guys know what grease I can use to regrease these?

 

[Zak99b5]

I’d use a dollop of wheel bearing grease.

im not sure it’s essential, tho.

With the Capra bushes, I would install them with the elongated slot perpendicular to the trailing arm. I’ve seen a bunch of diagrams and such for these, but the issue is the axle beam they are meant to go into is not exactly the same as the VW part. Some say the slot should tilt forward a little; others say to the rear a little.

There should be enough compliance in the rubber that a little off won’t matter. As long as the voids are in about the same position as the voids are in a (correctly) installed VW bush, it will be fine.

As for me, I’m going to install Whiteline poly bushes in my rear beam soon. I know poly theoretically isn’t a good material choice, but the ease of install plus no worries about orientation convinced me to try them out.

 

[Nuje]

I just remove the old factory bushings from my jetta , and to tell the truth i got even more confused. They are OEM part number 1J0501541E, but they dont quite look like the old ones pictured above, you dont really see any voids from the sides, they look solid from the sides, but when I pressed them out, the voids are there inside and they were oriented horizontally ( 9-3 oclock) position. AS far as I know nobody replaced them in the past, I got the car with 70k mi on it with the documented history of what was ever done to it. BTW, I looked at the cupra bushings I got from IDParts HERE , I have already contacted them regarding the absence of any lines, was told they were solid, but they are not, there are voids under the plastic caps, and the grease is all dried up there, do you guys know what grease I can use to regrease these?

Rubber and typical petroleum-based greases are known not to play well together.
(cf. coolant hoses that are in the realm of a leaky valve cover)

Are we sure it's supposed to be greasy-grease? And since when does normal grease "dry out"?
(I've got an open tube of grease that's been sitting in my garage for over a decade that's still as gooey as it was day1.)

Given that the OEM ones don't come with grease, I'd lean towards installing what you have as is; or if you did go with grease, find some synthetic stuff to put in there.

As for orientation, at this point.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[bmwM5power]

Rubber and typical petroleum-based greases are known not to play well together.
(cf. coolant hoses that are in the realm of a leaky valve cover)

Are we sure it's supposed to be greasy-grease? And since when does normal grease "dry out"?
(I've got an open tube of grease that's been sitting in my garage for over a decade that's still as gooey as it was day1.)

Given that the OEM ones don't come with grease, I'd lean towards installing what you have as is; or if you did go with grease, find some synthetic stuff to put in there.

As for orientation, at this point.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

i removed the plastic cover from cupra bushing and some shrunk brownish-blackish substance came out of the void, kind of crumbie stuff, I assumed there was supposed to be grease in there from your pics above, was wondering if I can put some silicone based one like dielectric type

 

[03TDICommuter]

Given that the OEM ones don't come with grease, I'd lean towards installing what you have as is; or if you did go with grease, find some synthetic stuff to put in there.

I think there's a TSB that if there is noise, to put grease in there. Not positive my memory is to be trusted though.

You don't need much grease but I do agree not to use something that isn't for rubber. I'd think beeswax would work or heavy silicone grease they use for urethane sway bar bushings.

 

[PakProtector]

Part of what appeals to me about the CupraR bushes is the end caps. The OE ones on my '04 looked jus' fine, but there was just the first evidence that there was substantial axial movement. I could just see where the thin rubber edge was kissing the mount. The R's have the solid end caps that prevent this.

If I could get well protected ball joints there, I most certainly would. What is available is not what I'd call 'ready for daily driver' usage and I bet they'd rattle a bit soon.
cheers,
Douglas

 

[afterthisnap]

I finally put in the pair of Cupra bushings I got from ID parts like, 3 or 4 years ago.

I only scanned the first 2 pages of this thread after a cursory google search and impacted them in with the slots aligned parallel with the welds. I definitely had to disconnect and re-bleed my brake lines. No biggie.

The old bushings didn't appear to be torn or collapsed, so I was surprised to notice a difference in steering with the cupras - especially in city hilly traffic. It's hard to explain but it feels like the rear tires are tracking the front steering inputs instead of just following the momentum of the wagon